Hatrack River
Home † | † About Orson Scott Card † | † News & Reviews † | † OSC Library † | † Forums † | † Contact † | † Links
Research Area † | † Writing Lessons † | † Writers Workshops † | † OSC at SVU † | † Calendar † | † Store
E-mail this page
Hatrack River Writers Workshop Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » Sci-Fi book for the older crowd

   
Author Topic: Sci-Fi book for the older crowd
Rommel Fenrir Wolf II
Member
Member # 4199

 - posted      Profile for Rommel Fenrir Wolf II   Email Rommel Fenrir Wolf II         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here is something I donít get good answers for. I write short Sci-Fi stories, and working on a long series. The series I am working on is more written for the older crowd (18+)
And there is some adult content. When I finished a few years back with the first draft of the first book, out of 26 chapters there are 6 adult related paragraphs for lack of better wording throughout it. I tend to keep it to a paragraph with little details, but enough to know what is going on. Then abruptly end that part of the chapter then begin the next.
I put the draft on shelf until I could get more clear answers. I am still writing the series and always wondered how the reaction would be if it were ever to be finished and published. So far I only get criticized because of it.
Any thoughts?

Posts: 856 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RMatthewWare
Member
Member # 4831

 - posted      Profile for RMatthewWare   Email RMatthewWare         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It depends on what you mean by 'adult content'. I've seen some teen fantasy books that gets pretty racy. Not that I'm judging, I'm just saying.

Either way you'll have critics. My thought would be: would removing the scenes have a negative effect on the story. If no, then cut them. There's no use for language, sex, excessive gore or violence for no reason.

If the so called adult content is needed for the story, then keep it in no matter what people think. It's your story. If you don't tell it the way you see it, you're not doing it right.

Matt


Posts: 657 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Chaldea
Member
Member # 4707

 - posted      Profile for Chaldea   Email Chaldea         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't think there's anything wrong with adult content that it couldn't be included in your book, unless there is no build up to it, or no reason to warrant it. Just make sure the situation fits your characters' personalities and motivations. Also, I wouldn't put it at the end of whatever chapter every time and abruptly end that chapter. It will look like a glob of mud stuck to a white picket fence; you know, out of place. If it must be at the end of a chapter don't end abruptly, but transition into a suitable end for the chapter. Also, try to fit some of them into the chapters elsewhere, so that they're not all stuck on the end. It will look like you're trying to avoid the subject of sex. It IS sex you're talking about, right?
Posts: 75 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ray
Member
Member # 2415

 - posted      Profile for Ray   Email Ray         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Who's been criticizing you? Family, friends, or people you don't know well but opinions you trust? Examine your relationship with these reviewers and see how important it is to you that they approve of the story. Also, how useful is their input to the story on matters other than the "adult" parts. If it's valuable, take it into consideration, and if not, still take it into consideration, but know that it has little to do with the actual craft of writing. How comfortable your intended audience is with reading your story is a factor to its success.

After all, though your story may be geared towards a more adult crowd doesn't mean that all adults are going to approve. There's quite a few out there who don't like reading about violence, sex, or what-have-you, depending on their moral or comfort zone. If these are the people you're trying to reach, you may want to consider if these six spots are really that important to the story. If they still are, then keep them, although know it may turn off some of your audience. If they aren't, think about how much of their approval is still important to you, although in my case, if I'm not writing towards a particular group, I'm not gonna worry about what the rest have to say about my stuff.


Posts: 329 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, when I was a kid, I read a lot of the adult stuff---most of it just went over my head. (Some of it read better when I reread 'em at a much more advanced age.) Kids might need protection---but adults need certain stuff that they shouldn't be denied on the off-chance that kids might get to it.

Of course it depends on what the adult stuff is. A lot of times, "adult" is usually code for "sex" and nothing else seems to set off problems than "sex" in a book---except "dirty words," which may also be considered "adult."

You can write what you feel and leave it in. Or you can experiment and see what it looks like when you take it out. Or you can write something that doesn't have it.


Posts: 8279 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I had the grave misfortune of coming across Galaxy Angel Rune recently. I was like, "Galaxy Angels, woohoo!" And I started watching it. No Galaxy Angels. I watched all the way through the opening sequence, so enraged by the lack of Galaxy Angels that I couldn't really notice anything else except a general sense of lameness.

Being a reasonable person, I thought, "Well, while it certainly is understandable that I would be enraged by the lack of Galaxy Angels, given the title 'Galaxy Angel Rune', I should give myself a chance to calm down and watch this again with a calm prior understanding that it does not have Galaxy Angels in it." So I stopped there and gave it some time.

And watched it again, this time fully aware that there would be no Galaxy Angels, despite the title. And thus, being in a calm and rational state, I noticed something. The entire thing was apparently a lame attempt at "fan service". To which I can only say one thing.

It isn't FAN service if you don't have any FANS!!!


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rommel Fenrir Wolf II
Member
Member # 4199

 - posted      Profile for Rommel Fenrir Wolf II   Email Rommel Fenrir Wolf II         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What I am mainly concerned about is the sexual references. I donít want parents putting a ban on a book I write because of it. There are a lot of other things such as extreme valence, gore and harsh language during a combat a seen.
I have always liked combat in books but few relay depict what it is relay like. Especially when some one next to you gets shot up and they are cussing like a mad man and you are trying to save his life, but fail and feel guilty about it.
Rommel Fenrir Wolf II

Posts: 856 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rommel Fenrir Wolf II
Member
Member # 4199

 - posted      Profile for Rommel Fenrir Wolf II   Email Rommel Fenrir Wolf II         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
PS:

I usually get points from friends, who read a lot of Sci-Fi, and we talk on what we would like to read and more often than not it would be a Sci-Fi book with sex, and what real combat is like with all the blood and gore and cussing and total organized madness that it is. But it would also have to have a good plot behind it.
As for whom I am trying to write it for I donít know. I just took ideas from friendís long past and started writing. That was 3 years ago, and I have only spoken to one since.
As for who has been criticizing me mainly my family who donít like my writing style. Something to the affect of your writing will never sell, your writing this and your writing that, on and on.
I think they are the reason I never bothered publishing any thing I ever finished.

