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Author Topic: Battle of Kayen
Snow Crash
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First 13 for something I'm working on. Posted it a few months ago but no feedback, so here's a re-post. The subject is not the actual title. Please crtitique.

Moseph the inn keeper stood beside the bar of the Sundial Tavern, mopping the sweat from his balding forehead. The tavern had never seen so many people in all its fifty years, and the crowd was growing. Villagers from all over Kayen were gathering with anticipation to hear what news Captain Publius had brought from the northern border. As far as the villagers were concerned, the King's army were still holding ground over their neighbouring enemy, the Ayoush. If Publius were to bring news of potential defeat, however, they would be forced to flee south immediately before the armies reached the small villages of Kayen. If rumors were to be believed, the barbarous Ayoush would leave nothing in their wake.
Moseph worried for his son Vorenus, stationed on the King's


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JeffBarton
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Description of the inn and mention of villagers imply a fantasy piece to me, but there's no speculative or magical element mentioned. There's time to introduce them later in a novel, but not too much later.

Generally, this start sets up anticipation of a battle and that is the source of some tension. I think that 'If rumors were to be believed' weakens the tension. It implies that the enemy might not be all that nasty. Do these people have any history or evidence of what the Ayoush did to others?

The tension is general, distributed over all the peasants, until the last line makes it specific to Moseph. A novel usually has some time - a few pages - to develop that more fully.

I gather some things by context. These are not good or bad, unless they're not what is meant. Kayen has to be a fairly small place for the villagers to gather from ALL over it. They are unlikely to abandon their farms for a trek of several days, especially those in the south. It would be quicker for them to flee from there if the trip to the tavern was out of the way.


I guess Publius has the duty to report and is not deserting in the face of the enemy. This brings the question how he could do that. If the border situation is that bad, the army would need every man. A few words that distinguish duty from desertion could probably be fit in around the first mention of Publius.

The opening has a few mechanical problems:

In the first sentence, inn keeper could be one word. Is Moseph beside the bar or in the more usual position behind the bar?

A forehead is usually bald even on a Geico caveman. Perhaps he mopped his brow, without adjectives leaving description like 'balding' to later.

Do all those people fit in the bar? Standing room only? Is Moseph hot from work, from the weather or from the press of the crowd? Overflow to the grounds outside?

'Publius had brought' says that he is already there. 'If Publius were to bring' says that he is not there yet. I think the tense contradiction needs to be resolved.

In 'immediately before the armies reached' immediately is redundant to the urgency that follows it. The adverb should be the first to go to clear the redundancy.

'As far as villagers were concerned' implies that is as much as they care about. 'As far as villagers knew' would convey enough more caring that they are anxious for word.

Topic switches from the tavern to villagers to the enemy in the north, all in one paragraph. A break or two would be in order. It's good that Moseph's concern is in a new paragraph.


Is this the sort of critique you are looking for?

[This message has been edited by JeffBarton (edited July 07, 2009).]


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Meredith
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Is Moseph the balding innkeeper the hero of your story? If not, I don't think I'd start with him. As a reader, it doesn't make the story sound very exciting to me.

What's the initiating event that starts your story moving? If it's the enemy coming on Publius' heels and the townsfolk fleeing for their lives, then this may be the right place to start, but not necessarily the right POV to start in. Maybe Publius instead? Someone who promises more action.

All other things being equal, I prefer to start out in the protagonist's POV. Of course, there are plenty of books that start out with someone else's POV first and then move to the protagonist. Harry Potter comes to mind.

So far, everyone in the crowd seems to feel the same. They hope for news that the war is going well and fear that the enemy will sweep across their peaceful little corner of the world and force them to flee. There could be five or five hundred, since they're all the same. Is there someone in the crowd that feels differently? Someone who hates this little backwater town and would welcome a chance to get out? Someone who sees this as a chance for adventure? Someone stuck in an abusive situation who would welcome the chaos as a means of escaping? Contrasting that person's thoughts against those of the rest of the townsfolk would add some tension and interest to your opening.

