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Author Topic: What if my writing doesn't fit any pro market?
Captain of my Sheep
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I'm a bit mono-thematic but I was reading this old thread and it made me re-think my strategy.

I was under the impression that one should study the market one wishes to submit to. I did that.

I'm not Asimov material. I doubt I'll ever will because most of the stories they publish have little in common with the types of stories I'm writing, and with the stories I enjoy.

Clarkesworld, too. And Beneath Ceaseless Skies. And many more.

The closest pro fit I could find was Apex, but I think my story is too tame for them. I see no reason why an editor for that magazine would think my story would appeal to their readers.

I visited The (Submission) Grinder and it was a huge mistake because, guys, ignorance is bliss.
Apex rejects a whopping 98.57% of the stories they receive, more or less. It's not hard data, I get it.

So, if my story doesn't fit among the stories I see they have published, why would I submit to those market?

What I ended up doing: I looked for a semi-pro market that looked good (well-designed webpage with stories that are easy to read online) with stories I enjoyed. I looked at the submissions guidelines and they also fit my story.

Am I shooting myself in the foot by not submitting to a pro market first? Even if I don't think my story fits their magazine?

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Meredith
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Why are you pre-rejecting yourself? Did you listen to last week's Writing Excuses? It doesn't cost anything but a little time to try--well, except for that handful of markets that takes forever to reply, even with a rejection.
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Captain of my Sheep
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Hi Meredith!

quote:
Why are you pre-rejecting yourself?
That's what´s confusing me, you see. : S I am pre-rejecting myself but I don't feel bad about it. I'm not feeling "I am not worthy of this fantastic magazine," it's more like "My product doesn't deliver what the editors seem to want their stories to deliver."

My story fits the submissions guidelines but isn't anything like the stories that the magazine actually publishes. Not the same tone, not the same approach, not the same anything really, except the fact that it starts fast. And I do see how the stories published fit the same mold, I see similarities between all the published stories, but between those and my own? Not so much.

If I've always been told to read the stories published and I read them and they don't look like mine...then what?

Should I disregard the information I gathered by reading previous issues if the information points to my story not fitting in?

Am I even qualified to make that decision or should I leave that to the editor?

The advice "read the market before submitting" is confusing me a lot. It seemed reasonable in theory but in practice I get responses like yours: Why am I pre-rejecting myself? (A question I ask myself everyday, by the way.)

[ December 28, 2015, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Captain of my Sheep ]

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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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The thing about reading the market before submitting is that they don't want you to send them something totally inappropriate ("no elves and dragons to a science fiction market" idea).

However, if you come up with a very science-fictional rationalization for those elves and dragons, the editor might get a kick out of your story and publish it anyway. (You'd have to make it very clear that it IS science fiction and tone down the elvishness and dragonness - maybe even make it subtle enough that their true nature only becomes clear as the story unfolds - if you catch my drift.)

Remember that editors can only publish what is submitted to them. Something totally off will get an immediate rejection, but something sort-of "on" with a different approach or a new twist actually might have a chance.

If it fits the submission guidelines, but you haven't seen any examples like it in the actual publication, it may mean that your story is something the editor is actually looking for, but not finding.

I'd recommend trying the publication that just might be a fit from the submission guidelines, as a test submission. If it doesn't get snatched up, and the other possibilities are even further from fitting your story, at least you gave it a shot.

Then you can try the semi-pro publication without risking thoughts of "what might have been."

And in the meantime, write more stories. Don't sit around and wait for the response on any story. Keep busy creating more stuff to submit. Who knows? The editor may reject your initial submission with a letter that asks if you have anything else. Be sure you've got something, just in case.

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extrinsic
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The adage, and adage it is more than advice, to read a publication content is only in part to distinguish a house's creative slant. Another rationale is to distinguish a house's content, topic, subject trends, one point of which is restriction of repetitive and derivative stories. How many boy-scout-hero-saves-the-world-from-bug-eyed-monsters stories can a house publish in one or sequential volumes? Maybe one a year, if that. Any similar feature or motif receives the same treatment -- declined. Unless a work transformatively transcends prior works' attainments.

