posted
Lucas sat on the bench, on the slightly raised performers dais in the tavern, holding an ale in one hand and having his cane in the other, resting on his legs. The crowd of men were paying attention to him, some not as much as others but remained intent on listening to another tale. Lucas often came to the same tavern to tell stories, myths and legends and more. Every time he spoke, the men in the tavern would crowd around him, quieten down and listen, wondering if their favourite story would be spoken, or if a new one would be told. Lucas saw the faces of the men, all dirty and some missing teeth, the state of the men shocked him worse each time he came here. He now felt obliged to tell them the story of the time when everything changed. He was older now, his hair white and his heard not as prominent. ------------------------------------
This is what I would like critiqued, there's not much more than this at the moment as I've hit a heavy bit of writers block at the moment, but I'm forcing myself to write.
I'd like it critiqued normally, as well as have anyone who has posted in the showing, not telling thread to help out as well.
posted
Well now, I was hoping to critique in a semi-abnormal way, but damn it to hell, I'll just have to do it the normal way.
On the whole, there's not a whole lot happening here, so you'll miss a few people looking for action-based hooks, but I happen to love an author who writes a lot about troubadors and travelling musicials, so the fact that one exists will usually buy you a couple more pages out of me. The overall writing is a little awkward, though. Details below...
quote:Lucas sat on the bench, on the slightly(0.5) raised performers dais in the tavern, holding an ale in one hand and having his cane in the other(1), resting on his legs. The crowd of men were paying attention to him(2), some not as much as others but remained intent on listening to another tale.(3) Lucas often came to the same tavern to tell stories, myths and legends and more.(4) Every time he spoke, the men in the tavern would crowd around him, quieten(5) down and listen, wondering if their favourite story would be spoken, or if a new one would be told. Lucas saw the faces of the men, all dirty and some missing teeth, the state of the men shocked him worse each time he came here.(6) He now felt obliged to tell them the story of the time when everything changed.(7) He was older now, his hair white and his heard not as prominent.(8)
EDIT - 0.5. Kill the adverb! Does it matter if the dais is slightly raised, or incrementally raised, or subtly raised? No. The dais is raised. Leave it at that.
1. I flat out do not understand this sentence. Typo? If not, then you'll need to explain to me how a person haves a cane in their lap. Is this maybe a brutal misuse of tense?
2. This is a good example of somewhere you could have shown rather than told us that the crowd was paying attention to him. Something along the lines of "Lucas could see most of the heads in the room turned towards him, their eyes bright with anticipation." It could be that someone is holding a delicious flame-broiled Whopper over his head and Lucas doesn't know it, but I'm more likely to assume that these people are both paying attention and are excited to hear what he is going to speak/sing.
3. The wording of this sentence is quite awkward. Is it important that some are paying attention to another troubador as well? Either reword it or delete it.
4. This is kind of awkward too, as well as gramatically incorrect. It should read stories, legends, myths, and more.. Again though, do we need to hear this here? Later in the piece you mention favorite stories, and later still a story of how everything changed. *shrugs* You might be able to do away with some of these.
5. Just quiet.
6. Grammar again. This should be a separate sentence, or at least be separated form the sentence prior with a semicolon.
7. Why does he feel obliged all of the sudden? And, I think there might have been a switch in tense in there somewhere - it felt subtle, but I thought I felt it nonetheless.
8. I assume heard was meant to be beard. What purpose does this sentence serve. I get that you're trying to introduce the physical description of your character, but it doesn't fit in with anything else around it. What does feeling obliged to tell a story to some downtrodden looking men have to do with how old Lucas looks. Plus, why would his beard be less prominent when he was older? Seems counterintuitive to me.
I'm sure others will have more technical help to offer you on specific like POV, minutae in grammar, maybe some more show vs. tell. I think you'll need to keep writing and reading to work on some foundational skills, things like sentence structure, how to assemble a paragraph into a logical flow, etc. If you're not far into this piece and truly, truly stumped, it might be a good idea to set this aside and pick up a shorter piece (novel length can be pretty intimidating to work on). Honing your skills on shorter pieces should keep you in good stead for the marathon that a novel can be.
I hope I've been helpful.
Jayson Merryfield
[This message has been edited by Wolfe_boy (edited August 28, 2007).]
posted
Again I see Wolfe_boy sank his teeth in before I could get to the front of the line. Am I going to have to wake up earlier?
Since he mentioned a lot of what I noticed in terms of grammar and style, I'm going to talk about the scene itself.
One thing I'd like to see changed is where you have the description of Lucas. I don't know if it's just me, but the combination of the name and his status as a minstrel painted him as a young person (with a limp, explaining the cane) rather than an old person. Starting off with 'Old Lucas bla bla bla...' saves you from having to use up some of your precious first 13 with describing his age in terms of whiteness of hair and his beard.
We also have a very generic tavern here. Is this a prologue building up to the meat of the story, which is in the past-tense, Lucas' youth? Even so, I want the details in the tavern fleshed out a lot more. Name it, for starters. You can't afford to wait until the actual story 'begins' to draw us in; the preamble has to excite curiosity and foreshadow the flavor and tone of story to come.
I think you have to make us care about this old man from the moment we see him to make us bother giving a hoot about what antics he - or the people around him - were up to back in the day. Also, Lucas is getting ready for story time. The reader needs to be pulled in as much as his audience is, so play up the details (not with more adjectives) but with sensory impressions. There's no smell, the sights are unclear in some cases, and you offer little auditory impression.
If the men who come to the tavern look more ragged every time Lucas goes, I'm curious about what kind of tavern this is, in what kind of neighborhood.