Of course, something like that better have some relevance to the rest of the story. But that would probably hook me into the story more than this does.


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annepin
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I like the political drama. However, I feel it’s too much too soon. At this point, I’m looking for an interesting character to follow. Also, the information is revealed in an almost perfunctory, expository way. It feels too forced, and I’m not sure whose thoughts these are--Moseph’s, or just the narrator laying down information. Moseph is the first character we meet, so I want to ascribe these thoughts to him, but then they feel forced. I’d rather the info come out in bits and pieces naturally through Moseph’s life and thoughts. The most compelling thing to me so far is his concern for his son. Rather than having him look at the village and reflect on these political changes, if that is what he’s doing, I suggest you focus on what’s most foremost in his mind--his son--and take us from there. Maybe give him something to do, to, other than just looking out at the people. Dialogue is always good--he can interact with someone. Engage us with the character, rather than the information.
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Marita Ann
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In general, I like it I would read on. However, I think I would be reading on not because of interesting things happening in the first 13, but because of the expectation of interesting things happening because of the situation. I agree with the previous critiques: let Moseph do something more interesting and give us the background information in the context of the action.
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keithjgrant
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It looks like Moseph is your POV character here. You haven't lost me in this first 13, but I need to start connecting with him soon; that last line about his concern for his son starts to do that. An innkeeper is a rather formulaic character in a fantasy novel, so break the formula immediately. Make something about his character a little different than I would expect from the cliche.
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Snow Crash
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Thank you all for your feedback. You people certainly don't want much in the first 13 lines do you?!
I agree with most of the feedback offered.

JeffBarton

quote:
Description of the inn and mention of villagers imply a fantasy piece to me, but there's no speculative or magical element mentioned. There's time to introduce them later in a novel, but not too much later.[\QUOTE]

It is a fantasy setting, though there are no magical elements in it, other than superstition.

[QUOTE]Is this the sort of critique you are looking for?


Yes, indeed it is, and many thanks.

Meredith

quote:
Is there someone in the crowd that feels differently? Someone who hates this little backwater town and would welcome a chance to get out?

I see what you're getting at. Difficult to do though, in the first 13. I would have to switch pov's, or make the point known through dialogue, which again is difficult in the first 13 lines.

annepin

quote:
Also, the information is revealed in an almost perfunctory, expository way.

I completely agree. A few others have made this point I noticed. I introduced a character, and then let forth a paragraph of background. It feels out of place.

quote:
Engage us with the character, rather than the information.

Agreed.

keithjgrant

quote:
Make something about his character a little different than I would expect from the cliche.

I agree, he does seem rather generic, though it's hard to do much more with only 13 lines.


Many thanks to you all for your feedback, including those I haven't quoted. I've tried to take most of what's been said on board. Please find the following re-write. It's not perfect, but is it more along the lines of what you guys had in mind? Critique would again be appreciated.

Moseph the innkeeper stood beside the bar of the Sundial Tavern, mopping at the sweat from his balding forehead. Never in all his fifty years had he seen so many people gathered in the relatively small tavern, and the crowd seemed to be growing. The heat from all the bodies had become stifling.
Moseph watched as Tanya, the bar maid, sauntered over to him and leaned her elbows on the bar. She rested her chin on the palm of her hand and sighed heavily. Moseph noted her sour expression and offered a smile.
“Taps dried up,” she said matter-of-factly. “The rioting will start soon.” Moseph shook his head.
“Doubtful. The people are too worried about what news Publius will bring of the battle.” His face grew solemn for a moment,

[This message has been edited by Snow Crash (edited July 08, 2009).]

[This message has been edited by Snow Crash (edited July 08, 2009).]

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited July 09, 2009).]


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keithjgrant
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I think those are some good changes. I feel Moseph's emotions more strongly in this one. Good nonverbal cues.

>> Moseph shook his head.
Just a nit, but I'd bump this into the next paragraph to tie it more with his dialogue.

