One of the things I remember about the story was a character who had, in order to make money on which to live, sold to a man the privilege of dislocating her joints and resetting them for money. The point of view character in the scene in which this was disclosed, if I remember correctly, was the character's roommate, and she was appalled to realize what her friend had been doing for money.

The reason I bring this up here and now is that I managed to dislocate the little finger on my right hand last Friday. I was carrying a box of books from one room to another and somehow started to drop the box. After I had caught it and laid it on the floor, I looked at my hand and saw my little finger bending at the middle joint away from the rest of my fingers.

I grabbed at it, thinking I'd broken it, and it popped back into place.

My finger is now very swollen and very bruised. From my reading of SLOW RIVER, I would not have thought there would be much evidence of the dislocation (the roommate could tell her friend was in pain, but had no idea--I don't remember any bruising or swelling in the description).

Now, from my own experience, I have not only learned about the bruising and the swelling, but I have also learned about the contribution my little finger gives to what my right hand does, as well as how this injury has affected the strength of my right hand. I have also learned just how fragile my little finger joint is.

(In case you are wondering, it hasn't kept me from being able to type.)

So, please keep asking questions about things you haven't experienced, so that you don't have to experience them in order to be able to write about them believably. Someone here on this forum may have had the experience you need to know about.

Agreed, the same injury is different for different people, and different injuries can be different for the same person. Also, did the book go into the character possibly being double-jointed, or the joints actually being altered by repeated injury? There was an episode of "Emergency!" titled "The Lighter-than-Air Man" in which the title character had dislocated a shoulder in a circus injury, after which he was able to dislocate it at will. He was sort of doing the same thing, holding the so-called "responsible party" financially liable, but was busted through good detective work. No idea if anyone actually pulled this in real life, just saying there it is in another story. (By the way, TV shows are among the MOST unreliable as far as depicting the actual effects of injury--usually a character is up and around much sooner and better than they should be in real life.)

I wasn't completely shocked on learning that "The Education of Little Tree" was revealed as a hoax (originally an "autobiography" now labeled as fiction.) I was very surprised to see some people floating a watermelon in a river--as I had recently read the book in which this author wrote that he dropped a melon into a creek to keep it cold and it SANK. Also, the rattlesnake lore is completely bogus. It's true that people did cut open birds, or, as in "The Yearling," a deer's heart, to "drain" a rattlesnake wound, but completely untrue that this method actually does any "draining" and that the poison can be seen changing the animal part to blue or green. I now suspect every bit of lore in that book. Still a great piece of fiction, so well-written in many ways it's a shame it couldn't be true.

Back in High school I was on the wrestling team. I was a meager 215 lbs which at that time was the lowest weight of the heavy weight bracket. I was lean and strong, but I was not prepared for the monster I was wrestling for first/second place. He was every bit 275 (the max weight) and had about 3% body fat. I was pumped up I hadn't lost a match in two years and this was regional’s tournament. If I won here I was going to state.

His legs were tree-trunks and arms weren't much smaller. He was slow though, and I was very quick, so I went in for a double-leg take-down. Grabbing his heal to pull in towards my chest as I knee-walked towards him, trying to force him to fall to his back.

He sprawled. Kicked his legs back hard my finger trapped under his shoe twisted and cracked. My shoulder erupted with white hot pain and my elbow made a popping sound, like when you quarter a chicken. My breath vacated my lunges and refused to return.

At some point I passed out. As he pinned me his weight popped my shoulder back in and I screamed with renewed eruption of white hot pain burning through my back and chest.

Fifteen years later when I cough or sneeze it still hurts, as well as sever arthritis in that arm.

The only thing the really swelled noticeable was my little finger and ring finger. The joints bloomed dark purple and faded to sickly yellow over time. I still wake up with aches and pains during the night. Not to mention several disfiguring scars I can reminisce about.

I dislocated:

3 fingers
1 elbow
1 shoulder
9 ribs
1 color bone
Jaw

And numerous re-dislocations over the past years.

Yeah, I don’t recommend it.

The worse injusry that I've had so far was taking a horse's head through my face, well, maybe that and the compression fracture to my lower back from falling off a horse.

