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Author Topic: The Fathom
AllenMackley
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These are the first 13 lines to the Fathom:

The flames of his torch flickered in the darkness as Yono hobbled up the ladder of a massive sling and looked down its great iron shoot. The citadel of Spire stood like a painting; a symbol of power and culture, the bright moon reflecting off of its northern lake. He moved the torch closer to its destination, an iron ball filled with oil and flammable material. However, when the moment came to light the kindling, he hesitated. His mind told his arm to move, to light the flame, but his body did not obey his thoughts.
“You will be the one to start this war, Stunt!” Sayoto yelled from below.
Yono breathed inward, then decided to act. He lifted the torch towards the catapult’s head and set it to flames.



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DragonChick
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Well, the first couple of lines I found confusing and hard to follow. I really couldn't picture where I was at all. I also think in these few lines, it should either be Yono or Stunt - introduce the nickname later. And I'm not sure I like Stunt as a nickname.

That being said, you had me by the end of this. I like how he already takes this big action and I'm disappointed that I don't know what happens next. I would definitely keep reading.

So I think the biggest thing (for me) is clearing up the setting at the beginning. I can't picture a sling with a ladder - or an iron shoot for that matter. Maybe this is my lack of exposure to this kind of contraption, but I have no idea what this is. Also, when you say "citadel of Spire stood like a painting" etc, that all suggests a POV outside the character. He's not seeing it from a distance; I shouldn't be either. Likewise, show me the lake later. It doesn't seem crucial to this scene and it only distracts. Though it may have worked better if I could really picture where I was.

Anyway, I think this beginning is promising. The biggest hurdle of the first 13 is to capture reader interest and you did that. I would have turned the page.


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AllenMackley
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Thank you DragonChick.

I think you're right about the nickname "Stunt," as it gives the character two names right at the beginning which is too confusing. The challenge is to get the reader to understand that Yono is a very short person without saying it too bluntly.

What I'm trying to accomplish with the sling is to create a siege weapon which is unique compared to the traditional catapults and trebuchets. Perhaps I could describe it as a ballistic instead, or a crude cannon, which is what I have in mind. Hmm, I'll have to put some thought into that, as I don't want to focus too much on it, but I also don't want it to become confusing either. The idea is that he's looking down a large iron tube, like the barrel of a massive canon, viewing Spire through the end of the barrel.

You're right about the lake, I describe it later, so I don't really need it here.

Also, perhaps I should hint towards the setting a little sooner. This is taking place among a grassy, slightly hilly countryside a few miles away from the coast.

Thanks for the suggestions, they got my mind chugging!


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isaac.madsen
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"The flames of his torch" threw me off. Perhaps it ought to be, "The flames of Yono's torch ... as he hobbled ..."

Also, does the lake belong to the citadel or to Spire? The sentence isn't very clear.

"... flammable material" leaves me wanting more. What sort of flammable material? You don't have to name everything. You've already mentioned oil.

A sling or a cannon? I was picturing a giant sling-shot of sorts myself, which isn't necessarily a bad idea, but a cannon makes more sense. A giant sling-shot would be really cool though.

DragonChick covered about everything else I can think of.

The last four or five sentences really pulled me in, which is exactly what we want. Get the others to do the same and you're good to go!

Oh. One more nitpicky detail. Rather than "set it to flames," you might consider saying "set it aflame", "set it afire", "set it on fire."

Best of luck. Write on!


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nitewriter
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Not much to add to what has been said. I also had a little problem picturing the sling. You might consider using a trebuchet in this scene - a kind of catapult capable of hurling large weights for a considerable distance - this would clear up any confusion about the weapon.
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AllenMackley
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Thank you everyone for the feedback. Here is my revised version:

The flames of Yono’s torch flickered in the darkness as he hobbled to the front of a massive trebuchet. He turned to glance at the citadel of Spire, which glimmered in the moonlight among gentle, rolling hills. Yono moved the torch closer to its destination, a perforated iron ball filled with oil and dry, wooden embers. However, when the moment came to light the kindling, he hesitated. His mind told his arm to move, to light the flame, but his body did not obey his thoughts.
“You will be the one to start this war!” Sayoto yelled from behind.
Yono breathed, then decided to act. He lifted the torch towards the catapult’s head and set it aflame.