Vampire, zonbi, wizard, fay, teen warrior stories flood the submission pipeline, and now as well, again, dinosaur stories. If a film motif stands out from the theater fray, is a blockbuster film, that motif floods the market. No originality, or freshness at least, is an easy decline and amounts to a large fraction of submissions' outcomes.

Also, houses that report and submission tracker reports of ninety-plus percent decline reflect a shotgun submission custom. The traditional submission advice of submit, submit, submit from top of the market through as low as tolerable until a story sticks somewhere assumes a story is publication worthy when it might not be, probably isn't, and is the shotgun method, scatter shot.

Note that somewhere north of ten million short stories are in the submission pipeline at any given moment and only somewhere south of fifty thousand available slots are open at any given moment, or about .5 percent, or a 99.5 percent decline rate.

Many submissions are so far off topic that they are declined by default. Science fiction submitted to any old house that doesn't publish science fiction will be declined as soon as that becomes clear. Yet non-science fiction houses receive many science fiction submissions and might maybe publish one once in an eon. Likewise, science fiction houses decline stories that aren't, as soon as that becomes clear, though in either case and more, story craft shortfalls usually become obvious much sooner.

On the other hand, and this is paramount, most any house will accept a well-crafted, vivid, lively, and fresh narrative that's not too far off the beaten path of the house's creative inclinations. How far off? Only so far as originality or freshness and craft, and appeal most of all, are paramount.

When reviewing a publication's content, focus on the house's craft and freshness and appeal aptitudes; and acceptance potentials will improve.

Or an allegorical tale: Readers Digest is the top of the serial print market, bar none, in a tier all by itself. The Digest enjoys eight million copies circulation, down from its '90s era peak ten million. The next tier is in the single million copies, like The New Yorker Magazine and Highlights for Children. The Digest's creative slant resolves upon a wholesome, inspirational, easy-to-read and comprehend moral and value system consistent with Western Educated Industrialized Rich Democratic Patriarchal Christian value and belief systems. The Digest's decline is a consequence of digital technology.

The New Yorker's creative slant is somewhat sophisticated narratives about megatropolis living and the consequent conflicts and complications of crowded urban life.

Asimov' circulation is among the top three of fantastic fiction, though attracts only a third of fantastic fiction enthusiasts: about fifteen thousand copies. Asimov's slant is less definable than the Digest's though aligns with similar value and belief systems. Aside from fantastic fiction, which is now as definable as mud, a prominent creative slant feature of Asimov's is thought-provoking adventurousness. Actually, Asimov's reflects the writing of Isaac, which is Golden Age Campbellian influenced; never mind, is also current to present day audiences' likewise fears and desires and conflicts and complications.

Science Fiction and Fantasy and Analog's (the other two houses top of the fantastic market) creative slants align somewhat with Asimov's; a minor difference of degree of fantasy separates the three houses. However, none will decline a well-crafted, lively, vivid, and fresh story, regardless of fantasy metric. Likewise, any house, including our host Orson Scott Card's Intergalatic Medicine Show: well-crafted, vivid, lively and fresh stories' acceptance potentials are greater than poorly-crafted and stale stories.

One, though, creative slant feature resonates across the gamut: about a focused moral human condition. Period.

[ December 28, 2015, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: extrinsic ]

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Robert Nowall
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I don't think anything I write matches what the markets I send to (a) want and (b) publish. But I give it a shot anyway because (a) they're the closest thing to what I write, (b) it costs me no more than time and postage, and (c) after forty years I'm used to rejection.

Plus (d) I might be wrong about it.

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Disgruntled Peony
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I understand where you're coming from, Captain. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to place Ravenous because a lot of venues out and out say they won't accept vampire stories period. Still, unless they outright say they won't accept the kind of story you've written, submitting is still a good idea. You never know when the editor might want something fresh and new.
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Disgruntled Peony
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quote:
Originally posted by extrinsic:
Note that somewhere north of ten million short stories are in the submission pipeline at any given moment and only somewhere south of fifty thousand available slots are open at any given moment, or about .5 percent, or a 99.5 percent decline rate.