Also, time period. This is a fantasy, yes, but fantasy can be derived from all locations and time periods. Taverns have been around in different incarnations for a very long time, so I can't picture here if I should be seeing men in furs with crude torches set in sconces, or fellows in doublets with lamps scattered around the tables. Are they drinking mead, wine, or some imported liqueur? Give us a tangible sense of place, even if that place doesn't exist.
Summary: Atmosphere, atmosphere! You have a skeleton for a scene here, but it needs some flesh and drapings to amp it up.
quote: Lucas sat on the bench, on the [deleted] performers dais in [the tavern<--Tavern's Name here], holding an ale [in one hand<--Not necessary. Where else would he be holding it? If it WAS somewhere else, THAT would be worth mentioning.] and [having his cane in the other resting,<--I might clean this up and simplify it:his cane rested] on his legs. If the cane was of special relevance, I might go into more detail. This whole sentence is long and passive.The crowd of men [Why just Men?] were paying attention to him, [some not as much as others but remained <--confuses.] intent on listening to another tale. Lucas often came to the same tavern to tell stories, myths and legends and more. Every time he spoke, the men in the tavern would crowd around him, quiet[Deleted] down and listen, wondering if their favourite story would be spoken[, or if a new one would be told<--Not necessary. If their favorite is not told, it will obviously be a new or "other" one.]. Lucas saw the faces of the men, all dirty and some missing teeth, the state of the men shocked[Don't you think he should be accustomed to them by now?] him worse each time he came here. He now felt obliged[Why? What made him obliged?] to tell them the story of the time when everything changed [For whom?. He was older now[Than what? Was he young when he was IN the story?], his hair white and his [heard<--even if this was "beard", it would confuse me as to how a beard could get LESS prominent.] not as prominent.
I mentioned staying true to the PoV to control the so-called Show VS Tell in the thread of that name. Below is an example, though not perfect, of this.
Lucas leaned against the stage, in the Black Bull Tavern, sipping an ale. The old cane that rested on his legs, polished by use and sweat, was the only prop he used to tell his stories. As usual, many showed up in anticipation of the yarn he would spin. He surveyed the crowd over the mug's rim. All of the faces were filthy and had gaps in their smiles, but he knew this crowd was made of good people, and they would gladly spill some their hard-earned coin for an evening's entertainment. He had already decided what tale to tell, and was waiting for the anticipation to build to a crescendo. A good Wordsmith knew how to use nuance to manipulate a crowd.
In a novel, you don't have to introduce the main conflict in the first few lines, but you have to give the reader an idea of what the story is about in the first few pages. In my example I have given you a character to follow and hinted at him being a scam-artist. *Disclaimer* That wasn't what I got out of your story, but an example of using PoV to immerse the reader versus summarize.
PS - I think you need to finish the story, or at least know where it's going, before you worry about solidifying the scene too much. The story is important first, then how it's written. As you get better, these will combine.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited August 28, 2007).]
posted
My feeling is, if you start nit-picking the grammar and presentation now you'll have a tough time getting the first draft done, 'cause you'll be constantly second guessing yourself. I think there's a great temptation to post thirteen lines of a novel before it's written to see what people think, and while this can be helpful, it's premature if the story isn't done yet, and I think can have a paralyzing effect. So my advice: brainstorm the story, figure out where it's going, outline it if necessary, and then get to writing, and don't worry about the first 13 until the whole darn thing is written.
If you want to work on the craft of writing, in the meantime, I think short stories are the way to go. You can finish one in a day or two, post the thirteen, get comments, and then take another day or two to revise, post again, etc. This will give you a good sense of how to tell a story, and an opportunity to work on the finer points of grammar, experimenting with show vs. tell, work on POV issues, all in a matter of a few days, rather than the eons it may take to write a novel.
There are some problems with the first sentence that others have already pointed out, but for the moment, leave that alone. That's your basic situation: Lucas on the dais. Now: Write a sentence about how Lucas feels. Write a sentence about what he thinks -- not about the past but about what is going on right this minute. Then write a sentence about something that happens to change how Lucas feels. Go:
Lucas sat on the bench, on the slightly raised performers dais in the tavern, holding an ale in one hand and having his cane in the other, resting on his legs.
posted
Yep. Seems like there might be a good story in there... but as it reads now I wouldn't keep reading. He's been telling stories to these men for decades now, and he only now will share the life-changing story that he's been witholding? Perhaps it is because he appears to feel nothing towards them other than mild disgust at their degraded state.
Assuming Lucas is the viewpoint character, why describe things about him he doesn't observe himself? Help us know his motives. Why he has he been telling stories to these men for years?
[edited to remove use of "you" and the piece of broccoli stuck between my teeth]
[This message has been edited by meg.stout (edited August 31, 2007).]
posted
There was a lot more wrong with it than expected... Though that's the sort of thing that a person needs to make themselves better and I'll work on it and try and finish the first draft before I repost, though it will probably be some time before it's done.
Thanks to everyone who helped out I'll take all the help you've given to me and try and impliment.
posted
I don't like the name Lucas, it reminds me of George Lucas and that's irrelevant. It appears that there is far too much telling, rather than showing going on in what you've written so far. It is better to have the reader experience the scene, rather than reading about it.
I like what the story is about, It seems to be about the simple things and I find that refreshing.
I didn't understand the bit about the cane, Perhaps you could use more imagery to draw out that bit.
I don't know if this is relevant, but I noticed you're expressing alot ABOUT talking, But you don't actually have any dialogue here.
To show rather than tell, I can only suggest thinking of actions that represent what you're trying to say, Then the motivations behind those actions, And the character/s involved. The more research you do, the easier this piece will become to write.
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