I decided to make it a trebuchet. A cannon is too advanced for the type of historical setting I'm attempting to create. Anyway, I think trebuchets are awesome; my family has a small trebuchet on our farm which we fling pumpkins with. I also think most people understand the idea behind a trebuchet - this means I wont have to go into detail explaining how the siege weapons works.

[This message has been edited by AllenMackley (edited January 28, 2008).]

[This message has been edited by AllenMackley (edited January 28, 2008).]


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LCastle
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There's still some uncertainty that Yono is standing outside the city and that his folk are the beseiging ones.

"in front of a massive trebuchet" implies that there are more. And if so, wouldn't they all be poised to go at once?

"oil and dry wooden embers" seems contradictory to me. If they're in oil, then they're not dry; if embers, then the oil would already be alight and he wouldn't be standing there with a torch.

And yeah, trebuchets are cool.


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smncameron
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The flames of his torch flickered in the darkness as Yono hobbled up the ladder of a massive sling and looked down its great iron shoot. Too many things are happening here at once. He's not simultaneously climbing and looking is he? Break it up! The citadel of Spire stood like a painting; On a wall? a symbol of power and culture, the bright moon reflecting off of its northern lake. Where is the citadel in relationship to Yono? He moved the torch closer to its destination, an iron ball filled with oil and flammable material. Moved the torch closer to its destination seems unduely formal However, when the moment came to light the kindling, he hesitated. His mind told his arm to move, to light the flame, but his body did not obey his thoughts. You can make this less pasive by using "refused to move" instead
“You will be the one to start this war, Stunt!” Sayoto yelled from below. An interesting sentence because it asks several questions? Is Sayoto taunting Yono? Reminding him of the importance of his act? The context is missing.
Yono breathed inward, Inward sounds incredibly awkward. You breathe in or out, not inward. then decided to act. He lifted the torch towards the catapult’s head and set it to flames. [/b] The action itself doesn't need to be given as much focus, just have him drop the torch and use the free space to better describe its effects. Saying decided to act is utterly pointless. If he acts, the audience will know he has made up his mind [/b]


A good opening in that it leaves me interested in reading more. Not so good in that the actual prose is in need of improvement.


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InarticulateBabbler
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My take:

quote:

[The flames of<--[Ditch this. His torch flickered in the darkness as Yono[Which does he think of himself as? Yono or Stunt? That's what you should call him here]hobbled up the ladder of [a massive sling<--Eh? Do you mean a trebuchet?] and looked down its great iron [shoot<--[Eh? Did you mean "shoot" or "chute"? And I can't picture either.. The citadel of Spire stood [like a painting;<--Hard metaphor to make. Paintings don't stand. Maybe you should just quash it and go directly to:] a symbol of power and culture, the bright moon reflecting off of its northern lake. He [moved<--Suggest: poised] the torch [closer<--Suggest: over] [to its destination,<--Quash; you don't need this. an iron ball filled with oil [and flammable material<--[Oil is flammable, so unless it is a SPECIFIC material, this is redundant]. [However,<--Don't need. W]hen the moment came to light [the kindling<--What kindling? I though it was an iron ball--at most, I pictured a packed fuse.], he hesitated. His mind told his arm [to move,<--Ditch this.] to light the flame, but his body did not obey his [thoughts<--Don't need this.].
“You will be the one to start this war, Stunt!” Sayoto yelled from below.
Yono breathed inward, then decided to act. He lifted the torch towards the [catapult’s<[What Catapult? I thought is was a sling--which is more like a trebuchet.] head and set it to flames.

It's an interesting beginning, if it's cleaned up. For me, your hook is: Why is Yono/Stunt starting a war?

I hope this has been of some help...