For the first one, I was walking my mare and she spooked. Now, my mare has a quirk. She broke her neck as a yearling so when she takes off at a run, she tosses her head first. When she bolted, as far as I can figure out because I was alone when it happened, she tossed her head to the right pulling me into her left side. When she tossed her head to the left, well, I was in the way. Her poll, the bone at the crest of her head, hit my jaw, crashed through my mouth and across my face. What do I actually remember?

I felt her tense. I heard her head slam into mine but didn't see anything because I blacked out. Woke up a bit later. Realized I was lying on my back. Opened my eyes and lifted my head slightly to look for the mare. Saw her on the far side of the ring (about 80 feet away) and put my head back down. Took off my glove and put it to my face. Saw blood. Didn't feel anything. Shock can be a good thing. Realized I could start screaming and hope that some one in the office heard me or I could pass out and freeze to death as it was 15F out. I screamed. I thought I was being loud until someone found me, lifted me up and then he yelled. He made my ears ring. 10 hours later the ER release me.

(*** Gory details warning **)

- very sore jaw, slip bottom lip down to my chin requiring 20 sticches, shattered teeth, one missing tooth, one tooth that had to be relocated within the jaw (ten years later the tooth is still alive and good), broken nose, ripped eye lid (requiring another 8 stitches), entire right side of the face swollen up about 3 times normal, swelling on left side enough to close the eye.

End details

People with head injuries just don't get up right away and stay concious. You can talk with a split lip but it's not easy. Although it's somewhat clear (since I was babbling my fiance's name and work number and they understood me). People who lose teeth and/or split lips bleed a whole lot. Teeth can be relocated in the jaw. People in shock can still be capable of thinking. People in shock don't always feel the cold. Although being tied to an emergecy board when you can't see may cause panic. (A nice volunteer stayed with me). If the head injury is severe enough the concussion might not make you vomit until the next day . . but you will if you try to move. The black eyes from breaking your nose take some time to come up. Mine showed up the next day and were the first indication I had that the nose was broken. Horses can get "headaces" from hitting thier heads on something moderately hard like a human jaw.

I still have sinus issues from it.

Although, amazingly, you can still ride a horse over a jump (although it hurt like h#^% and I almost fell off again) after a compression fracture. The back didn't tighten up to the point where I couldn't walk for about an hour afterwards so I was able to drive back to campus and have a friend take me to the ER. The back injury is still an issue today and I have a lot of hip pain because of it.

I will put down or turn off any story that doesn't take into account the realities of those injuries.

My hospital experiences are limited to three. (1) Birth, which I don't remember. (2) Stitches to a chin cut when I was about seven, which I got falling onto the edge of a chair---a terrifying experience, where I was held down without explanation (to me) and had strange and painful procedures done to me. (3) Having an infected boil lanced about seven years ago now, where I understood what was going on and handled myself better.

Nothing else---not even the time I went through a plate glass window, 'cause I came out of that with only minor scratches.

This concerns me with my writing, 'cause my current novel and one of my file stories deals with characters with broken bones---how long would it take to heal up, how long should they be in the hospital, how long should they stay home from school or work or whatever, and so on? Having no real-life experience throws me. There must be reference guides that might tell me, but I haven't stumbled across them yet.

Tracy

Now where did I put that Ginsu....

Through karate I can tell you this: It takes more than a simple punch to the nose to break it, it takes more than a simple fall to break a rib though not much more, and it takes much more to knock someone out. I hate the way injuries are depicted in movies. Moving on...

I've broken my wrist and dislocated the broken bones when I was 9 rollerblading down a steep hill, popped my hip out of place when I was at karate, I have a slight tendon tear in my knee, I broke my right big toe on someones elbow through karate, I broken a toe by someone standing on it in karate, I've had my elbow almost dislocated by a fool in karate... I've got to stop doing karate Nah.

