Here's the last version from the previous topic.

quote:

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Version Ten:

Unfairly blamed by his tribe's shaman for the death of that religious leader’s son, Vatar is forced to leave the plains and go to the city. Although Vatar finds some things in the city confusing, his curiosity draws him to knowledge unavailable on the plains. However, Vatar comes to the attention of the god-like rulers of the city, who suspect that he may have abilities similar to their own. And their interest is not entirely benign.

Vatar finds himself caught between the two cultures, unable to live happily in either one. Each time Vatar tries to return to his tribe, his presence provokes the shaman to a new attempt at revenge. And with each escape, the shaman’s obsession becomes more intense and the stakes get higher. And, although he has a powerful ally, he knows that he is watched whenever he is in the city.

When Vatar has a family of his own to protect the feud with the shaman becomes too dangerous for Vatar to tolerate. He challenges the shaman directly, accepting a dangerous ordeal to prove himself against the shaman’s accusations. The ordeal has unexpected consequences, sending Vatar on a journey far from either of the worlds he knows. But what he learns will allow him to overcome his distrust of his own magical powers so he can finally defeat the shaman and earn the right to live in peace for himself and his family.

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This is a different take on it. Still a little rough, I think. But is it a better way to go with this?

New Version:

When the accidental death of his son sends the unstable shaman of the Dardani over the edge, he vows to take vengeance on Vatar. But when every attempt only serves to benefit Vatar, the shaman becomes more obsessed and more desperate.

In the face of the first threat, Vatar’s family convinces him to flee to the city for a while. But in the city, Vatar acquires knowledge and skills impossible to learn on the plains. When the shaman turns his attention to Vatar’s younger brother, Vatar uses his new expertise to create the strategy and the weapons that allow his brother to prevail. In the process, the brothers become heroes of the tribe.

Next, the shaman attempts to use Vatar’s unusual knowledge against him by accusing him of being possessed by an Evil Spirit. Vatar turns the accusations back on the shaman. The only way for the Dardani to judge between them is for both to undergo an Ordeal. Although he endures hardships and dangers, Vatar’s Ordeal leads him to the woman he has dreamed about.

When the shaman tries to include Vatar’s young children in the vendetta, Vatar is forced to come to terms with and learn to use the magic abilities he inherited from his father in order to protect his children. Learning to control his own magic gives Vatar the final tool he needs to defeat the shaman once and for all.

Second Try This is a little smoother, but I worry that it may be getting too long. Anyone have a feel for a good length?

When the accidental death of his son sends the unstable shaman of the Dardani over the edge, he vows to take vengeance on Vatar. In the face of this threat, Vatar flees to the city, where his mother was born, for a while. There, Vatar acquires knowledge and skills impossible to learn on the plains. But the god-like rulers of the city restrict all magic to themselves and Vatar’s occasional flashes of wild, untrained magic could put him in danger there.

With Vatar out of reach, the shaman turns his attention to Vatar’s younger brother. Vatar uses his new expertise to develop the strategy and the weapons that allow his brother to prevail. To his surprise, Vatar becomes a hero of the tribe in the process. However the superstitious Dardani, including Vatar himself, would not welcome the idea that some of his inborn magic had been at play as well, if any of them could recognize it.

Vatar struggles to build a normal life for himself. He has been changed by his time in the city and finds that he can no longer be completely happy among the Dardani. Splitting his time between the plains and the city seems like the only solution, but that makes it difficult to carry on an ordinary relationship. And there are dangers and enemies in both places he tries to call home.

His thirst for revenge still unsatisfied, the shaman attempts to use Vatar’s unique knowledge against him by accusing him of being possessed by an Evil Spirit. Vatar turns the accusations back on the shaman. The only way for the Dardani to judge between them is for both to undergo an Ordeal. Vatar’s Ordeal leads him across uncharted forest and mountains to a new land, a people who don’t fear magic, and the woman he has only dreamed about, who can stand beside him in both halves of his life.

When every attempt at revenge only serves to benefit Vatar, the shaman becomes more obsessed and more desperate. When the shaman tries to include Vatar’s young children in the vendetta, Vatar is forced to come to terms with and learn to use his own magic abilities in order to protect his family. Learning to control his own magic gives Vatar the final tool he needs to defeat the shaman once and for all.

Thanks for the links, BenM. I'll study those a little later, when I'm more awake.

Third Try: But probably still too long.

Vatar keeps the flashes of warning he sometimes feels secret from his tribe. The superstitious Dardani reject and fear anything that smacks of magic. But when his best friend, the son of the tribe’s shaman, refuses to heed his warning, the boy is killed in a flash flood.

The death of his son sends the unstable shaman of the Dardani over the edge. He blames Vatar for the adventure that led to his son’s death and vows to take revenge. Unprepared to deal with this threat, Vatar flees to the city. There, Vatar acquires knowledge and skills unknown on the plains. He joins the smiths’ guild and finds peace and fulfillment in that work. But the god-like rulers of the city restrict all magic to themselves and Vatar’s occasional surges of wild, untrained magic could put him in danger there.