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nitewriter
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Just another thought here. "...citadel of Spire, which glimmered in the moonlight..." The image I get from this is that the citadel is a building made of something like granite or other hard rock. Launching balls containing flammables won't do as a stone building is hard to burn down. Let us know, if you use these balls, why the building is vulnerable to this kind of attack. You could use solid iron balls or large rocks which would nicely aerate the citadel. I think the most interesting use would be to fling in cadavers, those who died from highly infectious diseases - as was sometimes done.
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DragonChick
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Your revised version is getting there. It still isn't clear where the MC is in relation to the Spire. You can just say something like, "the citadel in the distance" etc. The trebuchet (yes, WAY cool, I'd love to fling pumpkins with that!) could be "aimed toward" the walls, etc. You just need some more description to get us oriented. Also, since Spire makes me think more of an actual spire than the name of a place, it's a bit confusing. It's just bringing in one more image while I'm trying to figure out where we are. I don't know if you need to change the name of the citadel, or just hold off telling us the name until later when we already have a visual established. Could you just say citadel and leave it at that, for this scene?
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AllenMackley
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Wow, thank you for the feedback. Its surprising to me how many flaws I've overlooked which a fresh pair of eyes can pick up out.

Here is my second revision attempt:

Yono’s torch flickered in the darkness as he hobbled to the front of a massive trebuchet. He turned to glance at the citadel, viewing it from a distance, its towers glimmering in the moonlight. He poised the torch over a perforated iron ball filled with oil and packed kindling. When the moment came to light it, he hesitated. His mind told his arm to light the flame, but his body did not obey.
“You will be the one to start this war!” Sayoto yelled from behind.
Yono breathed, and then decided to act. He placed the torch upon the ball, igniting the oil. He hobbled to the side of the trebuchet and grabbed hold of the steel lever with his stubby arms. Pulling the lever downward, he sent the flaming ball soaring through the night sky.

Nitewriter,
Nice call, as the city is granite! I’m glad that you were able to pick up on that from the discription. You may be correct in that the iron balls wouldn’t cause that much damage to the stonework itself. The idea here though is that Sayoto (the warlord leading this army) wants to burnout and overwhelm the city, thereby taking control of it without destroying it too severely.

I saw a YouTube video of a rich English guy who launched a flaming piano from a 20 story tall trebuchet. When it landed it literally exploded. (YouTube is great for writer’s inspiration… haha

Here is the link:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-358810172121466346&q=rich+english+guy+trebuchet&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

The idea I have here is that when the iron balls strike the ground and walls, they explode, scattering hot embers onto Spire's army (however, I don’t have room to go into detail on this in the first 13 lines). Also, there are people’s homes surrounding the citadel which catch on fire, creating chaos and confusion.

[This message has been edited by AllenMackley (edited January 28, 2008).]


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InarticulateBabbler
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quote:

Yono’s torch flickered in the darkness as he hobbled to the front of a massive trebuchet. He turned to glance at the [distant] citadel, [viewing it from a distance<--[Ditch this], its towers glimmering in the moonlight. He poised the torch over a perforated iron ball filled with oil and packed kindling. When the moment came to light it, he hesitated. His mind told his arm to light the flame, but his body did not obey.

“You will be the one to start this war!” Sayoto yelled from behind.

Yono breathed, and then [decided<--[I thought he'd already decided. Maybe "forced his body to", "forced himself to" or just "put the torch to the oil and kindling".] to act. He placed the torch upon the ball, igniting the oil. He hobbled [Why is he hobbling?] to the side of the trebuchet and grabbed hold of the steel lever with his stubby arms[, and pulled it down]. [Pulling the lever downward, he sent<--[Ditch this T]he flaming ball soar[ed] through the night [sky<--cliche and unnecessary.].


Don't rush this. Considering what you're trying to say. Take your time; don't try an impress us.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited January 28, 2008).]