I gotta say, that is a depressing statistic. Not really all that surprising, but depressing nonetheless.
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extrinsic
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One house offers somewhat anecdotal statistics about its submission and decline categories: half don't come close to the basic submission guidelines, half are genres the house won't publish, nine out of ten are poorly crafted and matters of grammar glitches too. The one in ten that pass initial muster, nine out of ten have shortfalls that outweigh strengths. The one in a hundred ones that pass all musters compete for slots. The best of one in tens out of ten thousand are accepted.

10,000 submitted
5,000 automatic declines
1000 contenders pass the first cut though are no less declines on the first pass
100 competitors make the second cut
10 placed

Become one of the few.

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Grumpy old guy
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Do not submit a genre the house specifically states as not being acceptable--you'll just piss them off, and they do have memories.

Next question: Are you writing to write or to get published? If the answer is the latter, do your research--Vampires are so passé nowadays. If it is the former, then I'm sure you'll find a publishing house that'll accept your submission at least. It may not be top tier, or even fifth tier, but if accepted, at least you'll start to get your name out there. All publication credits count for something--so long as they aren't school ones.

Phil.

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Captain of my Sheep
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Thank you everyone for replying! [Cool]

quote:
The thing about reading the market before submitting is that they don't want you to send them something totally inappropriate ("no elves and dragons to a science fiction market" idea).
I'm having an Oh-moment, thank you Kathleen. [Smile]
I'm going to follow your advice and submit to the pro market first. I highly doubt they'll want the story, but like you said, I don't want to have "what might have been" thoughts later.

I have another story to take from 2nd to 3rd draft. I had another new story I was working on when I hit a bit of a "what I write is stupid"-patch. I'll get over it eventually. (I hope) I want to try something different with this story and I can't hone in on what yet. I'm a bit overwhelmed. But yes, I won't sit around and wait for a response. [Wink]
quote:
When reviewing a publication's content, focus on the house's craft and freshness and appeal aptitudes; and acceptance potentials will improve.
Extrinsic, that's what I thought I was doing. The answer I found was: They will not like my story. Now I don't think I'm even qualified to make such a decision so I'm going to submit anyway.

This submitting thing has been taking so much brainspace.

My decision to submit was like taking one jenga brick from a huge tower I'd been building this past year. My writing was balancing just fine until I pulled out that "submitting" brick. Now all my bricks are on the floor. It feels like I have to start all over.

quote:
I understand where you're coming from, Captain. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to place Ravenous because a lot of venues out and out say they won't accept vampire stories period.
That's weird, I only saw one market that explicitly said "no vampires." I'm going to send you a link for a few markets I found, maybe some of those will be a good fit.

quote:
10,000 submitted
5,000 automatic declines
1000 contenders pass the first cut though are no less declines on the first pass
100 competitors make the second cut
10 placed

Still better odds than winning the lottery...I think.

[ December 29, 2015, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Captain of my Sheep ]

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extrinsic
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain of my Sheep:
quote:
When reviewing a publication's content, focus on the house's craft and freshness and appeal aptitudes; and acceptance potentials will improve.
Extrinsic, that's what I thought I was doing. The answer I found was: They will not like my story. Now I don't think I'm even qualified to make such a decision so I'm going to submit anyway.
Submission in such a state of mind is akin to a dress rehearsal, see if all the essentials are accounted for by someone else's perspective. A way to develop a franker merit perspective is to immerse in the role of screening reader. Consider a "binge" read of, say, authonomy.com submissions.

A screening reader assesses several hundred submissions a day, is usually an unpaid intern, and is worked five days a week like a corporate mail room clerk and gopher. Read submissions until your eyes bleed. Note common features: weak grammar, poor craft, bland emotion and voice, as much appeal as a carton of dirt. Do that for as much as you can stand and do some more. No shortage of mediocre, at best, submissions at authonomy. Since authonomy's inception, HarperCollins has accepted a handful of novels out of hundreds of thousands submitted to authonomy.

For a short story submission pool similar to authonomy, Baen's Bar comes close. Or Amazon's Create Space self-published fiction, which may cost a few pennies each story to assess. Read, though, free samples and previews.

Do this whenever the fancy strikes, do it for a while, do it often, do it until it becomes intolerable then becomes second nature and routine; soon, intangible strengths will stand out from the fray.

