The October 2007 edition of Writers Digest has an article "Keep the Commission" suggesting this as a good option.

For the real reason I ask: I recently received an offer from one. I was preparing to have a professional editor look at my book (call it a safety blanket for a new writer or a wise decision - the editor is good, having worked on multiple best sellers) when I friend emailed his acquisitions editor recommending my book to her. She liked it and a contract should arrive for me to consider in two days. I was planning to have the editor help me polish and make sure it looks like what agents are used to, an educational process for me at least, and then I had planned to query lit agents.

The agency accepts 4% of submissions. They publish in trade paperback, not hardcover or mass market paperback. They put $16k into publicity and ask the author to put in $4k.

Edited to add that this includes working with agents. The way it works with agents is that the publisher sends the money to the agent and the after the agent takes his/her cut (it is moving to 15% more and more nowadays, by the way), the agent sends the rest of the money to the writer.

But you think a small publisher, in trade paper instead of hardcover / mass market is worth considering?

(Edited to ask the question.)

I say this because the rule of thumb that money flows to the author is a good one, but it kind of leaves this impression that once you sell a book, your work is done and you just let the publisher do the rest. It takes something out of you to sell that book -- time, personal appearances, travel....and I assure you that unless you're John Grisham no publisher will pay for your travel expenses. (They tend to invest money in sure things and wait for you to prove yourself.)

Money flowing TO the author means it does not flow back to the publisher. It does not mean that an author won't end up spending time and money on the marketing of the book. The red flag comes up when a publisher wants you to pay them money. I'm not sure about a publisher setting a price on how much they expect you to spend on marketing...that's strange since there are really so many different plans you can use based on different budgets and books etc. so it does kind of make me wonder, but anyway...I just wanted to lay that out there.

I'm a bit disillusioned by publishing at the moment. Like I said, since I've not done it both ways I can't say whether it's because I went small press or not. Most of my frustration has to do with delays in printing (the book was supposed to have been out half a year ago) and lack of communication with the publisher. I can't think that this has anything to do with the size of the press. I'm also honestly not enjoying the marketing side of this. It takes me away from writing, which is what I love and what I got into this for. Nevertheless, in a few months I will see my book in print and that's something I feel like I can be proud of.

I lacked the confidence to send my manuscript off to big agents and houses the first time. I am hoping to have book two finished by next summer (maybe sooner depending upon how much marketing efforts take me away from it) and when it's done, I'm going to follow some advice that I'm going to give you now: Start at the top and work your way down. It takes forever. (That's another reason I didn't do it.) You can spend years sending your manuscript off to one publisher after another, one agent after another. But still, start at the top and see what happens. Eventually, try a small press. They may not take you either -- it's not like small means indiscriminate. Even a small publisher will usually take less than 5% of the manuscripts they receive. But it's a way to get a book out there and to get a start through a real, honest publisher that can get your book listed with national distributors.

Self publishing, IMHO, is a waste of time. (Won't get into that here because I don't want to bog down the topic, but just thought I'd mention it.)

From what I've read from the blogs of other writers, most of publishing is waiting. It takes a long time to hear anything. I believe the average time from acceptance to actual publishing is about two years.

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Do you get reports that they're actually spending the $16,000 you published? And if they're spending that much, why do they want money from you?
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This is a good question - what do they do for publicity? I am mixed on the $4k - I see an up front cost as a big red flag, but I don't mind spending money for publicity if they put up some too and it is used well. I have a friend who published two books with them and he has been very satisfied. (They sometimes wave it on a first book and always wave it on subsequent books.) I will call and ask the editor after I get the contract.

Oh, and there is no agent which saves a little money and they have a %15 to authors on distribution sales (which they claim is good but I have no idea). That's nice if it sells.

Editors of textbooks that are designed as readers (ie anthology of previously published works) are often times asked to cough up a bit of money to help secure rights to these previously published works. Of course this is a slightly different because there is a built in audience (students of one's class) and getting a book published is an investment in one's career (tenure considerations).

Now not knowing the history of this particular small publisher, I would be suspicious. If this were me, I would be very direct and ask them what other creative works that this business has published and the number of copies actually sold. I would ask them what bookstores stock their authors and then go find them.

But this is just me.

Marketing one's book/self in Academia is seen as a relative no-no, with the big or small label depending on who wrote the book and who's critiquing the self-promotion.

Its not that one should not seek criticism but rather in academia all marketing type promotions are best left eto the "business" people and all scholarly praise such as "authoritative" or "powerful" should by some well placed and well respected colleague.

While this is much more true of textbooks than of actual empirical research, showing off a copy of your own book at a convention or even worse presenting the book at the convention is a rather conspicuous faux pas. (As presentations are meant to be primarily on "new" and cutting edge research and books often consist of years sometimes decades old empirical data).

This isn't to say this is not done and in fact at many of the larger conferences there are invite only panels Called "Author meets Critics" where recent book length research is discussed.

A guy in my writer's group did what you are considering. He paid a few grand out of his own pocket to a small publisher called Tate Publishing.

They were very thorough, working with him, getting the editing just right. A high quality, professional book came out of it. The publisher listed it on their website for around $12.00. This was for a 120 page paperback book, which I thought was an outlandish price. Unless a family member or a friend, who is going to pay that much for a thin paperback book by an unknown author?

I noticed on their website that they say they sell to brick-and-mortar stores, but that was not his experience. They told him they didn't market to stores because his genre was "not their usual market". Publisher's website aside, he had to do all of his own marketing. He works for a newspaper. His name is well-known in these parts, yet self-promotion did not help him come even close to re-couping the costs.

He was satisfied with the physical book and enjoyed his 10-minutes of local fame, but he was not pleased with the marketing and would not go this route again.

If you're looking to get a book out there at any cost, without any concern for financial gain AND if $4,000 means nothing to you, then go for it.

Otherwise, keep your fingers tightly coiled around that $4,000.00.

Besides, I'm cheap. The most money I've ever spent at one time was for the downpayment on my house; cars are next in line, and in both cases I looked forward to years of smaller payments. The "four thousand" quoted is just a little under both. Most of my money is tied up in wealth---I've been through some bad times, but I could afford it right now---but I'd rather not. I don't deny myself that much---I must spend several hundred dollars each month on books alone---but somewhere down the line, I'd miss having the four thousand.

There are small publishers out there who do a good job, and a number of good authors got their start with such publishers, but it worthwhile to check the reputation of any publisher you are considering submitting to. Some do a better job of marketing than others. I'd want to be sure that the publisher showed up at the conventions, marketed to the indies, etc.

Then whether you are going with a big name or a small one, expect to have to do marketing on your own.

By the way I found this really educational, and I'd like to share it.