posted
Fantasy Novel, 85k words. Looking for readers, comments on first page.
Colonel Toriff Dealing surveyed the platoon of men before him with dismay. As each of soldiers stood at attention, they tried their best to maintain the look of a proper military force. And they were trying, trying their poor rookie hearts out, which would make Toriff feel that much worse when they failed. It was as though the sergeants at the training camps had simply given up on these men, just decided to cut their losses and send the fools out with their pikes and shields and a few supplies, praying that field experience would make them into something usable. *Hope they can at least hold a decent phalanx formation.*
If nothing else, at least battle experience would sort out the chaff. Survival of the fittest was, after all, the basis of war.
[This message has been edited by EP Kaplan (edited July 03, 2007).]
You're going to hate me for this but when I read the name of your MC I went eek! Sorry.
You have tried once and trying twice in the first paragraph, would sugggest to change that.
I'm assuming the last sentance of the first paragraph is thought. If so, I'd suggest putting it on a seperate paragraph.
I'm assuming you're heading into battle. I'd have liked a bit more information on that if so and maybe a little less on the soldiers themselves. It seems you're trying a little too hard to make us know they are inexperienced. Maybe a couple of good sentances would do the job. I'll have a look at that first page if you'd like to send it my way.
He's not the MC, no more than Hooch was the MC of Red Prophet Okay, though. Maybe something more... I dunno, pleasant to welcome the reader in. Good eye on 'try.' I'll correct that. Not battle, but troop inspections, reckon that I ought to clarify it sooner?
posted
AAAAGH I just realized I'm in the SS section. ugh. Will repost in novels. Stupid me, using computers past my proverbial bedtime...lol
Posts: 180 | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
This start sets the technology at pikes and shields. The modern ranks of colonel and sergeant make me wonder about the time setting - post apocalyptic?
"tried ... trying, trying their poor rookie hearts out" is sympathetic with strong emphasis of the triple try. It makes me go "Aww ..." The hard-bitten colonels who send rookies to be winnowed in battle don't go "Aww" IMHO. That makes Toriff special. "... which would make Toriff feel that much worse when they failed" makes me think that this will explore the psychological impact of responsibility for all that chaff. The problem is that whose who let that sensibility get to them don't last long enough to become colonels. Consistency in this character would make an interesting story, but looks like it will be difficult. That's my motivation for offering to read your first page.
The next paragraph dismisses the sympathy and gets back to casualties as the basis of war.
First of all, let me just say that I would read on. However, there are some things which could be improved, most of which have been mentioned before.
Like Darklight I went eeek when I saw the MC's name. Sorry! I know its the first thing most of us feel bound to when we're writing, but for me it was a stumbling point.
Sentences two and three say much the same thing. I would try and compress and combine the info contained in this.
While I'm not bound to things being the same as in the real world, the terms used do seem a bit of a historical mishmash. Rookie, colonel and platoon all seem a bit modern for pikes and shields.
Hope this helps. And remember, I would read on! :0)
posted
The thing I feel uncomfortable with about using historical rank titles is that they tend to be little more than unpronounceable names or else archaic terms from which our own are derived. Would the story really be better if Dealing's rank had been syntagma, or if I had called the sergeants 'hoplamachos'? There's a fine line between historical accuracy and what might seem like 'shmeerping'.
If anyone has any ideas for clarifying this, I'm open to suggestions.
posted
The modern titles communicate to the reader without adding explanations that historical or totally fabricated names would need. We can easily tell that the colonel outranks the troops by enough that he isn't their immediate superior. The inspection setting did come through because of that. Such a convenience has costs. The use of modern titles begs the question of time setting to me. That's something I would look for in the next page after these first 13. It's a higher cost if a reader objects to the anachronism.
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posted
Here is a word for word critique. Over all, it reads too much like other first 13s I've read.
Colonel Toriff Dealing (eek) surveyed the platoon of men (is this important information) before him (where else would they be if he was surveyiing them) with dismay. As each of (the?) soldiers (why not just, The soldiers) stood at attention, they tried their best to maintain the look of a proper military force. (The next sentence says this better.) And they were trying, trying their poor rookie hearts out, which would make Toriff feel that much worse when they failed. (Why the future subjunctive case?) It was as though the sergeants at the training camps had simply given up on these men, just decided to cut their losses and send the fools out with their pikes and shields (the modern "sergeants" clashes with "pikes and shields", but this could be intentional.) and a few supplies, praying that field experience would make them into something usable. *Hope they can at least hold a decent phalanx formation.* (The idiosyncratic use of asterixes does not work.)
If nothing else, at least battle experience would sort out the chaff (chaff is not sorted but rather is beaten from the wheat). Survival of the fittest was, after all, (what does "after all" add to this sentence?) the basis of war.
If you were to follow my suggestion, this is what you would get:
Colonel John Smith surveyed the platoon with dismay. The soldiers stood at attention, trying, trying their poor rookie hearts out. They failed, and John Smith hated it when they failed. The drill sergeants had given up on these men, cut their losses and sent the fools out with their pikes and shields, hoping combat would turn them into something usable.
