posted
In a recent short story first 13, the writer vexed over the accurate price of a $750,000 Ferrari. This brings up the question of how much research time is really necessary on minutia.
In a public speaking class years ago, the teacher said if you are not sure how to pronounce a word, say your interpretation out loud and with confidence. People who know differently will doubt their own knowledge and accept it.
My question is this: Is it fair to apply a similar principle to fiction writing -- faking it with the insignificant stuff, like the price of a Ferrari, while properly researching the major facts?
posted
Isn't the price of a car a pretty easy thing to look up? There's confidence and then there is... I don't know what to call it, but it isn't good. But I'm not really the type to say a word I don't know how to pronounce. And sometimes even when I'm pretty sure how to pronounce something, I apologize just in case. Especially when that word is French. Frenish. Fwanch? Just a little hyperliteral joke for you there.
But I don't really know what it's like to be unable to pronounce a lot of words. That must be hell, and I guess people who have to deal with that situation have to decide how to deal with it. But to me, when someone says a long word, and says it wrong, and says it boldly, I feel very embarassed for them, moreso than if they admitted they didn't know. But I think that's just my personality.
How this applies to writing? I guess my way might not be right because I haven't managed to get published yet. Though I think I'm growing out of feeling like I can get things just right.
posted
How much does it affect the story? Some minor details might not matter. Some Ferrari might cost $750,000. I don't know, but even if it does seem a bit too much to me--and it does--I'm willing to believe it must be some special edition or it has some kind of custom work.
On the other hand, if it is a hard science fiction story, and you have ships darting around from solar system to solar system in minutes, your story will probably suffer if you don't do some research on how that might be possible. There's a reason I don't right hard science fiction--I'm too lazy.
So, I think it is best to consider how important the research might be to your WiP and go from there.
As an example, a story I'm considering is set in the old west period. The character has a rifle and a horse, and there are a few details I want to include to make it authentic--but the story isn't about the rifle and the horse, so I'm not going to burn up weeks learning about those things before I write the story.
posted
When it comes to small details, a lot of people will just assume you're right. The few that realize you are wrong might think you're stupid, but oh well. You just do what you can and move on.
I remember watching a show where one of the episodes took place in Nevada, Missouri. I live in Missouri, and I know that Nevada is pronounced neh-vay-duh, not the same way you pronounce the state. The show screwed it up. But then again, unless you're from Missouri, how would you know. If the entire series took place there, then yeah, I'd expect people to do a lot more research, but it was just one episode.
My tactic is to ignore a lot of figures, or try to use generalizations. If I don't want to look up how much a Ferrari costs, I'll either say it's a 6-figure car, or I can say it's a $500,000 sports car, and not worry about the brand.
posted
Luckily a couple critiquers suggested abandoning the cost of the car, so I get to dodge out of this one entirely! As one pointed out - it's rather redundant to obsess about the cost of the car unless the cost is particularly meaningful (in my story, it isn't, it's just something for the MC to get mad about being wrecked - she'd be mad whether it was a 50k car or a 750k car.)
However, your post raises a great point that I've been mulling over - that is, how accurate do you need to be? How much license can you take with details? How much can you "reason away" in your story because "well, it's set in the future" or "it's on an alternate-history planet Earth" or something else? Is that a cop-out, or a reasonable thing?
I ask because my whole clone story has the premise of growth-acceleration and memory-downloading capabilities for the cloning storyline I've got to work. Someone I know suggested that I had to have some solid medical/factual basis for my theories or no sci-fi reader would take me seriously. I disagree. I don't plan to go into ANY details about the technologies/facts at all other than to reference that growth-acceleration and memory-downloading have taken place. Maybe have the characters make some mention of how great the technical advances are, or some such, because my story isn't about some nifty cloning technology or memory-downloading ability. It's about what happens when someone is faced with a LITERAL mirror.
I think this kind of thing happens a lot in sci-fi, and was really shocked by the feedback from this one person (not here, someone from a bookstore writing group.)