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DragonChick
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I agree with Babbler's suggestions, except I liked how your MC "decided." I liked it the first time too. I think the way you handle his hesitation and decision builds suspense. I didn't have a problem with hobbling, cuz I remembered you explaining this character's physical stature in another post, but I think without even knowing that I would be willing to wait for more information to be forthcoming. I didn't like "stubby" however, because it seems like something derogatory that someone else would say about him, whereas I think he would have a softer word to use for himself. Plus the word has kind of a modern tone. Other than that, I liked Babbler's edits.

This beginning has good potential. Good luck on the rest!


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AllenMackley
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InarticulateBabbler, you are very effective editor. I will let this sit for a couple of days before posting another revision.

Out of curiosity, have you written a book or do you have one in the works? I would like to know because I might learn a few things from your writing style.

[This message has been edited by AllenMackley (edited January 28, 2008).]


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AllenMackley
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DragonChick,

I've been struggling to describe Yono as a little person without it sounding insulting. I noticed you didn't like the nickname Stunt and the word "stubby." I've been careful not to use the word "midget," as that can be offensive. I also do not want to use the word "dwarf," because that makes me think of Lord of the Rings and I'm trying very hard to set myself apart from that. Also, there are no dwarfs or small people in my book as a race - Yono is unique.

I feel like in order to draw an image of Yono in the reader's mind correctly, they need to understand that he's a little person right from the beginning of the book. Does anybody have any ideas on how I might apply this so that people "get it," (that Yono is a little person) the first time they read the words?

For example, IB asked: Why is Yono hobbling?
I think the word I actually need to use is "waddling".

[This message has been edited by AllenMackley (edited January 28, 2008).]


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isaac.madsen
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Waddling just gives me the impression that the character is fat. I think hobbling is a better word, but the reason why just needs established better. A simple way to show small size is to have him always looking up to people or fitting easily through spaces that others don't work so well in. Maybe he's the one to start the war because the trebuchet is designed in a way that makes it difficult for a regular-sized person to light? I'm not sure why that would be, but I'm just throwing ideas in the air. He sounds like the sort of character that others would select for tasks like crawling through small spaces (sewer drains, etc). This one particular quality can be used in many different ways so I suggest that you utilize it where you can (but don't overdo it either).
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AllenMackley
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Thanks Isaac.

I think I'm actually set on waddling though.

Waddling means:
1. to walk with short steps, swaying or rocking from side to side, as a duck.
2. to move in any similar, slow, rocking manner; wobble

Whereas hobbling means:
1. to walk lamely; limp.
2. to proceed irregularly and haltingly: His verses hobble with their faulty meters.

So hobbling is more of a limp and waddling more like a sway.

[This message has been edited by AllenMackley (edited January 29, 2008).]


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InarticulateBabbler
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AllenMackley:

1) I am co-writing a novel, and I have a novelette/short story entered in this quarter's Writers of the Future.

2) For getting some knowledge of the character's stature: You might--when he is stretching across to light the projectile--mention him wishing to have longer arms and legs, or wishing he had the size of a normal man (though I'm loathe to say it that way). It is difficult, since I don't know him very well, to convey how he might feel (as to having been treated throughout his life) derisive about his god-cursed body or some-such. Or, maybe Sayoto could lengthen his nickname: Stunted One, Little Man; or just Dwarf. George Martin does that effectively with Tyrion in his A Clash of Kings. It depends on theme, and how he (and others) feel[s] about his size. Then waddling, hitching, or lurching would all be effective modifiers to his walk, without giving false impressions. You could also have him think about how he--for a change--looks down upon everyone else.



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AllenMackley
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IB,
I would be interested in reading it or possible critiquing it if you are interested in letting me do so.

Oh, Yono will get plenty of opportunities to look down on everyone else. Later on in the story I play on the idea that he feels cursed, as he becomes heavily abused and deformed by prejudiced people. He has an opportunity to break away from this feeling of being lesser once he drinks a potion that Sayoto concocts for him. Whenever he drinks the potion it transforms him into a beast for a limited time. Yono is actually not the main character, though he is one of the main characters.

