I know all about the reasons not to, but I'm also intrigued by this developing medium.
I know some people will have a bit to say against the concept, but I think blooking (and I wish there was a more widely used word for this b/c this one just jars) is an emerging medium.
Take a look at the Blooker prize winners for stellar blooks that have been published.
Any one have a blook, even if it isn't a self described blook, that they read?
Want to argue why this isn't a viable medium? I'm serious. I'd like to discuss it. Thanks.
posted
Hint: I'll stand by for Kathleen's comments. Hatrack worries about protecting the traditional publishing rights/prospects of Hatrackers, which is one reason they restrict postings to 13 lines.
Posts: 746 | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Depends on what you mean by "viable", I guess.
Serialization has a long history, so what you're doing is a reasonable electronic extension of a print tradition. However, since you're putting it online yourself, you're using your first publication rights rather than selling them to a publisher. (I'm not a lawyer, so don't trust me, but that's my understanding.) If you want to sell your novel later, that might become an issue.
Might. What do I know? Maybe, if you can get a real following, that will make people want to publish your book. Or if you're independently a "name", they might want to publish you anyway. I have no doubt that Steven King or Orson Scott Card could serialize a novel online first and still get it published. Me? Not so sure.
As for the "Blooker Prize" books, they appear to be different. They're books based on blogs, not blogs based on books; for example, Seth Godin's book is based on his voluminous writings. My War is based on the soldier's blog. Make sure you're comparing apples to apples.
Regards, Oliver
[This message has been edited by oliverhouse (edited September 08, 2007).]
posted
I'm sore tempted to try posting my work---just taking my stuff and putting it up somewhere online.
On the one hand, I have the experience of sending a manuscript off to market, book publishers and magazines, having them look at it---maybe---then having them send it back to me with a rejection slip. And repeat this process, over and over, for practically every thing I've written, for over thirty years.
On the other hand, I sent out some Internet Fan Fiction to people who were kind enough to put it up on their sites, and I subsequently got a fair amount of commentary on what I'd written, by people who'd obviously read it. No money, great ego gratification.
What to do?
*****
...obviously I couldn't do it here...I'd have to start my own site, I guess...
posted
Like a few others, I admit to doing some fanfic. That's not publishable even though tolerated by the genre's originators. That's what makes a candidate for blooking - it's not otherwise publishable. I posted chapters as a serial and provided a feedback forum, but didn't try to put a name on it. Lots of "Good story" comments without real feedback didn't do much good, other than the ego stroke. That method has run its course and the stories are archived. I'm trying for publication now, so there won't be any more blooking for me.
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posted
I'd say it depends a whole lot on your goals and motivation for writing. If you consider yourself a writing professional or a professional wanna-be, this isn't an option. You've used too many rights and seriously reduced the value of the work.
If you are a hobbyist, why not? You don't care about the rights much if at all and would probably enjoy the ego strokes.
posted
As for putting things online, I plan to put some of my stories online when I finish my Web site. I haven't decided what to put up, yet. Probably not any stories that have been rejected twenty times. For anything like a book, though, I'd rather seek actual publication, going through some kind of vetting process.
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Oliverhouse, there was a fiction category, but the nonfiction work did seem to get more acclaim and attention.
My reasoning: I'm between a hobbyist and a wanna-be pro. I have all this work that no one is reading, might as well get some readers. I also figure, though I'm giving up the rights to this work, I'm not going to stop wriitng. I can traditonally publish other stuff, and if I can get a following (and that sounds way too confident), the other work will be easier to market. And just because it was published online doesn't mean it can't be published in print, though the only way this stuff may see print is through Lulu.
I've decided to try the difficult grass roots approach to publishing. I know I have a much tougher path before me, but I'm curious to go down it and see if anything happens.
posted
There is nothing wrong with using your rights (you don't give them up--just use them) if you want to, as long as you're aware that's what you're doing.
As you said, you're only using the electronic rights, but there are many traditional print houses now that expect electronic rights to be available, so it's just something to be aware of. Then it's your decision to make.
posted
Hunter, my point wasn't fiction vs. non-fiction, but maybe you're right -- that makes a difference to this medium. The non-fiction stuff is episodic and develops organically, whereas the novels probably weren't and didn't. The short stories might be more like the non-fiction in terms of development.
"Viable" still depends on what you mean.
It's clearly a form of self-publishing that's cheap and easily controlled, so it's viable if the most important thing is getting your story out.
Unless you can figure out a new business model, it's probably not viable as a way of making money from your writing, since the revenue would come through subscriptions, if you know how to secure your site, or through advertising, which won't generate significant money unless you have lots of readers.