That being said details are always Character context driven.
If in the $750,000 Ferrari example if its Joe/Jennifer Public saying "that car's almost a million dollars" that in my opinion is ok.
If its a salesperson I believe it adds depth of character for them to say "Oh that model has a base price of 500,000 but this particular vehicle is 750,000"
Character Context always dominates my need as a reader for accurate details.
In a nutshell, the novice can be vague the master needs to be exact.
posted
In my opinion (whatever that's worth), numbers are only good in your story if the numbers themselves mean something to the story. I mentioned to KayTi that specifying how much the Ferrari was worth was redundant - a Ferrari was wrecked. No such thing as a cheap Ferrari in my estimation. Same goes for a lot of things. If you're in an epic battle scene and your arms is 10,000 men strong, it is important to know that the opposing army is 20,000 men strong. it is unimportant to know they are 21,657 strong, however. 20,000 is sufficient.
Stephen King made a great point. Research is good and all, but research is not story, no matter how in love with it you are. You tell your story, and leave the detail in the background. However, I would assert that you must do what you can to make your details accurate in a book. When public speaking, continuing along if you are unsure of yourself lends a certain authority to your lecture, and no one is likely to stop you to research a particular point, or offer conjecture. Getting a detail wrong in a book means a reader can pause and research what they think you've done wrong. They can stop and argue with you, and you're not there to debate your point of view with them. And missing a key fact in writing can ruin your credibility, which will lose you readers quick.
posted
I'm inclined to say "details matter." I think it's gotta be right---but I write my stories first and ask questions later. My current novel is ostensibly set in the late 1940s---I litter the writing with notes on "check this," "check that," "were there home hair dye kits in 1947, and what came in them?" or "would someone in 1947 ever say something like that?" My very-nearly-finished novelette is set in a hotel---but all I know about what goes on in a hotel involves being a guest, and not a worker.
I've tried to gather some info as I go---I've got a great number of facts floating around in my head already---but, in most cases, I need something more.
quote:In a public speaking class years ago, the teacher said if you are not sure how to pronounce a word, say your interpretation out loud and with confidence. People who know differently will doubt their own knowledge and accept it.
Unless a member of the audience knows that the speakers mispronunciation is incorrect.
Of course, a writer can't obsess. There's always going to be someone who knows more about a subject than you. Dan Simmons runs an on-line writer's forum, and once he talked about some of the letters Stephen King received from a mechanic because of an error he made about cars in one of his novels. Simmons pretty much said that if a reader can't accept small mistakes like that in a novel, they have some real issues they need to deal with.
That being said, Simmons also noted that the novelist must do what he can to get the details right.
As far as how much a car costs, I agree with what's been said about using it to reveal character. Some people will buy a Ferrari b/c they love Ferraris. Cost is irrelevant. Others will buy Ferraris because of the social status it gives them -- and part of that social status is the cost.
Now if the cost of the Ferrari is coming out of your character's mouth, then you have to ask -- is this the kind of person who gives accurate information, or is he a kind of person who says "I caught a fist THIS big"?
I can certainly imagine a character changing the cost of his Ferrari depending on who he's talking to. If he knows no one in the party can buy a car, he might give the precise number. But if there are wealthy people in the party, he might round UP to the nearest $50,000. If he's with some old high school chums, he might be a bit embarrassed to talk about the price. Or, then again, he might not. It depends.
But the key here is the character, and how he or she would use the information.
posted
If a person writes something inaccurate in a story, even in a fiction story, then I start to doubt the 'reality' of the story. If the author has too many of these inaccuracies, then I toss the story all together.
If information is something simple to look up and the author didn't bother, I get irritated at their arrogance...they won't spend a few minutes to make sure their information is accurate, but they expect me to pay good money for it?! Grrr.