"I hope they can at least hold a decent phalanx," Colonel Smith thought.
Battle experience would beat out the chaff. Survival of the fittest was the basis of war.
posted
As a general suggestion: first finish the story. Then, on the second draft, take out every word or phrase that does not contribute to the story. Finally, proofread the story at least twice, on at least two different days. (You would have caught the missing "the".) Then send it off to an editor.
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quote: Colonel [Toriff<--Sounds Middle-Eastern] [Dealing<--Sounds British.] surveyed [his] platoon [of men before him<--Not necessary] with dismay. As each of soldiers stood at attention, they tried their best to maintain the look of a proper military force. [And they were trying, trying their poor rookie hearts out, which would make Toriff feel that much worse when they failed.<--This makes the recruits look like Jerry's Kids, not a military unti.] It was as though the sergeants [at the training camps<--Where are they, that they would have to worry about trying and failing?] had simply given up on these men, just decided to cut their losses and send the fools out with their [pikes and shields and a few supplies<--Whoa. This is historical? The voice doesn't seem it?], praying that field experience would make them into something usable.[<--That is a long-@$$ sentence.] Hope they can at least hold a decent phalanx formation.
If nothing else, at least battle experience would sort out the chaff. Survival of the fittest was, after all, the basis of war.
Okay, I need to know that this is historical/fantasy from the prose. Its opening reads like modern or even futuristic soldiers.
Major Plausibility Issues:
1) Is this the Greek Army, the Roman Army, the Phoenetians? There are major differences. If Greek or Roman, the men had only so many names to use, and very few used two names. If Greek, specifically Spartans, then compassion will never do. They were a brutal people that were trained as warriors from the time a child turned ten. If they would have failed in any aspect of their training, they would be dead -- and not even mourned.
2) Either of these armies had totally different ranking systems. To my knowledge, the only rank they had im common was Captain.
I am a big fan of heroic fantasy/historical fantasy, but you need to make some details clear. Terms like "rookie", "surveyed the platoon", and "maintain the look of a proper miltary force" sound too recent for the PoV to be right.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited July 03, 2007).]
posted
I agree with IB on the fact that the words you choose and your general prose sounds modern. So when you throw in the pikes and the phalanx formation there is a bit of a jolt. Most fantast/sci-fi readers I know (including myself) have an extremely high tolerance for specialized/esoteric terms. So yeah, if you know that you are referencing a particular culture, ie- the Greeks, then use the language.
I actually really like what you've set up so far.
So my feedback is more addressed to what you want to convey. Because, for example, I like that you're trying to show that Toriff has compassion on his soldiers. But then you get a plausibility issue. Most army leaders aren't known/promoted for their compassion. If he does feel it, it would be very heavily guarded within himself, right? Would he allow himself such sentimentalism as thinking about the "rookies" failing while they are before him?
Wouldn't he more likely wince at their sorry state? Wouldn't he more likely be angry that his sergeants have slacked off and let such weaklings through? etc.
Also, is field experience a common way to train troops?
None of these questions should make you change what you have, per se. Rather, sharpen what you do have, and what you want to communicate. If you're going to set up an unlikely military leader, then it's going to take that much more coaxing to make him real.
posted
I kind of find it funny how some people said that sergeant is a modern word and didn't gripe about the other, more modern words used. From dictionary.com:
colonel - Origin: 1540-50; so named because such an officer orig. headed the first column or company of a regiment
platoon - Origin: 1630-40
rookie - Origin: 1890-95 (recruit is at least origin 1635-45, so you might consider using that instead.)
military - Origin: 1575-85.
sergeant - Origin: 1150-1200. A tenant by military service, below the rank of knight.
I will grant that most of these terms sound too modern for use with pikes, shields, and phalanx formations. I'd suggest that you at least get rid of "rookie" and "platoon."
As InarticulateBabbler points out, most societies that historically used pikes, shields, and phalanx formations wouldn't have a higher rank thinking "ah, poor kids" (unless he personally knew them) but rather "what the #$%^ am I going to do to get these kids into shape so that I don't die with them?!" or maybe "how are we supposed to win with soldiers like these?"
Also, as InarticulateBabbler pointed out, most people in 'that' time period wouldn't have last names. If they had second/last names, those names would be the place they grew up in (e.g. Joan of Arc) or their father's job (e.g. John Smithson). Even dropping the character's last name would help set the time period better.
[This message has been edited by DebbieKW (edited July 03, 2007).]
posted
Viele danken, KDW. The setting is a country culturally more like Germany (one of the languages spoken there is simply represented as modern German) than any other, and the current VP character is NOT my MC, rather he serves to introduce the actual protagonist, an archer who is discovered as a witch in the process of the inspection. I'm glad the supporting cast seems interesting enough. Technologically, black powder does not exist (slowing down warfare technology against other branches) but magic fills some of its roles, at least where it's legal/feasible.
As for esotery, wait until you read about the MC's canonicals and composite reflex bow.
That said, thanks for the tips, everyone. I've been editting for the past two hours.
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