Daily Science Fiction's selections, better by degrees than the mediocre fray, more refined anyway, are worth a follow, too. Our axeminister's recent publication there is worth a close read. Link to Hatrack thread of Dustin Adams' "A New Man in Time for Christmas" The story is tangibly about a robot spouse replacement timely arrived for Christmas. The narrow and focused moral human condition topic of partner objectification, though, is the intangible "What the story is really about" and far more appealing feature of the short story.

That kind of topic and focus is the present endeavor of my study, what some might label "theme," though is only a fraction about theme itself, is also moral human condition and conflict and complication and crisis thereof and more.

And Flash Fiction Online.

Anyway, this is how passionate writers learn the craft's finer points: study the competition and also-rans and mediocres.

[ December 29, 2015, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: extrinsic ]

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Disgruntled Peony
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quote:
Originally posted by Grumpy old guy:
Are you writing to write or to get published? If the answer is the latter, do your research--Vampires are so passé nowadays. If it is the former, then I'm sure you'll find a publishing house that'll accept your submission at least. It may not be top tier, or even fifth tier, but if accepted, at least you'll start to get your name out there. All publication credits count for something--so long as they aren't school ones.

Phil.

It's a bit of both, really, on my part. I enjoy writing; I'd like to do it for a living someday. I know vampire stories are passé these days and have been for awhile. I just didn't realize how passé they were, I guess.

Ahh well. Ravenous got stuck in my head and refused to leave until I wrote it. Even if it never sells I'm still proud of it, because it was the first story I'd finished in years and I put a lot of effort into it. It's just a matter of keeping up the effort with other stories and not letting the odds get me down, I suppose.

quote:
Originally posted by Captain of my Sheep:
That's weird, I only saw one market that explicitly said "no vampires." I'm going to send you a link for a few markets I found, maybe some of those will be a good fit.

A lot of the markets I've found say they'll be hard sells, which basically means "we don't want them".

Thanks for the link! I'll look it over in detail later this evening. [Smile]

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Captain of my Sheep
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quote:
Consider a "binge" read of, say, authonomy.com submissions.
Extrinsic, it appears this site has closed. [Frown] I'll check out the rest of the sites you mentioned, though. I think, for now, I'm happy taking small and infrequent tours into Smashwords. All your advice about binge-reading stories of all qualities is great. It's something I'm already doing with novels and that I was starting to do with short stories.

quote:
Our axeminister's recent publication there is worth a close read.
I read it when it came out! I enjoyed it but I don't write like that. I can't write that story, or a lot of the sci-fi stories that come out of DSF. The fantasy ones, maybe. But it looks like I'm not a science fiction writer or the type of fantasy writer they like. Which is why I said I believed no pro magazines were a good fit for my story. To be honest, I don't know what I am. I know what I'd like to be: writing. Writing has become impossible. My brain has this huge, loud thought: "YOU ARE WRITING UNMARKETABLE CRAP THAT YOU LIKE."

My Achilles heel is that I'm the type of person that goes from a crawl to a hard sprint in a day, and then wonders why the hell she's feeling so overwhelmed and wants to quit something she loves. It happens to me every couple of months. I've written only three stories and finished only one. It seems like the more I think about markets, the less I want to write.

I will keep reading publications because short stories are fun to read, but I'm going to chill about the analyzing until I've finished more stories. I'm going to send that story and forget about selling for a while. Maybe I wasn't ready to do it at all. Or maybe this is like the moment before a nurse pinches you with an needle: it looks like it's going to hurt a lot but then it doesn't. shrugs

quote:
Next question: Are you writing to write or to get published?
I don't know to which person this question was addressed to, me or Disgruntled Peony, but I'm going to answer anyway. I would like to keep writing and having fun with it. I'd like to improve year after year. I'd like to understand how to make awesome stories. As I do all that, I want to get published.
It all sounds quite philosophical and hippie-like, but I'm methodical and a perfectionist, so all that will involve a lot of analyzing, studying and reading grammar books and books on writing.

[ December 30, 2015, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: Captain of my Sheep ]

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extrinsic
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authonomy did close this past fall, September 2015. The site was a fun do-it-yourself "slush" pile with a covert link to self-publication commodification. Tel est la vie d'escritur.

