Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » Why are Dwarves always Scottish?

   
Author Topic: Why are Dwarves always Scottish?
Laserlips
New Member
Member # 4760

 - posted      Profile for Laserlips   Email Laserlips         Edit/Delete Post 
No, seriously. From Lord of the Rings to Dragonlance to Eragon to Terry Brooks, Dwarves are from Scotland. Always. Expect kilts, expect beer, expect good Viking heritage. Heck, they even LOOK like vikings.

I want to know why this is. Scottish people aren't short and hairy, as far as I know. Why not French dwarves? Why not Irish dwarves? Why not German dwarves? Certainly if Dwarves have to be hopped up on testosterone, German will work just as well as Scottish. It's almost as cold.

I am given to understand that Scotsmen do not make a habit of living underground, marrying women with beards, or subsisting mainly on beer and gold (as does the stereotypical Dwarf). I may, of course, be wrong, but be suspicious of anyone from the Southern part of the Isle agreeing with this portrayal.

How did this start, and how can it be changed?


Posts: 4 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Alethea Kontis
Member
Member # 3748

 - posted      Profile for Alethea Kontis   Email Alethea Kontis         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not sure how purely Scottish it is, or if it is just heavily influenced by the working-class accent of Northern England and a long and rich history of coal mining.

Change it? Well, that's not really up to the writers, that's up to the movie directors.

Personally, I have an issue with every "foreign" person in a movie having a stilted British accent. Take "Troy" for instance -- if Brad Pitt had really spoken in a thick Greek accent with all its gutteral aitches, he wouldn't have been half as sexy. "Ever After" was set in France, but just about everybody spouted the King's English.

My friends and I have decided to call this default Hollywood accent "foreign."

Dwarves must just be from the mountains in the North of Foreign.


Posts: 110 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post 
I always took Tolkien's dwarves to be Northern / Germanic.

On the other hand, you know how the English feel about the Scots...


Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Marva
Member
Member # 3171

 - posted      Profile for Marva   Email Marva         Edit/Delete Post 
I always think of dwarves as Scandinavian. As you point out, they seem to be vikings. Vikings did not originate in Scotland.

I always think it's weird that Romans have highly cultivated British accents. What's up with that?


Posts: 153 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Spartan
Member
Member # 4662

 - posted      Profile for Spartan           Edit/Delete Post 
I've also always thought of dwarves as vikings. Cliches like that are annoying, but after awhile it just seems natural that all elves are sexy and have pointed ears, and that dwarves are short, have beards, and love mining.

The whole British accent thing is another cliche. Happily, it's one that I actually dig.


Posts: 27 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
Administrator
Member # 59

 - posted      Profile for Kathleen Dalton Woodbury   Email Kathleen Dalton Woodbury         Edit/Delete Post 
Another take:

As I understand it, when the Celts migrated to the Isles, they pushed the people who were already there (the Picts) to the north and west. Then the Saxons (Vikings) came and pushed the Celts further north and west, which pushed the Picts even further.

Some believe that the small size of the Picts, along with an ability to disappear into the wild easily, was the basis for the idea of the magical "little people."

So that gives you Scotland, to the north, where the "little people" survived the longest.

The Celts were not "little people" (cf. Chesterton's "Great Gaels of Ireland"), but the Picts were.

The people we think of as Scots now are Celts, by the way.


Posts: 8826 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Spaceman
New Member
Member # 9240

 - posted      Profile for Spaceman           Edit/Delete Post 
Besides, small Scottsmen save on kilt material.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Aug 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
Y'all left out the part about them being natural-born genius engineers
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Leigh
Member
Member # 2901

 - posted      Profile for Leigh   Email Leigh         Edit/Delete Post 
Movie directors go with what works and if having dwarves with Scottish accents works, then having dwarves with Scottish accents works. Cliche's are found everywhere and this is just another typical Hollywood cliche.

We all love cliche's anyway, so why change a good thing that we can't get "enough" of?


Posts: 384 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post 
Is it true what they say about what's under a dwarf's kilt?
Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
You know, this is the first time I've even come across a discussion of dwarves having kilts.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Inkwell
Member
Member # 1944

 - posted      Profile for Inkwell   Email Inkwell         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not sure if anyone has ever played the PC game called Warcraft III, but my cousin had it at one time and the dwarves said various things with a somewhat heavy Scottish brogue. Such as:

"It's not the size o' the hammer that counts, it's how you wield it."

Which seems to stereotypically sum up their being good with mining implements, possessing a somewhat risque sense of humor, and the aforementioned accent/language issue. So it's not just literature and film...the expansive video game industry is propagating the stereotype(s) as well.


Inkwell
-----------------
"The difference between a writer and someone who says they want to write is merely the width of a postage stamp."
-Anonymous


Posts: 366 | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post 
On ethnicity in entertainment media (a sidebar thought, and a more serious reply, too):

I read recently an book by the producer and head honcho of "Everybody Loves Raymond," Phil Rosenthal. While casting, he says that the network vetoed him casting other ethnic Italian New Yorkers to play the family of Ray Romano (actor) / Ray Barone (character), despite Romano being New York / Italian. Apparently the network suits thought it wouldn't play in Middle America if it were too ethnic. The end resulted in a funny-but-not-necessarily-believable mixed-ethnicity family. On a glance, it's hard to believe these people are related to each other. (A more thorough look lends more credence to the idea---they certainly behave towards each other like a family. I didn't appreciate the show as much when it was on but have found it lately growing on me.)

I think this kind of "ethnic neutering" plays across the entertainment media. Ethnic types that can't easily be pinned down as to place-of-origin get cast in parts like, say, the abovementioned dwarves. If the traditional Scotthsh stereotypes are played down, in this modern era, who would know except us suspicious and observant types?

(Noted in passing: "dwarves" is Tolkien's spelling---it was normally "dwarfs" before The Hobbit.)


Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
QuickSilver
Member
Member # 4683

 - posted      Profile for QuickSilver           Edit/Delete Post 
Didn't the dwarf in The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe have a northern Irish accent?
Posts: 18 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, it is important to remember that in real life, persons with dwarfism are dwarfs, not dwarves. And they aren't necessarily good miners, engineers, heavy drinkers, or axe-happy orc-killers.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Grandma_Jan
Member
Member # 4788

 - posted      Profile for Grandma_Jan           Edit/Delete Post 
As for all the foreign folk having British accents, I think this is the result of looking at folks speaking English in non-English-speaking European countries. I lived in Germany for some years - all the folks who spoke English had learned from British teachers, so they learned it with the accent attached!

And surely you all know that dwarves are smiths!


Posts: 12 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post 
There's a convention in Hollywood movies about Rome that the Romans speak [English] with upper class British accents while their slaves speak with American accents.
Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2