posted
So my current WIP is about a society made up completely of robots, except for the protagonist. However, instead of the usual “collectiveness” that a lot of robot stories have, these robots are all about individualism. They aren't “robotic,” really; instead, almost everything about them is enhanced from normal humans—-they have stronger emotions, and value individualism to the point where they don't have friends or families. So my question is: How would a purely individualistic (maybe even anarchist) society function—-with its politics, business, etc.?
My story isn't really about their society at all, and it's a short story so I won't be spending a great amount of time on world-building. Still, as the writer I feel I need to know how it would all work, and I'm not an expert on politics or political states, so any ideas would be appreciated. Is it possible for an individualistic society to even have a political structure?
posted
That's a tough one. I feel that in an extremely individualistic society it would be rare for anyone to feel satisfied letting someone else "rule" them or make their political decisions. Relationships and interactions would all be about "How will this benefit me?" (In a lot of ways we're not far from this ourselves these days...) Might be possible to have some "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" system, but I don't know. I'm not huge on politics myself.
(Edited because redundancy is redundant)
[This message has been edited by karriezai (edited August 23, 2011).]
posted
It never hurts to do some research on things you plan to use in your books . I'm sure there are plenty of us who could offer some insights on human political systems, but the question is do you want a story about robots behaving exactly like humans?
If on an individual level you know what really makes your robot characters different from their human analogue, then the challenge is to expand that difference and see how it applies on a larger social and political scale.
Do robots value their individuality above the need for individuals to sometimes subsume their own needs for the benefit of the community as a whole? If they've taken their individuality to an extreme no healthy human society would take it then the larger impact could be anything from a lack of any sort of standard operating procedure to complete anarchy, again depending on the traits of the robots.
Another question is would robots respond to a crisis the way many humans do, by forming a mob and getting carried away to the point that they commit terrible atrocities. Maybe the robots value their individuality so much that there is no set, easily identifiable governing body they submit to, but they lack the human selfishness and ability to dehumanize victims and so even in crisis they would never invite chaos and become predators on their own neighbors.
Or maybe they would. Maybe in their individuality they're completely unable to conceive of themselves as a group, and it's every man for themselves unless their goals are perfectly in line with the goals of other robots.
Or maybe they all have the same source code and ability to communicate wirelessly at great speeds, so each individual is able to do his own thing yet still mesh seamlessly with the community as a whole. In such a system in times of crisis they could put aside their individuality for a time and all act as one for the benefit of the group.
posted
Look up Objectivism. Ayn Rand's thoughts on individualism vs collectivism put the typical views on their heads. In Atlas Shrugged, one of the characters has created a community similar to what you are describing.
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posted
I think there would be minimal government, kind of just a bare bones needed to keep maintance up of roads and stuff like that and also to keep law and order.
Assuming that robots can be criminals, but maybe robots don't commit crimes. If that is the case and there are no humans, they may not even need laws.
posted
Look at Ancient Greece. True democracy is an attempt at a political system that is based on the individual. The Representative Republic that we use was actually developed by Rome many centuries later.
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posted
The three ends of the spectrum is government has say in absolutely everything. In a robot society, half their brain might be the main computer.
The government is strictly to settle disputes. everything else is up to the individuals and those they can associate with - roads would be either be all toll roads, or in a city, one pays a tax as your agreed portion of the road. Everything else in society is by contract or by choosing who you do work with. More people willing to do business with you the better you do.
Edited to add that the master computer might be the judge, having every law at full access for settling disputes.
The third end is where there is no government and one has to settle your own dispute possibly by joining a gang.
[This message has been edited by rstegman (edited August 24, 2011).]
posted
I see government as the people agreeing to do as a collective what they can't do as individuals---common defense, the monetary system, enforcing agreed-on rules of conduct (i. e. "laws,") and so on.
I'd go into greater length, but it's likely to veer into areas of politics that are off-limits on the boards.
For "enhanced humans" (or robots), more individualistic than humans, maybe such a government would be impossible...it would probably have to be considerably more limited than, say, our own...you see a lot of these "enhanced human" societies that seem like basic socialism, capitalism having gone by the wayside...
posted
When you say they are hyper-individualists, what exactly do you mean? Do they have a total disregard for the needs and feelings of others? Or are they just extremely indepedent and free-spirited?