Doubt about one's writing is a sign a hurdle is about to be overcome.

For me, the doubts I have are about audience appeal and too broad horizons. The more I define my ideal audience of one, the narrower the target niche. Yet the writers I admire most transcended their broad horizons through intense specificity and innovation and appealed widely.

On the question of vampire genre marketability. Vampire was all but dead after Bram Stoker's depiction of idle, predatory aristocracy had run its course, until Anne Rice reinvented the motif. Vampire was again all but dead until Stephenie Meyer reinvented the motif. A regency age to a renewed gilded age, to an urban-contemporary age, to a next era that awaits reinvention in the wings. One feature of the motif marks all three and a future of vampire genre: social elitism.

Stoker reinvented a Southeastern Europe peasant folk legend critical of aristocratic elitism about the age of aristocracy. Rice reinvented the motif to reflect Southern Gothic old-money's sway and pro-elitism. Meyer reinvented the motif to reflect contemporary urban affluence and pro-elitism.

Next? Humans no less strive for elitism, generally, regardless of way station in life. Pro-elitism or anti-elitism? Or both and more? Overt pro-elitism, covert anti-elitism, and a net appreciation for elitism as a natural human condition that can be navigated and negotiated for the self's ambition and good and the common good, or similar. Note that elitism incites vice: greed, pride, envy, gluttony, sloth, lust, and wrath -- moral human conditions.

[ December 30, 2015, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: extrinsic ]

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LDWriter2
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Hmm, I am late to this party Most if not everything I would have said has been stated already.

I would add two things, One is most writers-yes that includes pros-have inner critics that come out and play at times. Sometimes all the time. It seems to come with the territory.
We learn and practice and learn and practice. Sometimes are stuff is crap-especially at the beginning-but we learn and practice and repeat and repeat. Some of us take longer than others to learn our lessons. A small handful seem to get it at once.

These days there are all types of markets out there-not all pay pro or pay at all. The idea is to write a story so good some editor will want it even if it's not quite what they usually buy. Yes pro editors have stated that happens.

Finally my other comment. My first thought after reading the title of this thread was in that case make your own. If it really is true that is. Wait a while while you learn and practice and try many markets then sell them yourself.

But as to your statement "I would like to keep writing and having fun with it. I'd like to improve year after year. I'd like to understand how to make awesome stories. As I do all that, I want to get published" I say Right On. Many of us feel that way. I add that I have a story to tell and I want to tell it in a way that people will want to read it.

Now that I said all that I am not sure if all of it was a repeat of what others stated, but I think it dealt with your original question.

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walexander
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It is an affliction that most writers/artists/musicians/poets/etc. hate marketing themselves. Until you get an agent, and even then you will be sent out to help promote your work. Thus the term work, not just a fun hobby, but work, you can love your work, but no matter how you phrase it, it's still work. If you have a dream you have to work hard for it. There are very rarely any hand-outs. Stop trying to second guess what others might think. It's a waste of your writing time. Submit and submit often. What may not be trending today maybe trending tomorrow. Network like crazy. Try and make connects. Follow every lead. Take classes, shop the internet for every piece of advice, filter it, and apply. It's your dream...only you can fight for it...or only you can end it. Your choice.

My two cents, for what it's worth.

W.

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Captain of my Sheep
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LDWriter2, thanks for your reply, you're not too late!
The truth is I just have a gut feeling that my stuff isn't a good fit for the current markets, but I haven't submitted anything yet. I'm going to do what you said: wait. Keep writing, keep submitting and wait for a year, at least. See what happens.

walexander, I dig that "stop trying to second guess what others might think." Thank you for that swift kick in the pants. [Wink] I should put in a reminder on my phone and have that phrase come up at least three times a month.

Thank you everybody for helping me out with this.

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LDWriter2
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain of my Sheep:
LDWriter2, thanks for your reply, you're not too late!
The truth is I just have a gut feeling that my stuff isn't a good fit for the current markets, but I haven't submitted anything yet. I'm going to do what you said: wait. Keep writing, keep submitting and wait for a year, at least. See what happens....

Thank you everybody for helping me out with this.