If it's a bit of esoteric knowledge that's not really important to the story, then I'm much more forgiving. It still jerks me from the story, though, and I'm a bit less likely to buy anything from that author again.
I love research, though I know most people don't. Still, I think it's lazy to blindly give wrong information when finding the right information is typically pretty simple. If in doubt, write something so general that the information isn't notably wrong. For example, just drop the price on the Ferrari or say, "She feed the horse" rather than chance getting it wrong by saying, "She poured grain into the horse's bucket" (which wouldn't be how a Middle Ages peasant would feed the horse, for example, and you'd better have hay as the horse's main course).
On to KayTi's post: I don't have a problem with clones being growth-accelerated and memory downloaded as long as it's just mentioned like that and no attempt is made to explain it. Most Sci-Fi is based on the impossible (sorry guys!)--like faster than light travel to distant galaxies where human-habitable planets exist or can be terraformed with relative ease and success. However, if you try to explain the details of how such a technology works, suddenly I'm waiting for a really good explaination...one that I'm not likely to buy unless you've seriously researched the problems involved.
BTW, I'm not saying that a character has to be absolutely precise if that character wouldn't normally be precise. A character ignorant of horses is allowed to colic them by feeding them too much grain. A character can round off the number of days to an event ("It's three weeks whole weeks until the parade!" when it's actually in 19 days). I'm more talking about the story world than character dialogue.
posted
I agree that the cost is not significant, simply identifying the make of the car as a Ferrari is sufficient to give the impression of extremely expensive.
I do have a nit pick though, an individual purchasing a $750,000 car is paying cash and has enough money that the expense is not really the issue, there aggravation over a wreck is the inconvenience it causes them not any possible monies out of pocket. When you move to that scale of purchase values change.
posted
A proofreader is supposed to spot when a fact is incorrect, so if they get through to the published novel, then a lot of people aren't doing their jobs correctly.
I check facts if for instance it's sceintific or biological - for example an injury or ilness - but in science fiction especially if its futuristic a lot of facts are probably not relevant, like the cost of cars. But it is important, IMHO to be as acurate as possible.
posted
For scifi, I am fine with vague- in fact vague is better. But if you introduce a limit to your technology, it should make sense. Also, if you are a thousand years in the future and the technology they are using is worse than what is done, today, I want a plausible explanation. So, while I don't expect an author to have read all the papers in the field, I expect her to have read atleast a review.
Posts: 303 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Price…meh. Value is what needs to be established. Like it’s a limited edition only 6 in the world, and can never be replace, type car. That establishes value no matter how rich or expensive the car was.
I paid 125$ for Incredible hulk 180 and 181 together. (The first appearance of wolverine, for those that don’t know.) That was 10/15 years ago. Now they are worth more on the market, but they are more valuable to me than money, because I am a collector. And, the fact that I searched for years to get good copies of those books means so much. If they were destroyed I wouldn't be devastated, but I would feel a sense of loss, even if I was reimburse the full amount of current value from my insurance company.
At least thats how I feel.
[This message has been edited by Alye (edited June 16, 2007).]
posted
I don't want to get into a discussion of what is "sci-fi" vs SF versus whatever but throwing around the notion that in "sci-fi" a vague description of science/technology is important then you're limiting the genre to Space Opera (ie Star Wars/Trek and to some extent stories like the Ender/Shadow Series).
That being said, and to reiterate, the "important" details are only important given the context of the story.
posted
I should say, too, that for scientific or technological change I'll throw in a few ringers, though I like things to be right...but for details taken out of a known past, I like things to be right even more...
Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I kick myself for not remembering this soon enough to bring it up in my first two posts in this thread, not even the one a few minutes ago, but...
Kelly's Blue Book, http://www.kbb.com/ should give you any car price you need to know. I last used it the last time I traded in a car. (Maybe all this came up in the First Thirteen post.)
[edited to try to fix the link---I wasn't trying to put a live one in.]
[This message has been edited by Robert Nowall (edited June 17, 2007).]
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