posted
So I'm reading a book called The Alchemyst by Michael Scott. As I'm going, I seem to be paying more attention to how the author is setting things up. I could be wrong, but he seems to be setting up one of the main characters to turn to the dark side. I really like the way the set up is going and I'm even taking some notes on how he's doing it.
Do any of you read a book from a writer's perspective and take notes on how the author builds the story? Which books/authors have helped you do this, and what have you learned?
posted
I don't know about anyone else, but when I started taking art and writing lessons I found myself doing the same thing. Eventually I got to the point where I don't enjoy books, television, movies or art as I did before, instead I enjoy seeing how it's all put together more.
Posts: 13 | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Other writers are the only writing help I've ever gotten. . . Every book I've ever read has been added to my education. The bad books help me the most. I see the problems in plot or prose, decide how I would change the story to make it better, then watch for the same failings in my own writing. Good books I don't like to analyze, but I find myself outlining plots for most of the books I've read, especially mysteries and 'capers'(criminal genius at it's best).
Posts: 99 | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
Well I've never claimed to be a "writer" but rather a "reader who writes"
I've always thought that a well written story teaches the reader not simply something new about the subject matter but something new about the way a good story could/should be written.
Take Heinlein when I read Stranger in a Strange Land, I learned that multiple POVs within one storyline only works when the author has been careful to prep both readers and characters appropriately.
Whereas reading GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire, the multiple POV issue is totally different. Since each POV is a unique storyline, the treatment of time overlap, Character development and reader preparation are vastly different for GRRM.
By reading both of these and then comparing the two uses of this technique makes me not only a better writer but also a better reader because I will no longer accept the same old same old.
posted
Conversely to Matt's example, I had the inesteemable joy to read a smelly Joy Fielding novel on my most recent holiday (blew through 4 other books over the 20 days, and was desperate on the flight home). It sucked. It sucked so hard it's a good thing there wasn't a shuttle in orbit, 'cause it would have been hauled out of orbit through the pure suction this dribbling piece of drivel had.
But, it did teach me a few things. How not to be obvious about character relationships - that being subtle is fine. How to write dialoge that wasn't stilted and mechanical. How not to write like a million brain-dead monkeys sitting at broken typewriters for a million years.
posted
Since I've started writing, I haven't been able to read a book without thinking about how it's all put together. Frankly, I love doing it. I've thought about taking notes, and probably would if I weren't so bloody lazy.
One of my favorite authors is mystery author Dick Francis. While his stories aren't the most sophisticated, I love how they are put together and how he sprinkles in the clues. I think he does a good job with suspense. Furthermore, he's so durn prolific that it's rather neat to read his early stuff and compare it to his later stuff to see how he's grown.
Another writer I pay a lot of attention to while reading is Mary Renault (sorry, I keep bringing her up but I've just so enjoyed her books). She is the mistress of psychological and emotional richness.
Another key author is Gregory Macguire, who writes with such an authoritative style. I feel I'm in the hands of an expert story teller. Wicked is one of the better books, but I think Mirror Mirror was the more fascinating and daring from an artistic perspective.
Finally, GRR Martin. I scrutinize how he creates his characters and how he sprinkles in his vast and intricate world. If you want to read somebody who conveys reams of cultural info without info dumping, I think he's the one to look at.
Ultimately, I agree with Matt. I don't think there's a book I've read that I haven't learned something from, even if it's only how not to do things.
quote:Do any of you read a book from a writer's perspective and take notes on how the author builds the story? Which books/authors have helped you do this, and what have you learned?
Of course! Though it's mostly just mental notes, I guess I should write down stuff more :P
posted
I don't go so far as to take notes, but I do that sort of thing all the time, but more on a micro-level than you describe--looking at sentence and paragraph structure, dialogue, etc.
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posted
I have notebooks filled with notes of things that authors have done and how they did it. Of course, I would never be able to find anything in them but the notetaking itself is a way of stamping it into my memory. I have taken writing courses but never learned even a dribble compared to what I learned just from reading.
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quote:Do any of you read a book from a writer's perspective and take notes on how the author builds the story? Which books/authors have helped you do this, and what have you learned?
I think I remember many good professional writers saying a writers should read a lot, and study what the read. Re-read, even, which I don't.
The more I learn, the more I see. I can't even watch television or movies now without analyzing the plot, breaking things down into setup, conflict, resolution. In some ways, it has ruined me a little. Movies I might have enjoyed in the past, are now sour for me. At least, now I know why the sour ones are sour.
So my completely amateur advice is, either be reading or writing.
posted
I try not to take appart books as I read them, but I certainly feel the need to feed my brain books before I make it work, this is actually my first step in avoiding/ending writers block, read something, even if it re-reading.
There is one exception to my emersion style of learning through reading, when I read something bad, in fact the biggest turning point in my writing recently was reading a really really bad book called Eragon.
I have been writing as long as I can remember, and started my current WIP trilogy at the age of 16, when I read Eragon over the summer holidays I realised some things. 1. What I wrote when I was 17 was not worth publishing. 2. If my parents had published what I wrote when I was 17 I would now be very embarrassed to be linked with it. 3. I should probably rewrite all the stuff I wrote before the age of 20,
And that is why this year I have been rewriting my first finished manuscript (first book I ever wrote is a very different story, one that ended with me so sick of my MC when I rewrote the first chapter I killed him off before he turned up), and trust me it has been a fantastic choice.
(By the way, I did read all of Eragon and the start of Eldest and my opinion never got any better)
posted
Oddly, I learned some useful lessons on writing from DVDs, the ones that include the 'how we made the movie' stuff.
Since movies have visuals, they often pack a lot into a short piece of dialogue. 'She understands, but she doesn't comprehend' comes to mind from Joss Whedon's Firefly. Also from Firefly's 'how we made it' stuff I learned something about having a strong back-story but not necessarily putting it all in the movie (or the book.)
Another thing that's important to movies, and written stories, is to establish critical concepts early so that later, when the action is fast, the audience understand. I knew it from books on writing, but watching favourite movies over again made it come alive for me. For example, in Goldfinger, Odd Job's hat is established as a weapon to reckon with, when he beheads the stone statue at the golf course. Later, when he uses it for real, we hope that his target will duck - quick.
In crits of one of my stories I was told that I was too lean on detail. (I had left it out, fearing infodumps.) So recently I picked up some Ian Fleming novels - Goldfinger, Dr No, etc - because somewhere I had read that Fleming included lots of detail. (And of course he sold well.)
The novels are a delight, and the way Fleming draws the detail is fascinating. It's colourful writing that captures atmosphere through Bond's senses and, being the hero he is, he takes it all in. What's clever is that, since Bond is interested in the details, our interest is held; we enjoy his appreciation of the moment, even as he's thinking at the back of his mind about how he'll deal with the latest threat to the world.
One of the interesting ways that Fleming handles infodumps is to have Bond visit a specialist to learn what he needs to know, about the gold market for example. Like Q, the specialist is always an enthusiastic eccentric. Though Bond's reactions we warm to the character and absorb the information.
Cheers, Pat
[This message has been edited by TaleSpinner (edited August 17, 2007).]
posted
I can't think of anything I actually use that I picked up from reading...but I did go through a period of writing down what some writers had done, the good and the bad. Probably I internalized it, and forgot it. (Much like grammar.)
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posted
I don't take notes when reading a novel or story. It's too much work. But I tend to think a lot about a novel/story after I finish reading it -- espeically if it was a good one -- and try to figure out what I liked best about it. I might even spend a few days writing in my journal about it.
As Stephen King said, all novels have something to teach a writer. I accept that. I just try not to make reading feel like graduate school.
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