>> His face grew solemn for a moment, and though he tried to
>> hide it with a weak smile, Tanya had noticed it.
I'm picking on small stuff here, but I have two thoughts on this sentence: First, the opening clause _may_ be a POV slip, but it's debatable. Second, I read it just fine the first few times, but I wonder if the past perfect "had noticed" could be construed as happening before the solemn face, which is just in past tense... though I don't know my grammar well enough to say for sure. Again, I might just be making a fuss over nothing, but, hey, you didn't give a lot of errors for me to work with here

One idea. You have the opportunity to show a second, lesser emotion in Moseph with the crowd and the beer selling out: he could feel happy about the sales or proud that his tavarn is the central meeting place. Of course, this would still be overshadowed by the concern for his son, and he might even feel guilty for these emotions. I wouldn't give it more than a passing comment (keep it subtle), but it would add some conflicting emotions that make him an even deeper character. Just a thought.

[This message has been edited by keithjgrant (edited July 08, 2009).]


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Marita Ann
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I like this one a lot better. Definitely more engaging.

One thing I miss from the first version is a sense of fear. I don't know if other people feel this way also, but in your first version, the possibility of coming danger gave me a clear sense that the villagers coming to the inn aren't just worried or curious, they're scared. I lost that sense in the second version. I don't think the second version is bad without the fear, but I think it would be better with it. I would at least work it in soon after this.

[This message has been edited by Marita Ann (edited July 08, 2009).]


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Teraen
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I liked your second version better, its more show instead of tell. But I somehow don't feel he is really that worried about his son. He should be as nervous as everyone else, right? I mean, when publius gets back, he could be bearing news that his son has been slaughtered. I would like to know more about the battle.

I know you only have 13 lines here, but how the people react already tells me about the battle. Is this side winning the war? Is he upset because his son is in the front rather than somewhere else? OR is this the final defense before the invading army comes in and destroys all of them? Are these citizens fearful for their lives, or simply nervous that the war has come closer than they would like?

The environment of the war and the stakes involved will affect how the people react. My point is that since I don't feel fear, I can't really pin my fingers on why they are reacting the way they are. If they really feared such a horrible army, why are they gathered in a tavern rather than fleeing for their lives? I get the sense that the war is somehow an inconvenience in their lives rather than a threat. As if the war in Afganistan spilled over the ocean and we had a few terror attacks in America. Scary? sure. But none of us would stop going to movies, sporting events, etc...


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Collin
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other than changing "The King's army were" to "The King's army was" and "barbarous" to "barbarious", I have no advice. This piece is great.
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Snow Crash
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Keithjgrant:
quote:
but I wonder if the past perfect "had noticed" could be construed as happening before the solemn face, which is just in past tense

Yeah I have no idea on that one. I thought the same thing, as well as the potential POV slip. The whole sentence is slightly awkward I think.

quote:
You have the opportunity to show a second, lesser emotion in Moseph with the crowd and the beer selling out: he could feel happy about the sales or proud that his tavarn is the central meeting place.

Okay, one thing I’ll have to do is make it clearer that Moseph is the inn keeper and doesn’t actually run the tavern, as there seems to be some confusion there.

Marita Ann:

quote:
One thing I miss from the first version is a sense of fear

Teraen:

quote:
My point is that since I don't feel fear, I can't really pin my fingers on why they are reacting the way they are

You both make similar points, which I agree with. A quick line of Moseph observing the tension and fear of the people around him I think would cover this better.

Colin:

quote:
other than changing "The King's army were" to "The King's army was" and "barbarous" to "barbarious", I have no advice. This piece is great.

I think you read the first post and not the re-write, though many thanks for the appreciation.

Thank you all for your feedback. I have learnt a lot from this piece. Show instead of tell, and the sooner you have a character’s emotions coming through, than the quicker the reader can relate and engage in the story. Many thanks. I look forward to continuing the story with its new and improved opening paragraph.


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