Concerning his nickname, I'd actually used Stunted One for a time. Perhaps I'll go back to that since you suggested it.

[This message has been edited by AllenMackley (edited January 29, 2008).]


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InarticulateBabbler
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1) Don't take my word as golden. In fact, don't take anybody's word as golden. Always question whether that approach is right for you and your story. But, be wise enough to defer to those who can help you. (Whether you like them or not: Sometimes a golden nugget can be encased in a pile of condescending bullcrap.)

2) I'm learning to write better (the same as you and most other Hatrackers), but am by no means a professional in the field. While I appreciate that you share my tastes, it is because of many others--from here, Liberty Hall, and other places--that I've come as far as I have. Nothing good comes without dilligence, perserverance, and adversity to overcome.

I have had a plethora of work demolished--and justly so. For instance, my recent WOTF entry: Chris Owens took it out at the legs, and a few others kicked it and beat it when it was down. (Chris, if you're reading this, it's just an analogy .) By the time the dust settled, there was only a few recognizable pieces protruding from the unspeakable carnage that once had been my mind-child. For a while, I could not bear to look at it. I wanted to dig it a hole. So, I worked on a couple of other short stories for a time. Then, something clicked. I had a totally unrelated idea that churned in my head. That idea walked reverently over to the deformed remains and poked at them. They responded. My child was not dead, yet. Then the new idea bent over and breathed life into those remains. And before my eyes, a new story rose out of the ruins of the old. The next critiques saw how it could expand into a much larger story, but I had to cage it, if it was going to go to the WOTF in time. I wove an intricate spell to keep the beast from growing, and (with the help of others) gave it a manicure, pedicure, and trimmed enough of its hair to see its eyes--yet left enough to still allow allow it a fierce visage--and then sent it off. At some point, if you don't stop, you never will.

So, how well my entry does is based on three factors: clearly describing my imagination; acknowledging the problems others had with my prose (and noticing what I did right); and the ability to rebuild it applying what I learned.

As for the nickname: If you use it in Sayoto's dialogue, have Yono acknowledge that it's him (either by gesture or comment) so the the reader is not lost.

About my collaborative effort: It's still a long way from being ready to be read. Although--with my co-author being another Hatracker--we will probably post the first thirteen when it's finished. (As is, there is an ongoing discussion about where we are going to begin. Our story is complex in its simplicity. )

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited January 29, 2008).]


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Devnal
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Just wanted to comment on one of your posts. Don't get caught up in what others might find offensive; I would worry more about getting your idea's across clearly (whether you have to use the word midget or not) than what someone might think when they read it.

PS - Waddle makes me think fat as well

[This message has been edited by Devnal (edited January 30, 2008).]

[This message has been edited by Devnal (edited January 30, 2008).]


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AllenMackley
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Here is another revision of my first 13:

_________________________________________________________________
Yono’s torch flickered in the darkness as he waddled to the front of a massive trebuchet. He turned to glance at the distant citadel, its towers glimmering in the moonlight. He poised the torch over a perforated iron ball filled with oil and packed kindling. When the moment came to light it, he hesitated. His mind told his arm to light the flame, but his body did not obey.
“You will be the one to start this war!” Sayoto yelled from behind.
Yono breathed, and then forced himself to act. He placed the torch upon the ball, igniting the oil. He walked to the side of the trebuchet, reached up, grabbed hold of the steel lever with his stunted arms and pulled it down.
________________________________________________________________

I think you're right Devnal, as no matter how much I try not to offend people, there's always someone who is going to take offense. So its a loosing game to play; however, I think a word like "midget" is a no-no, but "stubby," I'm going to use. Its a balancing act, like most things in life.

Yono is a little chubby, so I think I can get away with using waddle.

IB,
Don't worry, if you said something I didn't think had merit, I'd have ignored it. So far everything you've commented on I've agreed with.

I look forward to reading the first 13 lines of your recent project. By the way - good luck at the contest! The more times we've failed, the greater chance we have to win!

[This message has been edited by AllenMackley (edited January 30, 2008).]


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