posted
This is also about DREAMER'S ROSE. This book has two interweaving stories.
Female MC has a sort of small domestic quest--to rescue her family--which turns out to involve issues that are a lot bigger than she anticipated.
Male MC has more of a character story. But the crisis point (the real start of his story) happens approximately a hundred years before the femal MC's story starts (because he's not exactly human anymore).
Both stories end up having the same solution/conclusion.
I wrestled with this the first time through and finally decided that I just couldn't tell his whole story. It was the right decision. But now I'm thinking that I at least need to show that crisis. Because there's a gap of about a century, it would pretty much have to be a prologue.
Now, I try to avoid prologues like the plague. But this just may be a case where I really need one.
Huh. I don't know if I'm asking a question or just airing my thoughts so I can look at them.
posted
Prologues are alright, if there seems to be a reason to have one.
I'm not sure if this will fit your story, but I was reading a story once where there was the main story line with every other chapter dedicated to the back story (childhood) of the MC. I thought it worked out well. It may depend on how much space you want to dedicate to that part of your story and how well it ties in with your ending.
posted
I tried the first time to write the backstory for the male MC. Tried and tried and tried again. While the some of the stuff that happened is relevant to this story--and does come out at the proper time--most of it just doesn't have any tension. Not until this crisis point. Well, there may be another point at which his story becomes interesting, now that I think of it. Either way, it's going to be in the nature of a prologue because it's so far in advance of the rest of the story. In fact, if I go to the other potentially interesting point, it goes back about 500 years. But time wouldn't seem the same to him at that point, so maybe I could make it work. In fact, he might not even realize that it had been that long. Hmm.
I think my antipathy to prologues comes from my series, where I'm trying not to need them. I want each book in the series to stand on it's own. And I don't want to use an info-dumpy prologue to set up the world instead of bringing it out as part of the story. But this is part of the story, I think.
[This message has been edited by Meredith (edited February 01, 2010).]
posted
Why not divide the novel into 3 parts or acts? Literally type Part I for the early portion of the male MC, Part II for the latter female portion, and then Part III for when the two converge? Or, use a flashback. Or lump it and use the prologue.
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posted
The male MC's character arc goes something like this:
Nearly invincible, succeeds at everything he tries (and therefore boring). This is the part I finally decided just not to write.
He finally succeeds in becoming completely invincible as well as immortal, at the same time rising to a position where he is no longer infallible. In fact he proves to be very fallible. And he doesn't know how to handle it, because he never failed before. (This starts to get interesting.)
He finally fails so spectacularly that he withdraws from everything. This is the crisis and what I'm considering putting in the prologue.
Enter the female character. When he starts helping her, things start to turn around for him, too. Completing the task he failed at before solves her problem, too. And creates another, but that part I'm not having any trouble with.
posted
In the last year I came across three stories with prologues that I can recall. In all three examples (by no means a perfect demographic!) the prologue served to define the story type (SF/Fantasy & MICE quotient), because the "story proper" starts in another place and time.
Armageddon (movie) - the prologue defines it as an SF event story; the main character's story starts on an oil rig. Mirror of Her Dreams (novel) - the prologue defines it as a fantasy event/character story; the main character's story starts in an apartment in New York. Matter (novel) - the prologue defines it as an SF milieu/character story; the opening chapter would otherwise make it look like a fantasy.
Now that's not to say a prologue isn't useful in other uses. But I wonder (not knowing the story well): If the male MC's backstory becomes critical to everyone around him (as I suspect it would), would it not make sense then to have the reader find out as everyone else does?
[This message has been edited by BenM (edited February 01, 2010).]
quote:Now that's not to say a prologue isn't useful in other uses. But I wonder (not knowing the story well): If the male MC's backstory becomes critical to everyone around him (as I suspect it would), would it not make sense then to have the reader find out as everyone else does?
Well, that's kind of what I've done so far. Unfortunately, I end up having a real dump of past info around 2/3 of the way through, when it all comes to a head. I really don't like that much, either.
I could, however, have say two or three chapters, rather than a prologue, from the earlier time. Then I just have to figure out a way to make it clear that a bunch of time has past when I start the next segment of the story. That might get a little tricky.
There's not going to be any question, right from the beginning, that this is a fantasy.
posted
Could you tell snippets along the way in the form of flashbacks? Then you wouldn't have the info dump problem and it might negate the need for a prologue.
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quote:Could you tell snippets along the way in the form of flashbacks? Then you wouldn't have the info dump problem and it might negate the need for a prologue.
Yes, and to an extent, I do. The reason for the info dump is that, up until that point, even the MC doesn't remember a large chunk of his past. That's when the dump takes place. But that's telling.
Until the MC regains his memory, the only POV character who knows even most of it is the antagonist. And he doesn't really have any reason to reveal it to anyone. In fact, he's got a d*&%$# good reason to conceal it.
If I put it in a prologue or a couple of initial chapters, I can show it, instead of telling it.