Good idea. See what the various markets want so you don't send a fantasy to a SF market or steampunk to someone that says no way but at the same time your story doesn't need to be fit one hundred percent to what is stated as they want. In fact some markets have said something along those lines in their guidelines. Some stories are hard to classify these days. In fact I have a couple I am not sure about-the closest might be cyberpunk but that isn't quite right either. I send them to what ever market seems closest.


Have you heard of Writer of the Future contest. Dave Farland the somewhat new executive editor says he wants stories with originality-plot, setting, characters, at least one of those. It's very hard to win in but you have four chances a year.

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extrinsic
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The "pro" tiers of the marketplace define their genres according to -- well, marketplace categories. Once upon a time, not too long ago, a few categories sufficed: fiction, creative nonfiction (though not so labeled: creative essay, personal essay, memoir), script, and poetry, and subcategories for motif-type genre: western, science fiction, fantasy, horror, thriller, mystery, romance. Later, "literary" was added. And three general age ranges, children, juvenile, and adult, and, of course, long and short compositions, collections, anthologies, series, serials, books, etc.

Post Postmodern era conventions exploded to ever more discrete and numerous niches: focal age range, focal human condition motif, focal fantastic motif, if one, focal sexual identity, life station, and many, many crossovers, focal etc. Today's marketplace is a 'smored gas board of nuanced distinctions. Yet this is a marketplace that craves quality freshness and vividness and liveliness over category distinction.

However, fortunately, specialization to an extreme handicaps many a publisher's selections. What's fantasy and what's science fiction, for example, is no longer clearly defined. Most any house worth its salt doesn't decline close enough for government work.

A broad science fiction or fantasy category distinction is between what's impossible, improbable, or futuristic science and what's impossible magic. Anyway, no absolutes anymore; any house will publish anything, if suited to the house and its subscribers, its audience sensibilities and sentiments.

Arthur Clarke's three prediction adage laws illustrate fantasy and science fiction distinctions:
  • Clarke's first law:
    When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
  • Clarke's second law:
    The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
  • Clarke's third law:
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
The third is most often cited for a distinction of science fiction from fantasy. Yet much of science fiction depends on impossible science that is more magical fantasy than not, Clarke's second law invoked. Faster-than-light travel, for example, is mathematically proven impossible, Clarke's first law invoked. Is magic. Plus, quantum physics and imaginary number theory combined with special relativity implies possible, if improbable, faster-than-light travel is mathematically conceivable, Clarke's first and second laws invoked. Is magic, Clarke's third law.

Cyberpunk broken down to base constituents cybernetic and punk: cybernetic; computer appliances, sufficiently advanced technology to have magical abilities -- punk; not bratty punks at loose means and ends, rather, akin to garage bands performing cover titles with a raw innovation flair and an artful, stylish admixture of "classy" fashionable popularity and thrift store economy. Magical Clarke third law combinations. Patty Smith, for example, is the godmother of punk, not just the musical style, the appearance style, too. She tastefully wore mixed Sixth Avenue Macy's and The Village Goodwill.

Computers and punk -- arguably, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are cyberpunks of the real world. They started in a garage and mixed state-of-the-art cybernetic technology and raw bargain innovation. That their innovations are now mainstream establishment doesn't diminish their cyberpunk-itude.

In any case, again, what a story is really about incorporates a tangible complication and an intangible one, a moral human condition. Cybernetics, for example, depersonalizes people, period. Punk attempts a cultural-technological innovation crossover that, in part, renews human interpersonalization -- an exquisite backdrop custom of cyberpunk. Cyberpunk is fertile territory for crossover of any category -- we live in this cyberpunk age. Any house that narrows its slant definition to exclude works that fall inside existing boundaries doesn't know what cyberpunk is.

[ January 03, 2016, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: extrinsic ]

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Reziac
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Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. -- Gehm's corollary
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Captain of my Sheep
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quote:
Have you heard of Writer of the Future contest. Dave Farland the somewhat new executive editor says he wants stories with originality-plot, setting, characters, at least one of those. It's very hard to win in but you have four chances a year.
Yes! I've heard of Writers of the Future. It was here at Hatrack that I learned about it. I forgot if they accept e-subs or not. If it's only paper then I'm going to pass. I think I'm still too green for WOTF.