I honestly couldn't go through it in a single post, and I don't want to because on the one hand it would probably be an enormous derail, on the other hand I might accidentally offend somebody and I have no wish to. But basically when I was young my family was involved in a religious organization that is perfectly legitimate, though some have called a cult, but this particular congregation simply crossed the line. The full breadth of it we're only now, ten years after we left are coming to understand... There were conspiracies, lawsuits over pyramid schemes, and now we're finding out about sexual assaults. At 12 I was targeted in the congregation when they realized my understanding of the bible, cross referencing and researching, giving speeches and debating with others was I guess you could say a cut above the others, but I was also intensly shy. I had this intense crush on a girl I was growing up with, and had a best friend, but they were outside the faith and congregating with such people was against our religion. (no, we weren't mormon if that's what you're thinking) Also, the belief was strongly embedded in us that the world would end in 1997. So beyond the actual mental ilness I would develop later in life, I did experience and deeply depressing childhood. You might say, and my therapist agrees with this statement, that I in fact didn't experience one at all.

The reason I bring this up, the experience I had... I would have liked to have written that into my own book, but I didn't. The fact is it's still too painful for me, and the story I developed didn't follow along those lines. Still, some of that emotional anguish I went through I was able to channel into what I think are some very powerful scenes in the story. And I think thats a good thing, not that I had to go through all that, just that I understand painful emotions, because I've gone through them.

If there are any books with which I can identify, this will probably sound stupid or cliche or something, but it would have to be Enders Game, Speaker for the Dead, and Lost Echoes. Ender's Game because of the cultural group Ender is forced into(Battle School), and the heavy expectations that are laid down on him, how he feels abandoned and alone, and eventually is pushed so far that he feels like he's given up. Pretty much my life from 12 to 20. Then Speaker because of Ender's redemption, his search for truth in people and wish to make things right by making others understand their own internal and external conflicts. After leaving that religion I had to come to terms with myself and my place in the universe, and like Ender I came out of that whole mess not blaming anyone and only hating myself, and eventually had to find a way to be at peace with the world. And finally Lost Echoes, because the main character ends up going through something so truamatic that he basically develops a form of anxiety disorder, and self medicates himself to deal with it. The sad thing is these past three years since I started my book, medically I've gone through such complete hell that there are times.... Well let's just say I understand the bottle, the pills... I don't own a gun and every knife we own is dull because I know damn well there have been too many days when the thought of ending it all just comes far to easily.

I realize I just layed down a sap story, but I guess my point is, like Kathleen said, write about what you know, and if you need to know something, sometimes it's just better to let someone else experience it for you and then let them tell you about it. Because somethings, just for the sake of having the exprience, aren't worth experiencing.

Then...As I recall, the Millerites of 1844 checked their calculations and announced they had made a mistake, that the world would end later...and that they were forgiven for it.

But if you know anything about Hemingway's childhood, you'll know that he was as much to blame for his "bad" childhood as his over-domineering mother (if, she truly was over-domineering). Of every writer who has ever talked about his life or his writing habits, I distrust Hemingway the most. I won't call him a liar, but I will say that he wanted the world to have a certain image of him.

I, and I am sure several others, have appreciated the willingness of participants here to share their experiences in answer to questions.

Driving down the highway yesterday I blew a tire. Whilst changing it I ended up dislocating my shoulder. The same shoulder I dislocated in high school. I take back what I said about swelling, 'cause my whole left side is swollen and my trapisious muscle <sp?> feels sprained. I think if I put just the right pressure on my collar bone it would snap. I don’t think I tore any things but ill let the doctor decide on that.

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Agreed, the same injury is different for different people, and different injuries can be different for the same person. Also, did the book go into the character possibly being double-jointed, or the joints actually being altered by repeated injury? There was an episode of "Emergency!" titled "The Lighter-than-Air Man" in which the title character had dislocated a shoulder in a circus injury, after which he was able to dislocate it at will. He was sort of doing the same thing, holding the so-called "responsible party" financially liable, but was busted through good detective work. No idea if anyone actually pulled this in real life, just saying there it is in another story. (By the way, TV shows are among the MOST unreliable as far as depicting the actual effects of injury--usually a character is up and around much sooner and better than they should be in real life.)

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Repeat dislocation happens to people and it's not fun. I knew a guy who dislocated his shoulder every time he sneezed.

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Dislocations hurt though, swim team showed me that, but a physically fit person (especially high school athletes) may just write off or even ignore a large injury. I find that aspect very interesting.

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