You see, this is really helping me figure out what the story really needs--and why. I'm thinking more and more of starting with three (give or take) initial chapters and then finding a way to show the passage of time. At that point, with his memory gone, the MC won't realize that that much time has passed, so I'll have to come up with something. I don't know if I can work it into what is currently the first chapter. But I'm sure that I can in what is currently the second chapter.
posted
If I misunderstood the storyline please feel free to correct me.
If those first three chapters are using the POV of a character that will continue to be used as a POV character (regardless of time between events), then that may work better than a prologue.
One thing I dislike about many prologues is that they are often merely history lessons, pure info dump. In those cases I will often get a few paragraphs in and then skip to the first chapter.
I think the big reason why so many prologues fail in my eyes is that the characters in prologues are not characters in the novel itself. As I said above, they are history lessons and if by some chance I get "emotionally attached" to said characters, I am not happy when Chapter One starts and I have to get familiar with yet another set of characters.
Normally I do not like using prologues. However, I have decided to do a prologue in one of my current projects. The difference here is that the MC in the prologue is the MC for the entire book. Thus, the reader can get "emotionally attached" to that prologue character and not feel jerked around by having to become attached to yet another character when Chapter One starts.
posted
I have no problems with prologues as long as they are interesting and not info dumps. But other people have given good suggestions too for not going the prologue route. So do whatever you think is best for the story.
posted
I think if it's short I think most people will read it. (Even people who say they do not read prologues.) Also it should feel like it belongs in the story, I've read some that seem so remote from the real story that it feels like a it should have been a book by itself.
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posted
I don't like unnecessary prologues, prologues so vague that they serve only to confuse the reader. But go read the prologue for A Game of Thrones. That, in my opinion, is a prologue done right. It's important for the overall story, and sets the stage for things to come. The rule "avoid prologues like the plague" only applies if the prologue is completely irrelevant to the rest of the book.
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posted
I don't understand why you need to show the man's past. Going off what you described here, it seems that his encounter with the female is an inciting crisis, so you could show us (readers) his apathy and invincibility, tell us about his previous failure, and let us make the connections. This would set the status quo from which he'll change from apathetic to something else.
His past looks to me like a separate story. You could even write a short story and hope it sells before your novel does.
posted
I guess I should mention info dumps aren't always bad. I've seen long stretches of telling work well in a story. The best place for such seems to be when the reader already feels a need for the information and a need for a breather from fast-paced action.
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posted
I had a similar situation with my novel-in-very-slow-progress... For me, I kept adding to the back story and soon I just tabled the first project and started writing the prologue as it's own complete novel. Ever thought of that?
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posted
... or even it's own short story, to be published in a trade magazine prior to your novel's release Posts: 496 | Registered: May 2009
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Fortunately, I've about convinced myself that it's not exactly a prologue. It'll probably be three chapters and then I'll have to find some way to show the passage of time.
At any rate, it won't hurt me to write it. I can always cut it again in the next revision.
posted
I'm not sure I agree with a number of Agent Kristin reasons. In summary, here are her reasons for disliking prolog.
1. When the sole purpose of the prologue is to fill the reader in on the back story so the real story can begin.
2. They are too long.
3. When the prologue is in a whole different style or voice from the rest of the manuscript.
4. When the prologue is solely there to provide an action scene to “draw the reader in” but then serves no other purpose or is not connected to the main story arc or is only loosely so.
5. When the prologue introduces the evil character simply so the reader can “know” what is at stake.
6. When the prologue is supposed to be cool (or I might reword this to say the writer thinks it sounds cool).
Points 2, 6 and to a large extent 4 can be applied to anywhere in a novel - they are not evils of prolog, but evils of writing. The opening scene of The Matrix is essentially prolog of the nature of 4, 5 and 6.
Point 5 she claims is the definition of clumsy writing. Maybe for character driven stories (even then...) but not necessarily true for milieu, idea or action driven stories. This can easily be done badly, and probably is by a lot of (particularly beginning) writers, but sometimes it is the exact opposite - efficient writing. The problem with this one is that a lot of poorly written books have done this, so it has a bad name by association.
Point 3 I very much disagree with. Done well, it can create a layer of interpretation that enhances the story and helps tune the reader to look for specific meaning that would be missed when going straight to, for example, a close nit POV. The equivalent in short stories is starting with poetry - some people hate that, but some people use it to enhance their enjoyment.
Point 1 - well, no-one likes poorly written infodumps, but it does turn on what she means by the "real story". In many cases, the real story does begin in the prolog, only it is a different aspect of the real story.
I think that the essence of point 1, 3, 4 and 5 is that it gets the reader to start again at Chapter 1. However, there are many stories where the reader has to start again at Chapter 2 because it is done from a different POV, and weaves an entirely different plot. So I don't agree that this is a valid reason to dislike prolog, it's really a dislike of a broader principle - multistranding.
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