How would you market your blook? It sounds like you want people to read it, so how do you drive them to your site? If you use up your first electronic rights and don't get people to read your book, then I think you're in a mostly lose-lose situation.
I think that if I had something that I thought was pretty good, even if not perfect, and I thought I had a good shot at breaking out soon, I'd keep the book in my hip pocket to show my agent after my first book was sold.
On another note: a lot of people have a hard time reading online. You might consider providing an alternate download -- a nicely formatted, printable PDF, Word, or RTF file of the document -- so that people can print it out.
If you know CSS, you can even make it print more nicely automatically, without creating a separate download, using the "@media print" construction.
posted
I think that times they are a changing. It's been conventional wisdom in the past to never self publish anything on-line. I think that that idea is losing its impact and that an author now has to, and is expected to have some kind of web presence. The existence of Blogs and how they are propelling ordinary people to noteriety is a perfect example of on-line power.
Considering that, I think that authors should all be giving something away on-line too, even if it means not being able to publish it later. With the tie-in to a Blog on a public place with Blogspot or some other free site, even a non-published author can get a group of people interested in their writing. It's a great way to gain a reading audience before getting published, and a good selling point to gain an agent.
I'm not just saying this either, I really believe it. I have a website of my own, simple in nature, with a story of mine that placed as semifinalist in the Writers Of The Future Contest on it for anyone interested. Here's the link (shameless plug):
I used to have a personal Blog on it too, but not through a public site, so I took it off. I intend to start a Blog somewhere as soon as I'm willing to commit to posting at least a couple times a week. Before that kind of commitment, it could be a negative to have one.
Of course, these are just my opinions. I do think that the tide is shifting though, and the sooner an author starts self-promoting themselves, the better if you want a career in it. If you just want to do write for fun, then do whatever makes you happy.
quote:even a non-published author can get a group of people interested in their writing. It's a great way to gain a reading audience before getting published, and a good selling point to gain an agent.
While I agree with this in principle, it implies doing marketing to get people to read your stuff. I don't mean advertising, necessarily, but doing _something_ that's going to get people to read about you. If you, your wife, and your mother are the only people reading what you're doing, then you're not gaining a reading audience.
There are over 70 million blogs being tracked by Technorati -- in other words, real blogs, not spam blogs ("splogs").
Over 120,000 new blogs are created every day -- 1.4 per second.
There are 1.5 million posts per day -- 17 per second.
If your intent is to gain readership, what are you going to do that's going to make some people choose your particular blog out of all others? Before you use up your first electronic publication rights, have an answer to that question. Personally, I think that I'd be better off spending my time writing and submitting work that I might get me money and credentials; your mileage may vary, but know what you're getting into.
posted
I agree with oliverhouse. Authors need to understand that it is definitely up to them to promote themselves as much as their work. Like he said, you have to do something. While Blogging may not get you there, it's just one piece of a bigger puzzle, and in no way is a replacement for doing all the other things that oliverhouse suggests.
Before giving anything away, you should make the effort to get any story published first so you get paid for it and get greater recognition for it. You also shouldn't give away inferior work just because it couldn't sell. This will only hurt you as an author.
My thoughts for giving stories away is that if I can write one great story, it doesn't mean it's the only one I'll ever write. I'm always of the opinion that my next story will be even better, and I hope everyone feels the same. Anyway, I hope everyone feels they're improving in their writing skills.
I think the key thing is to be ready to take advantage of any breaks you might get. If you go to a convention, or a book signing, or just happen to meet somebody who might help your career, it's good to have someplace convenient and easy for them to go to so they can see something about you. This doesn't necessarily mean a Blog, but at least something easily accessible, and I can't think of anything easier and more accessible than the Internet and a web page.
These are only my thoughts. Everybody has to determine what they think will work for them. All I know is I'm more than willing to try anything and everything that makes sense to promote myself and my work. The important thing to know is it will no doubt take time, patience, and persistence to make it for any author.
posted
True, luapc, but it's more than that. To get people to read your blog, you have to market the blog. People are highly unlikely to find you on their own unless you do something about it. So while people think of the blog as one part of promoting themselves, it's actually quite a bit of work to promote the blog so you can promote yourself.
Blogging is fine, and I have one myself. I decided my blog should be about concise prose because (a) it's focused (so people know what they're getting when they go there), (b) it's unusual, perhaps unique (so what they get will be different from most of the 70,000,000 other blogs out there), (c) it has a set of people who have a natural affinity for it (so there's a natural readership), (d) I communicate with some of those people on a semi-regular basis (so I can invite them to read the blog), and (e) I might be able to monetize it at some point (though if I don't it's no big deal).
