posted
In my WIP it is past tense first person, however, sometimes I'll hit a line that reads better in present tense, and I'll allow it. Is this inconsitancy too disjointed and/or wrong? Or would you let it pass?
I know it sounds stupid when put in this context. But it's always in situations where the narrator isn't exposing action, he is thinking thoughts.
posted
Sometimes I come across this oddity as well, at least I think it's the same thing. Usually it happens when the POV character is thinking about whatever and comes to the point of *thinking* some common saying. Not only does this change the tense from past to present, but also tends to change it from 3rd person (my standard) to some other tense.
This is generally the result of 3rd person deep penetration, for me anyway, so that the character is actually thinking this common phrase, word for word, but the reader is inside the POV character's thought deep enough that no "he thought" tag is necessary.
A (silly) example: John slouched in his stool as the girl walked away. Here, he had thought he made a pretty good impression on that one. As another girl sat beside him at the bar, he plastered a smile across his face once more. If at first you don't succeed...
So "if at first you don't succeed," while technically a break into second person present tense, is actually just the reciting of a motto/slogan/saying/whatever you call it, within the POV's thoughts. Is this what you mean?
posted
Zero, perhaps an example of what you're seeing would help us to relate--or at least see if it matches our experiences.
I've struggled with this a bit, myself. When I first read <i>Characters and Viewpoint</i>, I experimented trying to get the concept down. I butchered a good story. The main character has never forgiven me.
My efforts, I think went a bit to far.
"Hanna sat on the couch, chewing her fingernails. What am I thinking? She looked at the clock on the wall."
(Impromptu example, but the extremity is actually pretty much what I was doing.)
I have at least learned it flows a bit better to tack on a simple, ", she thought" or something on the end. To me, it works better. But I have wondered about this, because I've seen pretty good writing that went pretty deep. I'm not sure how to achieve that without looking like a sloppy writer. Any thoughts, anyone?
posted
The narrative should remain pure and consistant in tense.
But in first person you can allow for the narrator to occasionally speak aside to the reader.
January 1993 was a bad month particlarly the last dat. It was a cold day. January is always cold, isn't it, but that day...
Be fully aware of what you are doing, that you are talking about the narrator breaking the flow of the story to talk directly to the reader, and you might be able to pull it off.
posted
I think that carefully controlled "slips" can add to the story, if they're not overdone and are justified within the context. I've seen this done well many times, as well as mixed other POVs together and such of the sort.
My point? There are IMHO no rules in writing craft - just techniques! I'd use what YOU personally feel is right and enjoy it!
(If you want evidence to back those statements, just look at Jack Vance--the guy broke about every "law" of craft, yet is lauded as one of the best)
[This message has been edited by Dulci (edited April 03, 2007).]
quote: This is generally the result of 3rd person deep penetration, for me anyway, so that the character is actually thinking this common phrase, word for word, but the reader is inside the POV character's thought deep enough that no "he thought" tag is necessary.
and
quote:
But in first person you can allow for the narrator to occasionally speak aside to the reader.
January 1993 was a bad month particlarly the last dat. It was a cold day. January is always cold, isn't it, but that day...
are that there is another way.
If the narrarative is so immersed in the character that you find yourself avoiding tags, the simple answer is to put the character's thoughts in ITALICS. When I read it this way, it is perfectly understandable to me, and doesn't break up the flow.
However, I wonder if Zero had this in mind?
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited April 03, 2007).]
Use italics or don't but be consistant. In first person you really should not use internal thought seperate from the narrative tense.
In third person, you can, with good skills, lapse into verbatim internal thought.
With first person we are already intimate with the narrator so you cannot change the tense other than to talk directly to the reader about something timeless to the story.
quote:Her mother brought the food and set it on the table in front of me. It was spagetti. I hate spagetti. I was polite so I took a small amount and ate it without grimacing too much.
your example
quote: I sat up, my head was throbbing. My back ached. I must sleep.
reads poorly. Add something to make it past tense:
quote: I sat up, my head was throbbing. My back ached. I must sleep, I thought.
or change it to maintain tense.
quote: I sat up, my head was throbbing. My back ached. I had to sleep.
or make it timeless:
quote: I sat up, my head was throbbing. My back ached. I'm not a machine; I must sleep.
posted
For the record I would probably say "I needed sleep." That was just a quick example.
Honestly, though, I am having difficulty distinguishing the difference between "I must sleep," and "I hate spaghetti." I suppose the latter is universally constant and the former is not...
posted
I too was thinking "I needed sleep" sounded better. This above with the timeless rule is what I aim for currently, which is not to say I achieve it perfectly.
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posted
Oooh - I like that rule of thumb too. If it was only true at the moment of the story, it has to maintain the tense of the story. If it's a universal truth (e.g., hating spaghetti) then it can break the tense rule, though it seems likely that it would be more sensible to try to work it into the tense of the story.
Meanwhile, I'm off to italicize my MC's thoughts and see if that lets me do away with her "she thought" tags, ooo how exciting!
It seems to be popular right now to have several povs in a novel. You know, the old one-per-chapter kind? BUT...but one pov is first person and the rest are all third!
I really hate that. And sometimes the verb tense changes with those povs. First person in present tense and the others are past. Argh!!!!
posted
I like consistency. Pick a method of telling your story and stick with it. Do you want to use a first person narrator? Great! Where and when is he telling the story? Once you settle that, use the existing rules in the English language to handle describing when something happened in relationship to now. (Time travel aside, we're pretty well equipped.)
I am writing to you now from the couch in my living room. Last night, when I first read this thread, I sat in the same spot on the couch. My son was acting up so I could not post at that time but now I am using the fact that I read this thread yesterday and am replying to it today to show you how tense works in first person point of view.
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