As I understand it, true political anarchy isn't about wild chaotic abandon...its about each person being entirely their own governor and yet still having respect for that same freedom in others.
I'd be a bit careful with Rand and Objectivism. She considered basically anything with a whiff of concern for anyone beyond the self to be "collectivism" and horrible and awful. And she would not support individualism or freedom that involved anyone choosing to do anything positive or helpful for someone else...Objectivists have sometimes used the slogan "Service is Slavery with a Smile." I'm not saying don't check it out...it's just my opinion that Rand's views had more to do with simple selfishness than any sort of enlightened individualism.
posted
Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably steer clear of Objectivism specifically; Anthem by Rand is one of my favorite books, but her philosophy doesn't quite sit well with me. I have been doing some political research on my own, but I figure there are people on Hatrack who have spent a lot more time studying this type of stuff.
I'm not really trying to make any political statement with my story, but I guess I could be a little more specific. A century before my story starts, the humans were at war. Instead of fighting the humans, the robots sort of just sat back and watched us destroy ourselves, and then picked off the remains--they're a bit sinister like that. At this point, I'm leaning toward the idea that these robots lack human selfishness and dishonesty, so yes they are individualistic, but not to the extent of hurting other robots physically or emotionally. This way I have emotional robots who aren't exactly like humans, and who can form a more "advanced" society, but lack friends and family. I like the idea that their government is very minimal, and that they logically see the need for some small bodies like business, etc. Am I making sense?
Of course, this isn't really what the story is "about." Also, I was looking into some Nietzsche, and I think these robots see themselves as the Ubermensch, or "Overmen." I already had the basis of this idea in my head long before I did the research, but then I just happened upon Nietzsche--isn't it lovely when inspiration works like that?
[This message has been edited by Winters (edited August 24, 2011).]
quote:Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably steer clear of Objectivism specifically; Anthem by Rand is one of my favorite books, but her philosophy doesn't quite sit well with me. I have been doing some political research on my own, but I figure there are people on Hatrack who have spent a lot more time studying this type of stuff.
I read "Anthem" when I was a teenager. At first I liked it, thinking it a nice dystopian story in the vein of "Farenheitt 451", "Brave New World" etc, speaking out against the evils of society trying to homogenize and control people. Then I got to the end. Then I read the, essentially advertisement included in the book for Objectivism. I was borderline traumatized. To me, the story, and in the end, her philosophy are essentially trading one enslavement for another.
quote:At this point, I'm leaning toward the idea that these robots lack human selfishness and dishonesty, so yes they are individualistic, but not to the extent of hurting other robots physically or emotionally. This way I have emotional robots who aren't exactly like humans, and who can form a more "advanced" society, but lack friends and family.
Ok the first part sounds good...emotions, but generally without selfishness and the like, but with a strong sense of self. It's the no friends and family part I don't quite follow. Do they feel love, comraderie? Do they form emotional bonds of any sort?
quote:Of course, this isn't really what the story is "about." Also, I was looking into some Nietzsche, and I think these robots see themselves as the Ubermensch, or "Overmen." I already had the basis of this idea in my head long before I did the research, but then I just happened upon Nietzsche--isn't it lovely when inspiration works like that?
It is, quite. I'm not terribly expert on Nietzsche but I know he was big on the "will to power" and that sort of thing. My curiosity about your robots is, what, exactly, do they do? How do they express their individualism? I assume its a matter of wanting freedom, not wanting to be tied to the needs or wants of a group, but what are their individual wants or goals? The thing that popped into my head when I first saw your post was some sort of Bohemian artist sort of society, where everyone pursues their interests and creativity and individuality without worry, but maybe that isn't what you mean.
It's a very intriguing idea, I'm interested to hear more about it. I realize your setting isn't the focus of your story...but setting is always important, and a society this interesting could easily be saved as a setting for many stories in the future.
posted
I once read an old Sci-fi story (sorry it would take some digging to find it exactly) where there were robots after humanity was long dead. Their society was based on who had the bigger CPU. "I have a level five brain, and you have a level three so I am superior, so get out of my way." And they just accepted that the superior brains were superior.
You could model them on solitary animals who each have their territory and if another one comes near they argue or fight. But as long as they don't come near each other they don't even think about it. They only come together to mate, but your robots wouldn't even need that.
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. I'm sure there are plenty of us who could offer some insights on human political systems, but the question is do you want a story about robots behaving exactly like humans?
