posted
Here are some metrics for tense, person, and other aspects of periodicals currently on the newsstand. I'm willing to collect other types, too: what are people interested in knowing that I can find out?
Note: "Unusual" includes non-proportional items (i.e., those that don't add to 100%) and are as follows: - Strong Dialect - Abstract Main Character - Starts with Flashback - Main character is identified, but remains unnamed, in first paragraph in which referenced.
Started with dialogue: 0 = 0% First sentence contained MC name: 4 = 67%
Unusual: Heavy dialect (already counted): 1 = 17%
...
Analog Mar 07: 3rd / past: 5 = 100%
Unknown whether established or new: 5 = 100% Started with dialogue: 2 = 40% First sentence contained MC name: 5 = 100%
...
Realms of Fantasy Feb 07: 3rd / Past: 7 = 87.5% 1st / Past: 1 = 12.5%
Established: 8 = 100% Started with dialogue: 1 = 13% First sentence contained MC name: 5 = 63%
Unusual: Abstract main character: 1 ("circus") = 13%
-----
The following is based on 24 stories:
Totals (each group totals to 100%): First person: 7 = 29% Third person: 17 = 71%
Present tense: 2 = 8% Past tense: 22 = 92%
New writers: 3 = 13% Established writers: 14 = 58% Unknown: 7 = 29%
Other (need not total to 100%): Not 3rd/past: 8 = 33%
Heavy dialect: 1 = 4% Abstract main character: 1 = 4% Total Unusual: 2 = 8%
----------
If anyone wants to send me statistics for periodicals they subscribe to (or excellent speculative fiction magazines they run), please do and I'll update them here.
I'll add to this thread periodically, possibly changing format as I go to deal with the additional volume.
You may also be interested in the statistics gathered here from anthologies.
Regards, Oliver
[This message has been edited by oliverhouse (edited January 10, 2007).]
posted
It took me two glances just to figure out what was being processed...ain't numbers-crunching wonderful?
Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Right. And the beginning of metrics collection is always the worst, because you're not even sure you're collecting the right things. It may eventually bear some fruit, though.
Posts: 671 | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think about 75% of the stories we see in our slush pile are 1st person. I'm not a very big fan of 1st, but given numbers like that, it's inevitable that I publish a fair amount of it.
It's kind of a relief when I open a new story and it's not 1st.
Just sayin'.
I'll look through the last 4 issues sometime and post the stats.
posted
What Beth said brings about a question that needs to be asked when considering these metrics. Specifically, what percentage of first person stories get rejected compared to third person stories? Now, that's no fault of the statistics or the methods involved, nor is it saying that these figures aren't useful and interesting, it's just pointing out that this particular important bit of information isn't being represented here.
It reminds me of when I see statistics saying that driving while talking on a cell phone is less dangerous than driving while eating. The problem with the statistics that show this are that it is impossible to show a representative number of people who DON'T get in an accident while eating or talking on cell phones. All it shows is what people were doing when they had an accident, so the figures can't be guaranteed to be a true representation of the real life situation, even though they are accurate. The figures may be representative, or they may not. Statistics can only show and represent the frame the data comes from.
This is interesting though, and is useful within its scope. By no means do I mean to undermine the effort. Thanks for doing all the work, Oliver. Good luck with it.
[This message has been edited by luapc (edited December 31, 2006).]
posted
The thing that statistics can't show is whether the chosen person and tense made the story better or worse than it would have been otherwise, and that's what really matters.
Yes, using first person will generally reduce your chances of getting published. Anyone who has worked as a slushkiller will tell you that. But, properly used, first person is one of the most effective narrative devices available. I think that properly written first person has a better chance than third person, it just is far more difficult to use well.
I can't say the same thing about present tense, but I will say that Cherryh's zeroth person nontense prose is some of the most effective writing I've ever experienced. Yet there are those who disagree, and it's probably inimitable. I've certainly never managed to write anything halfway decent in her style. Also, Cherryh uses it in very small doses, most of her writing is in normal 3PLO. She rarely does more than a few paragraphs of her zeroth person nontense in any scene, and she only uses it in a minority of her scenes.
Writing is not a mechanical process, nor is critiquing. When I see a proper opening in first person, I don't bother to mention that I usually will nit first person openings because they aren't using the first person effectively. If anyone uses tense brilliantly rather than idiotically, I won't bother to mention that the tense is unusual. People who know how to use first person already know that it's not the easy choice and they know why. The same is doubly true of those who use unconventional tense to good effect.
When I point out that something isn't working, it isn't because of a statistic that says that kind of thing doesn't usually work, it's because it isn't working in the current instance, the one I'm talking about. I'm often willing to explain why it does or doesn't work in general, but usually it's more immediately useful to concentrate on why it doesn't work in a specific case and what can be done to fix it.
posted
Can you point me at somewhere that will demonstrate just what zeroth person nontense writing is?
Posts: 1469 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
Issue 4: 1st Present: 2 (25%) 1st Past: 2 (25%) 3rd Present: 1 (12.5%) 3rd Past: 2 (25%) Other (epistolary): 1 (12.5%) (I guess technically this is 1st person but it's different enough to note)
so ignoring for the moment all the fine points Survivor makes, there are some things that are worth noting here:
1. As I said, I see a lot of 1st person stories - if this showed a proportionate distribution extrapolated from the makeup of my slush, there should be a lot more 1st. These numbers show a bias toward 3rd in my selection process.
2. All of the 1st person present stories except one were written by the same author. She can pull it off well; others are not so lucky.
quote:2. All of the 1st person present stories except one were written by the same author. She can pull it off well; others are not so lucky.
Which goes to show, it depends a lot on the author's style and natural voice. David Gerrold writes almost exclusively in first person. I don't think I've ever seen a first person story by OSC. They might be out there, but the way he is a proponant of 3rd/past/limited, I doubt there are many.
For me personally, first person works well when I do humor, and third person works well for everythign else.
posted
Not much of Card's novel length work is first person, but he does have some first person stories. Eye for an Eye is an interesting example, because it's been through several rewrites since its initial publication.
Zeroth person nontense is what I decided to call an extreme stream of consciousness (or lack of same) which Cherryh uses in certain places in her work. A lot of people were expressing dislike for it, and I had to mention that I love it...when she does it. Basically, you just throw nouns and adjectives at the page without any attempt at grammar or even basic syntax. Sometimes a verb makes it through, but usually only after being rendered in the adjectival form.
posted
Updated first post with metrics from Realms of Fantasy.
Also, based on other discussions, added metrics for starting the story with dialogue (not just thought), having the main character named in the first sentence, and whether the author is new or established.
posted
Nearly every short story I've read lately, I've noticed the name of the character is the first word of the first sentence or very soon thereafter.
Sometimes I wonder if people float such ideas out there to 'cripple' new writers. Or maybe I'm being paraniod. Or maybe, somebody planted that idea in my head via a microchip. Perhaps, the CIA...
posted
Do you think it might have something to do with telling the reader who the story is about? Just a thought.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Funny you mention the CIA. All this time I was blaming the KGB. Now I feel like an idiot. I should have seen this cliche twist a mile away!!!!
Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
A nondescript vehicle will follow you for the next few days, and when it finds you around on a lon;ey corner, it will stop to er... reprise you of the situation...
Printer-friendly view of this topic