Even with all of those advantages (a-d: e isn't really an advantage for a blog), I've only gotten about 800 unique visits so far (per Statcounter, which I highly recommend: it's free, easy to use, and unobtrusive: statcounter.com), which probably translates to about 150 unique readers, probably 80% of which have been Hatrackers.
You might get synergy from creating and promoting a blog while you're also promoting yourself in other ways, but don't expect your blog to promote you.
posted
Regardless of the common wisdom on Hatrack, Miss Snark and other on-line literary agents have said repeatedly that online blogging is not real publishing. I, on the other hand, wouldn't care to test the waters on this issue myself. I'll just wait until some other poor wretch has been burned due to his/her own blooking/blogging and come crawling back here to cry about it.
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posted
Maybe I should make my point a little clearer. I don't consider Blogging a proper place for publishing stories either. While I do think that a web presence is a good idea, and that making representative stories available for free is also a good idea, I think Blogs are a bad place for it. I think a simple web site is much more appropriate. Blogs, in my opinion, are for journals and light conversation, while web pages are clearly used for publishing every day by newspapers, on-line magazines, and numerous others. Each tool to its purpose.
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Elan, you're right about Miss Snark (though I haven't looked at others). Since the topic is "blooking", in which the entire novel is serialized, the rights issue seems less relevant, and I'll stop referring to it. (Short stories may be another issue.)
Either way, blogging is a resource drain, and you have to make sure the benefit is worth the effort -- and the promotional effort, not just the writing effort.
posted
Brandon Sanderson, who is definately a published author, some might say, the current new writer rising star, has a whole novel on his forum that's free:
It's good too. I think it is a good stategy. He lets people sample his writing style and type of fantasy, they then go out and buy some of his published works.
posted
Personally, I plan to have free stuff on my website. However, I'm hesitant to do that before I publishing something--which I plan to get around to just as soon as I stop screwing around with this novel....
In my mind, there is an odd balance. I don't want to give trash away free. So, if I try to publish something and it is never accepted--should I give it away? If it's not publish-worthy, how much good can it do me. And if it is publish-worthy, why give it away free? Those are the things I worry about when I ponder what goes on to my site.
If a writer starts a blog for the purpose of attracting readers, what sort of things do they write about? I have no idea.
I have a blog, but I mostly keep it for myself. I think better when I write, so I write about writing. I use it to sort out my thoughts on a subject. I'm not looking for readership there (though it's not private. I don't mind it someone reads it.)
posted
Thanks everyone for even more thoughtful comments and discussion.
Oliverhouse, a lot of what you say is very true. I know a blog does not magically attract readers. I need to get out there and comment on other blogs, put my name/site on lists to attract others, just make my site as available as possible, and put myself out there.
Elan, I promise I won't be coming back here to cry, and I don't plan on crying at all. I have very modest hopes for this blog, and I know it will be very slow going, but some measure of success is possible, but success is self-defined so my idea of success may not be the same as yours or others.
luapc said:
quote:My thoughts for giving stories away is that if I can write one great story, it doesn't mean it's the only one I'll ever write. I'm always of the opinion that my next story will be even better, and I hope everyone feels the same.
Though luapc does not support blooking, what was said here is bascially what I was trying to say in a previous post, but he put it more eloquently. So Scary Mary may never be published in print. I can publish another book in print.
Quality and hurting oneself by presenting inferior stories has been mentioned. This is an interesting quandry. If it isn't good enough for a publisher or agent, it should be hidden away it seems, but since I can't get feedback on why it should not be published, I don't know if it is poor quality. I know it isn't stellar. I know Scary Mary isn't great literature, and I hope to get feedback on how to make it better. If someone points out something that is wrong with a chapter/post, I can go in and re-work it.
But it's true, I'm not just seeking feedback, some fans would be nice too. How to get fans is something I'm working on. I'm still figuring this stuff out. Everything is a work in progress.
posted
I know I really enjoyed reading the advance chapters of Bujold's "A Civil Campaign" that were posted on the internet - that was done by her publisher, of course.
I had wandered around hatrack enough to hear about the 13 line business, so I haven't posted any of my current novel online. But what I did do was establish a blog for readers' comments about the chapters I was e-mailing out. Some would post comments directly to the blog and others' comments I would post at the blog, identified only by their initials. For each chapter I would have a post containing related trivia that didn't 'spoil' the plot (IMO) which I would also send out to my readers.
For me it was part of learning how to write - and now I can only look back in awe at my readers who stuck with me until I actually became readable.
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