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On the one book per file thing, I seem to recall a time when Word would unpredictably collapse given a large file, and it was safer to split a book amongst several files and print them individually--which made page numbering and a table of contents a nightmare. With larger and faster computers these days that might no longer be a problem, but this conservative luddite will not risk it.

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This is true. Don't put your novel into one file unless you yearn for the feeling of losing it all, forever.

A few years ago I did technical support for Microsoft Word. We had front-line technicians taking calls, and more experienced "Mentors" assisting them and taking over difficult cases. I was the technical supervisor over the mentor team.

I can't count how many novels, thesis, memoirs, and such that I saw lost because a customer had it all in one file with no backup. Word is unstable when a document has over 200 pages (Microsoft forbid us from admitting that.)

Back up EVERYTHING of any importance!!! OFF-SITE!

There are computer crashes, thefts and house fires. For heaven's sake!

I don't worry about having my novel in one file because I have an automatic backup on two different backup services because I don't trust a backup service. (two may be over-kill but I have known too many things to go wrong)

Yes, I'm fanatical. But I've known someone who had a computer stolen and lost a novel he'd worked on for three years and had never backed up! I also knew a company that lost many thousands of dollars worth of information because they were too lazy to back up their servers in spite of multiple warnings.

The problem isn't having it in Word. The problem is not bothering with something as important as backup! There are free and low cost backup services out there. USE ONE!

If it's easier to work with a master document, fine, keep it in one document, but periodically I suggest chopping it up into smaller bits and sending THOSE off to your offsite backup.

I should clarify that I do NOT work on my novel in one file. I was just saying that I consider that much less an issue than backup.

I went into a lengthy explanation in another post that I write my novel in chapters. I wait to put it into one file. I only put it in one file after it is being edited in order to do pagination and for the ability to check consistency in spelling, etc.

Writing it in separate files makes editing a problem though and I was complaining about that. I have a feeling my explanation was a bit confusing from the responses I got.

And even if you have it in separate chapters it should be backed up in some way. I would strongly suggest using automated backup--in my experience otherwise people won't.

However, in the context of this thread, I don't think we should hijack away from the important information I gave.

Here's why: YOU CAN BACKUP YOUR CORRUPT DATA AND NOT REALIZE IT UNTIL SEVERAL VERSIONS LATER. (Hey, Jeanne used all caps; so can I.) The damage caused by that kind of data corruption is not always evident right away. It can sit for a long time.

And I agree wholeheartedly that backing up is important, I don't want to take away from that. I just don't want the whole thread to turn into backing up so much that the advise on document length is lost in the pile.

Will v3 likely be corrupt too? I saved it a week ago...is it toast?

Is there a solution for a file that seems to be getting iffy but isn't yet corrupt? Are there hallmarks that "warning - this data is getting to be too much for your poor word processor."?

I ask because I have noticed with a few of my larger files (all text) - that occasionally the file size starts to creep up for no apparent reason from version to version. So, one of the things I have done is to go into the most recent, copy the text, then paste into a new blank document, and save. This usually clears up the file size issue, I saw it save a good 50k on a recent document. Same text, new blank document, 50k less spaec on disk. Weird. But I know how Word likes to garbage collect.

My point is - would it be smarter for me to do this copy/paste trick to go from v2 to v3 to v4, rather than going through "Save As"? I have a feeling it might...

First, here is an important bookmark for anyone using Word. We used to have an impressive list of what how to handle a possibly corrupt document. Here it is:

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Is there a solution for a file that seems to be getting iffy but isn't yet corrupt? Are there hallmarks that "warning - this data is getting to be too much for your poor word processor."?

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"How to troubleshoot damaged Word documents"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/826864/en-us?spid=2530&sid=1407

And the great thing is that text files are usually the easiest to repair. I would recommend going straight for the "Things to Try If the Document Opens and It Shows Unexpected Behavior" in the case you mentioned.

(The order of steps in the document is a little clunky. I would read through the whole ting first.)

As far as multiple versions, you can try to backtrack to a clean version. There is no way to avoid a creeping corruption like that, but saving versions is definitely safer. To be specific, v3 may or may not be toast. The only way to know is to check. (Sadly, there isn't more to it.) However, just because v4 went bad, it doesn't mean v3 will go bad again if you revert to it. So it really is a good practice.

