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Author Topic: Is my premise believable?
TheOnceandFutureMe
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I've been kicking around an idea for a novel, wherein people experimenting with string theory accidentally start to merge our dimension and another dimension. In this other dimension, the first law of thermodynamics does not apply. Therefore, with the dimensions merging, combustion is slowing to a complete stop. This means no guns, no fire, no power (for the most part). Once combustions slows enough, everyone will die because cell respiration requires combustion (or something like that, I don't have my notes in front of me). I'm still deciding whether there are creatures in this other dimension that is merging with ours.


The novel itself would actually be about a small town surviving, and then trying to reverse this.

My question is: Is this believable? Have you already said that there is no way you could buy this? Is it enough to say that there is no combustion in this other dimension, or do I need to come up with a reason for it? Any ideas on a reason?

The novel itself would actually be about a small town surviving, and then trying to reverse this merging before it is too late.


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Wolfe_boy
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Wow, slow day at work for me... I'm hitting refresh on the main page a little too often.

Well, from an outside perspective - not knowing you or how you'll deal with the heavy science you're invoking here, I'd have to say this sounds a little implausible. For one, I don't know that the first law of thermodynamics deals with combustion per se, but with the conservation of energy. A dimension where the first law did not apply would not just have no combustion, it would be a fundamentally different place. Applying the fact that there is no longer any conservation of energy in our universe would have significant repercussions beyond "Darn, my gun won't fire" or "Sorry Billy, but I can't heat up your beans for dinnah tonight", or even "I'm sorry ma'am, but your dog died because its cells could no longer process glucose due to a suspension of the first law of thermodynamics."

The point I'm trying to get to is that, for this kind of science fiction, you need to have the science part down cold. Like, dead fish kind of cold. And I'm not really getting that impression.

Okay, my second thought is, why are a bunch of small town bumpkins the only people in the world who could rescue us? I'd hope that some big-brain working at MIT or maybe for NASA would be hard at work at this problem, not some farmers working to convert their harvesters into trans-dimensional condensers hoping to separate the constituent elements of the different dimensions. Also, if everyone else on the planet is dead or frozen or starving or whatever, why aren't these people? Is someone in town a superhero? Is this the last residence for the immortal gods of civilizations past, doomed to live out eternity in mid-western obscurity?

So, to finally answer your question: "Have you already said that there is no way you could buy this?"

Yes.

Jayson Merryfield


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JustInProse
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Well, I know very little about how possible this is, but I do like the premise.

The idea of vehicles, guns, fires, all of those things dying out intriques me more than humans dying, if that really makes sense.

Watching how they deal with complete de-evolution of science could open a lot of interesting doors.

A big question I have, even thought I don't understand it all exactly is this: How can they reverse it if nothing works? If someone merges the two dimensions, it's hard for me to believe that it could be unmerged without using some type of thermodynamics.

Of course, I don't know a lot about it, so it could easily be possible, but I was just wondering that.


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rstegman
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I am throwing some stuff on the wall to see what sticks.

Getting the science right is always the hard part, but it might be a way to do the story.

Eliminating entire physical laws is not necessary. There are easier ways to go.

What one might have is more a slight change in how atoms interact. Hydrogen and carbon bonds might become less efficiant, either binding stronger or lighter than normal. This makes fossil fuels less useful as fuel. Cars and trucks exploding, or their spark plugs not getting hot enough to cause a reaction. This also effects cell chemistry. we find we are starving to death as normal chemistry is not breaking and combining compounds properly for cellular functions.
The rule change would require less a suspension of disbelief to work. Other atoms would be effected, but to different levels. I am thinking that a slight percent is added to the electron bonds and as the atoms get larger, the effect is less evident. cancelled out by other factor.
Another thing might be the subatomic forces might have changed. The strength of a single quark might throw things off dramatically. All sorts of physical changes might be effected by that.

Also consider that the effect is really local at the moment, expanding a mile a day. It might be really strong around the accellerator which was "eaten" by the hole. It would not take too long to eat an entire city, leaving the surrounding land un touched. That would leave the local town to have to deal with the problem. Of course, you would have federal and state officials moving in immediately.


this is all assuming this is on our planet. If it is on the colony planet, then there might not be any other government outside what was in the city. Then the locals would have to deal with it.

I am thinking that mass slows down the process. it is eating into the surface of the planet so is going slow. Skyscrapers would also slow the changes. If the locals had access to serious earth moving equipment, they might load them up, send them in at speed to try to plug the hole. Their momentum might carry them far enough to do damage. This would work if the hole was at the side of a cliff and they can get the machines to the top and drop into the site at.



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TheOnceandFutureMe
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Wolfe-boy -

I see your first point. I guess stating that entire first law would be gone was incorrect. I'm mainly thinking that there is no combustion. I want to explore a world where combustion has ceased.

To your second point - I've got it under control. I see where you're coming from, and that shouldn't be an issue.

rstegman-

quote:
Also consider that the effect is really local at the moment, expanding a mile a day. It might be really strong around the accellerator which was "eaten" by the hole. It would not take too long to eat an entire city, leaving the surrounding land un touched. That would leave the local town to have to deal with the problem. Of course, you would have federal and state officials moving in immediately.

This is exactly what I was planning. The "infected" zone is slowly expanding, and the government is also trying to deal with it. (And thanks for the further ideas).


So, is saying that combustion does not exist in this other dimension any more plausible than saying that thermodynamics doesn't? What if I explore the issue at a more molecular level, finding a specific break in the chain of reactions that cause combustion?


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tnwilz
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You can absolutely do things like this. It’s all in the approach. If you lack the ability to make your premise sound scientifically logical than you just use a protagonist that would inherently not particularly understand and would accept minimal explanation from the scientists of the story. Like the protag in Deja-Vu by Bill Marsilii, or the protag from Sphere etc. Some authors do explain their fictional science because the concept is somewhat logical and interesting to them. Mostly this is, of course, hardcore Sci-Fi which I typically enjoy less than the more conventional Sci-Fi.

Did you ever see, The Day the Earth stood still? Similar concept I think.


Tracy

Edited to appease Chayne who, ironically couldn't resist expressing a political opinion herself.

And yes, I'm telling Dr Laura what you said about her.

[This message has been edited by tnwilz (edited April 10, 2008).]


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Cheyne
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TOaFM:This sounds like a good story idea. Run with it. I agree with the idea of dumming down the explanation to your MC's level. Unless he's a Physicist there is no reason to get overly technical. But be careful with that; your explanation must sound reasonable to your average reader. If you use things like natural laws(thermodynamics)incorrectly you may get in trouble with nit picky SF snobs.

Tracy: good comments above your signature but please don't infect yet another post with this nationalistic Bull****.
Listening to Rush and Dr. Laura don't make you seem more American just less tasteful.


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TheOnceandFutureMe
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Thanks for the input, everyone.
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