I've been reading Farland's Daily Kick in the Pants ever since I read this post...and I'm just realizing you made that post. Haha. Thank you for that link!

quote:
In any case, again, what a story is really about incorporates a tangible complication and an intangible one, a moral human condition.
Sounds so easy when you put it that way. [Razz]
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extrinsic
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain of my Sheep:
quote:
In any case, again, what a story is really about incorporates a tangible complication and an intangible one, a moral human condition.
Sounds so easy when you put it that way. [Razz]
Tangible is the easiest and intangible the hardest part of writing creative stories. I've racked my brains on the subject and am close and hot on the trail. Literary analysis holds a dam break; that is, discernment of moral motifs of any given narrative and which is most central.

Because overly preachy stories are problematic, the analytical process is akin to code deciphering; actually, the process is social code deciphering. Central moral values and social codes of well crafted stories are misdirected intentionally, if often intuitively: concealed, veiled, hidden. This is also practical irony at its finest expression: a form of dissimulation that artfully withholds direct expression and uses strong implication instead.

A current project of mine, for example -- I struggled to locate what the story is really about, what its intangible complication is related to a focused moral human condition. Much sketch and trial drafting resulted in realization the story is about coercion, peer pressure though from all corners: parents, "authorities," "siblings" (chosen kinship group, not actual kin), acquaintances, fair-weather friends, love interests, casual contacts, etc., includes the protagonist's self.

The vice-virtue of substance is sloth-diligence. Coercion is easiest when an individual wants to justify lazy habit -- sloth -- or diligence is easiest when a passion contributes. In any case, coercive pressure for good and evil means and ends is the intangible complication of the work: a force, which is what a conflict revolves and resolves upon. Eventually, the outcome is an individual discovered moral truth "of the self" -- de se.

Coercive pressure is a larger-than-life, current, relevant, timeless motif that warrants narrative development and holds strong appeal potential, not to mention the congruent tangible complication. Congruent it must be, too. Of finding meaningful work in a world of labor surplus, off-world labor, and coercive pressure to perform menial busy-work labor on-world. The other option is on the dole and a meaningless life. Socrates: "An unexamined life is not worth living."

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Disgruntled Peony
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain of my Sheep:
Yes! I've heard of Writers of the Future. It was here at Hatrack that I learned about it. I forgot if they accept e-subs or not. If it's only paper then I'm going to pass. I think I'm still too green for WOTF.

They do in fact take e-subs, for the record.
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Captain of my Sheep
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quote:
Originally posted by Disgruntled Peony:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain of my Sheep:
Yes! I've heard of Writers of the Future. It was here at Hatrack that I learned about it. I forgot if they accept e-subs or not. If it's only paper then I'm going to pass. I think I'm still too green for WOTF.

They do in fact take e-subs, for the record.
Thank you! Good to know [Wink]

Well, I submitted my story to Apex Magazine yesterday.

I proofread, edited, proofread, edited and proofread that story so many times freaking times that I murdered any enthusiasm I had for it. It's like a word you repeat over and over until it starts to lose meaning and sound like a non-word.

I hope this doesn't happen with to the stories I submit because that would make me really sad.

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Disgruntled Peony
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain of my Sheep:
Well, I submitted my story to Apex Magazine yesterday.

I proofread, edited, proofread, edited and proofread that story so many times freaking times that I murdered any enthusiasm I had for it. It's like a word you repeat over and over until it starts to lose meaning and sound like a non-word.

I hope this doesn't happen with to the stories I submit because that would make me really sad.

Good luck! [Smile]

I understand that feeling; I'm sure most, if not all, of us have been there at some point. Hopefully, after some time apart from the story you'll be able to enjoy it again (or at least view it with fresh eyes).

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extrinsic
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Another phase happens after passion is lost from revision repetition; so long as commitment remains, full realization eventually transpires, at which point passion soars beyond previously attained peaks.
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Captain of my Sheep
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Thanks Peony and extrinsic [Smile] Time seems to be the best medicine for a lot of things, except leftovers in the fridge.

Ew.

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