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I ask because I have noticed with a few of my larger files (all text) - that occasionally the file size starts to creep up for no apparent reason from version to version. So, one of the things I have done is to go into the most recent, copy the text, then paste into a new blank document, and save. This usually clears up the file size issue, I saw it save a good 50k on a recent document. Same text, new blank document, 50k less spaec on disk. Weird. But I know how Word likes to garbage collect.

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Yes, it does like to collect garbage in the background. For example, you can bold an entire sentence and the formatting will actually break it into three separate sections that need to be bolded, though its one large chunk.

Another way to deal with this is to save the file as text in the Save As dialogue box. Then open the text file and save as a word document again. (We used to call this technique Round-Tripping.) This depends on how much formatting is in the file. It shouldn't alter a short story formatted for submission much at all.

Otherwise, the copy/paste thing you mentioned probably works well. (It's always a good idea to show paragraph marks and not copy the last paragraph mark--that's the King Junk Collector.)

One safe way to save it is to make it a .pdf. You can't edit those without special software, but at least you'll have a saved, safe copy of that "generation" of your novel.

I back up to my laptop and to a memory stick (we have a wireless network). I also have those readers who I'll email chapters to. One time when I had a major glitch, I was able to recover my work by requesting the file from my reader. (Whew!!)

This way, I can keep track of the changes I've made, if I reworked a chapter and decide I liked the old version, or if a file gets corrupted, etc. I then save the master list of all backups on 2 computers, as well as an online email account and a flash drive I keep on my keychain. All 4 would have to go down to lose anything permenantly.

What's annoying is that a manuscript submission needs hardly any of the fancy formatting that Word is capable of. That's why I tried other word processors and writer's tools. But its ergonomics and the fact that you can control it with templates are the best I've seen at the price, so still I use it.

My experience of using software with known flaky bits is to stay well away from their known limits. In other words, rather than hope to spot a file that's going to crash, I'll stay well away from the 200 page limit lehollis kindly mentioned--by setting myself an arbitrary limit of around 100 pages, say.

On backups, it's true that not taking backups is a common malaise. Another common mistake is to not check that backups can actually be read and restored from. And as lehollis says, if the backup is corrupt all is for naught.

I don't use an online backup service: I travel too much and cannot always get an internet connection when I want one. (And I'm leary of online services--what if my internet connection, or the service, is down for some reason and I want my backups?)

I dump large amounts of backup data onto DVDs, some kept in the office (for an immediate restore) with duplicates off-site. I also copy WIPs onto a large memory stick for an instant, quick backup in case of finger fumbles.

Cheers,
Pat

http://mozy.com/home

Then if your house burns down, killing your four computers, just after your pet chewed you portable storage, you will be safe.

I always keep each chapter in a separate file. When I want the whole book (or as much of it as I've written) just to look at, or to send out for critique, I expand the Master document and Voila! there it is, correctly paginated and everything.

I have to admit--I use WordPerfect, not MSWord. It occurred to me that MSWord might not have this feature, though that seemed unlikely, so I searched around and found the help topics. While I didn't think the instructions were terribly clear, I was able, in about an hour, to figure them out, take a copy of my first novel that I'd converted to MSWord, change it to a Master document, and then condense it, creating all forty-one MSWord chapter documents, and shrinking the "book" file down to 40k.

As I said, I don't generally use MSWord. Though the WordPerfect version works just fine, it's possible that this feature in MSWord is super-buggy, or something. But it's there, and it seems to work in the time I gave it. And certainly people have no good excuse for writing 200 page chapters.

Think about it. If I had 30 chapters and 5 versions of each chapter I'd have a file with 150 documents in it. That would be insane! How do people do that? I would go nuts. And that wouldn't include auxiliary documents like chapter summaries, synopsis, snippets, queries... Yikes. *shudders at the thought*

And I also recommend Mozy. It's free and it's automatic. Computers do get stolen, you know. Floods and stuff happen. Why take a chance?

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 15, 2007).]

Wait! I just read the other thread that sparked this one. When you said

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I don't use the master document function because all of the documents have to be in the same file

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They do? I think that if you create a master document from something like a complete novel, it will automatically put all the subdocuments in a single folder, true. But if you create a master document and add subdocuments, they can be anywhere. So if your "Chapter1" folder has a file in it called "print" (which is just a duplicate of your latest version), your master document could link to "...\Chapter1\print.doc" and include the right thing each time. Also, this way, if you create a new chapter between 1 and 2, called "Chapter1.1" (as suggested by KayTi), you just create a new subdocument between chap 1 and 2 that links to "...\Chapter1.1\print.doc" and it will put that chapter in the right place. Use the automatic chapter numbering described in the other thread by lehollis, and when you expand the master document you'll have the whole book with properly numbered chapters. Who cares if the chapter in your file "Chapter2/print.doc" is actually chapter 3? It's in order, and it's got the right number when you print it.