Come to think of it where did I put that drafts?
Rommel Fenrir Wolf II


Posts: 856 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Combat is different for everyone. Even the guilt and grief are different for everyone.

You use it to reveal your characters, in your story.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ray
Member
Member # 2415

 - posted      Profile for Ray   Email Ray         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Family support is nice, but if they're not interested in what you're doing, there's little you can do about it. If their criticisms are constructive and/or helpful and meant to improve what you're doing, pay attention. If not, decide if writing is what you really want to do, and if it still is, submit.

Survivor, did you watch the same episode or a different one?


Posts: 329 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I let my parents read what I was submitting to markets for the first year or so. They said it was "nice"---I thought it was "nice," too---but I didn't find it very helpful. (They've said they've read some of my much more recent Internet Fan Fiction---other than they seemed fascinated by one song lyric parody they had little to say about it.)

The only thing I've written that they ever went over extensively was a statement I had to submit for a grievance procedure at work. (My job was at stake---I had already been tossed out at that point.) I wrote up what had happened---they said change this sentence, change that sentence, take out this---and it might have been a satisfactory statement for a grievance, but as literary effort, all the juice was sucked out of it. (It was never used in the case---I got back in anyway.)

But after that, I've been reluctant to ask them for literary advice. They know I still write, but I don't tell them what I'm working on as I write it. And I don't pay much attention when they say I should write something, for example, "like Harry Potter." I'm already trying to figure that out---I don't need them to rub it in.


Posts: 8279 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RMatthewWare
Member
Member # 4831

 - posted      Profile for RMatthewWare   Email RMatthewWare         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think getting a book banned would be the highest honor for a reader. Seriously, look for books that have been banned and you'll see its a good bunch of books.

When it comes to showing 'real sex', 'real violence', 'real life', you have to be careful. I think a lot of people don't want it 'real'. I never saw Saving Private Ryan because I didn't want to see the reality of war. Reality shows don't actually show what life really is, and I guess real sex is whatever you define it as. It's hard to try to be real in the sense that everyone lives their life in a different way. You just have to see what is best for the story and does what you're writing make sense for the story. You don't write violence because you want people to know what it's like, you write it because its necessary to the story.

Matt


Posts: 657 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RMatthewWare
Member
Member # 4831

 - posted      Profile for RMatthewWare   Email RMatthewWare         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Another word on sex.

I HATE watching a movie and I see a sex scene thrown in that doesn't really affect the story. You can tell it's there to get attention or get more people to watch the movie. It goes back to my pet peeve: don't do things that draw attention to the writing. Things should progress naturally. If your story draws to a point that the characters should consummate their relationship, that's when you can decide to include the sex and whether it's graphic or subtle. But just to put it in for the sake of sex bothers me.

Matt


Posts: 657 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kings_falcon
Member
Member # 3261

 - posted      Profile for kings_falcon   Email kings_falcon         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As long as the adult scenes are consitent with the story, it will be fine. There is a "new" trend in fantasy romance, generally the vampire/ werewolf/ supernatural creature in modern settings, where sex is an integral part of the story.

Linda Hamilton's series (newest book in it is Mistral's Kiss) the world in which the MC lives is premised on, among other things, the MC's need to have sex to find her mate, and conceive before she can inherit the kingdom. If her half brother impregants someone first, he inherits.

Sherrilyn Kenyon's werewolves in her fantasy books have to have sex to find thier mates.

Frankly, the crossovers (fantasy/romance) are currently selling very well. There's no reason a Sci Fi/ Romance shouldn't work.

I mind "adult content" when it's thrown in for the "ratings" as it were. If it's plot or character related, it won't bother me.


Posts: 1210 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rommel Fenrir Wolf II
Member
Member # 4199

 - posted      Profile for Rommel Fenrir Wolf II   Email Rommel Fenrir Wolf II         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The battle scenes are quite graphic. One of my favorite scene is when one of the fill-in characters had a arm blown off and was walking around holding it looking for the medic, when he found the medic a mortar shell came in and blew off his lower half and he was in to much shock to notice. He just said ďDoc I think you need to take a look at this.Ē Before he bit the dust. It goes on to describe the smell of death and smoke and the blood and parts of the solders flesh splattered on the face of the medic and how the medic came to find a sort of glory in it. That is an edited short and to the point scene (I just wonder about where it all comes from some times.)
As for the sex scenes they are just a paragraph each, they tie in only to the scene that the characters are trying to have children.
As for the ďnew trendĒ in fantasy romance never heard of it. But I do like books with vampire, werewolves, etc. I tried my hand at a short story involving werewolves once but got no were, but I came up with a totally different series idea from trying. I have something saved some were on a disk with my idea. (Like most of my writing) I still canít recall were I have put those damn disks, I should try cdís.
I see little Honor in having a book banned, in fact I see it as a total dishonor to me if such a thing was to happen, but if there are lot of good banned books I will have to look into it.
Rommel Fenrir Wolf II

Posts: 856 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Codeô is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2