[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited December 15, 2007).]

(Tests that work do not prove the product works. They only show that, if there are bugs, the tests did not expose them.)

Does anyone know if the feature is reliable?

I set up a folder for each chapter and keep the revisions (and I am a bit obsessive about keeping ALL my revisions).

As I mentioned, Kayti's naming protocol is perfectly logical except that I already use the extensions for revision numbers and I don't want to change that.

I never tried to set up a master document with existing files. You might be correct that it would work. I thought they had to be in the same folder as well. I'll go experiment and see.

Is there any advantage to using a master document as opposed to just inserting the files?

Edit: Ok, on the whether the files have to be in the same folder or not--this is from the Word Help on master documents:

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If you want to use existing Microsoft Word documents as subdocuments, move these existing documents into the folder.

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So I do believe that they have to be in the same folder even if they are existing documents.

[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited December 16, 2007).]

Oh, well. I guess I'll just stick with WordPerfect on this.

Of course, for anyone who has all their chapter files in one folder anyway, this might still be useful.

Oh, for what it's worth, I've only got Word 2000. So the feature can't be all that new. (That still doesn't mean that it works very well, obviously, but it suggests that any bugs--by which I mean problems the programmers didn't intend, as opposed to simple design flaws--might actually be worked out in more recent versions.)

--Ah, but now I see from the other thread that the master document feature is specifically listed as one that is likely to corrupt files. (Thanks, TaleSpinner.)

If any WordPerfect users out there are writing novels, however, and are NOT using the master document feature, I strongly recommend it. It's convenient, easy to use, and lets you have smaller files. But MSWord people should probably avoid it.

It's not that I'm particularly attached to Word, but that's how my readers normally give me all of their line edits and suggestions so those features are an absolute necessity--besides which they use Word. So I'm probably stuck with it whether I want to be or not.

And unfortunately, WP's Change Tracker thingy is one of the few things I've come across in WP that's buggy. I tried using it a number of times, and each time the file eventually wound up getting corrupted. Word has the edge on that one.

I use them constantly. And unfortunately since all my readers use Word, I suspect I would lose the tracking and comments in coverting the files between formats, although I can't be sure. That's just the way those things usually work.

I have no particular reason to switch at the moment, however it means that when I eventually decide to update I can consider that as an alternative... and it's good information for others.

However I suppose as long as the Change Tracker is buggy in WP, I actually wouldn't. As you say, for critiquing, Word definitely seems to have the edge at the moment. And that's too important to give up.

quote:

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GMail Drive is a Shell Namespace Extension that creates a virtual filesystem around your Google Mail account, allowing you to use Gmail as a storage medium.
GMail Drive creates a virtual filesystem on top of your Google Gmail account and enables you to save and retrieve files stored on your Gmail account directly from inside Windows Explorer. GMail Drive literally adds a new drive to your computer under the My Computer folder, where you can create new folders, copy and drag'n'drop files to.

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Backups have to be reliable.

This tool is expressly not guaranteed reliable either by Google or by its maker.

The GMail help centre at http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=13107 says:

"Using third party software applications that interact with Gmail directly violates the Terms of Use that all users must agree to before creating a Gmail account. Google does not endorse any third party applications meant to interact with Gmail, and we will not provide support for them."

The blurb at http://viksoe.dk/code/gmail.htm says:

"... changes in the Gmail system may break the tool's ability to function. I cannot guarantee that files stored in this manner will be accessible in the future."

And

"Be aware that support for this tool may suspend at any time if Google decides to block its use."

Am I missing something?

Once many moons ago (before USB drives) the Falcon story file had gotten so large that I was zipping it and carrying it between the home computer and office computer on a 3.5 disk. Of course, the Zip file was contaminated and the most recent version on the home computer was eaten by it. $300.000 later a tech managed to retreive most of the file. Sigh. Hence the many many copies.

You break the story into chapters when writing the first draft??? Wow. That's not a skill I have. I write it all as one blob and then when editing go back and put the chapters in where the breaks fall.

Yep, we are. I've learned that if ever I get complacent and forget to back things up (because the machinery of the day is so reliable compared to what went before) something happens and I spend forever recreating what was lost and cursing myself and promising myself faithfully that I will remember to back things up forever more. Until the next time ...