Returning home to the plains, Vatar struggles to build a normal life for himself. He has been changed by his time in the city. He has only simple, unsatisfying repair work to do and he misses the chance to learn that the city offered. But his people need his skills, since they only know how to work bronze, not iron or steel. Splitting his time between the plains and the city seems like the only solution, even though that makes him something of an outsider in both.

His thirst for revenge still unsatisfied, the shaman attempts to use Vatar’s ties to the city against him by accusing him of being possessed by an Evil Spirit. Vatar turns the accusations back on the shaman. The only way for the Dardani to judge between them is for both to undergo an Ordeal. Vatar’s Ordeal leads him across uncharted forest and mountains to a new land, a people who don’t fear magic, and the woman he has only dreamed about, who will stand beside him in both halves of his life.

When the shaman tries to include Vatar’s young children in the vendetta, Vatar is forced overcome his own fear and learn to use his own magic abilities in order to protect his family. Learning to control his innate magic gives Vatar the final tool he needs to defeat the shaman once and for all.

Fourth Try: It didn't actually turn out any shorter--yet. But what I got from BenM's links was to use more of what the MC is going through. So I'm trying that.

Vatar keeps the flashes of foreboding he sometimes feels secret from his tribe, afraid that the superstitious Dardani will label it magic. The Dardani distrust and fear all magic except that of their shaman. But when his best friend, the shaman’s son, refuses to heed his warning, the boy dies. The death of his son sends the unstable shaman over the edge. He blames Vatar for the escapade that killed his son and vows to take revenge.

Unprepared to face this threat, Vatar flees to the city. Virtually alone for the first time in his life, Vatar is forced to adapt to a new way of life and face some uncomfortable truths about himself and the source of the magic he tries to reject. But the rewards are great. Vatar gains knowledge and skills unknown on the plains. However, the god-like rulers of the city restrict all magic to themselves and Vatar’s occasional flashes of wild, untrained magic could put him in danger.

Returning home to the plains, Vatar struggles to build a normal life for himself. He has been changed by his time in the city. He now belongs to both places--and neither. Splitting his time between the plains and the city seems like the only solution, but that makes carrying on an ordinary relationship almost impossible.

When the shaman attempts to use Vatar’s ties to the city to turn the Dardani against him, Vatar turns the accusations back on the shaman. The only way for the Dardani to judge between them is for both to undergo an Ordeal. Vatar’s Ordeal leads him across uncharted forest and distant mountains to a new land, a people who don’t fear magic, and the woman he has only dreamed about. A woman who will stand beside him in both halves of his life--and who shows him that magic can have a beneficial and very pleasant side.

When the shaman becomes desperate enough to include Vatar’s young children in the vendetta, Vatar is forced to accept and learn to use his own magic abilities in order to protect his family. Learning to control his own magic gives Vatar the final tool he needs to defeat the shaman once and for all.

Fifth Try: This time I've included the whole letter. After studying the queries in BenM's links, what I came away with was that the query needed to be much more about the concept and less about the story, as well as including some of the MC's struggle. So here's the latest attempt. (It does all fit on a page, now. Just.)

I chose to submit this to you because <insert reason here>.

Vatar keeps the flashes of foreboding he sometimes feels secret from his tribe, afraid that they will label it magic. But when his best friend, the son of the tribe’s shaman, refuses to heed his warning, the boy dies. The death of his son sends the unstable shaman over the edge. He blames Vatar for the death of his son and vows to take revenge.

Unprepared to face this threat, Vatar flees to the city. Virtually alone for the first time in his life, Vatar is forced to adapt to a new way of life and face some surprising and uncomfortable truths about himself and the source of the magic he tries to reject. He also must contend with the god-like rulers of the city, who restrict all magic to themselves. Vatar’s occasional flashes of wild, untrained magic could put him in more danger, here.

Soon, Vatar finds himself trapped between the plains and the city, belonging to both, and neither, as he struggles to build a normal life for himself. Splitting his time between the plains and the city seems like the only solution, but that makes carrying on an ordinary relationship all but impossible.

Eventually, the shaman’s vendetta against him will drive Vatar to a new land, a people who don’t fear magic, and the woman he has only dreamed about. In the process, Vatar is forced to overcome his distrust of magic and learn to use his own magical talents, which gives him the final tool he needs to defeat the shaman once and for all.

The Shaman's Curse is a fantasy novel of 117,000 words. The full manuscript is available upon your request. I have enclosed <insert agent’s specific request here> as requested.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.

Here's some of my thoughts:

When the accidental death of his son sends the unstable shaman of the Dardani over the edge (good! I like the cause and effect, your previous versions made it seem like he blamed Vatar, but had no room to give details. This works better. Still don't know if the word accidental is required, though. Unnecessary detail at this point.), he vows to take vengeance on Vatar. But when every attempt only serves to benefit Vatar, the shaman becomes more obsessed and more desperate (I don't think this last sentence adds necessary information, you could cut right to the next paragraph here).

In the face of the first threat, Vatar’s family convinces him to flee to the city for a while (Having not read your story, I don't know if these details are important. What I see as important is "vatar flees for his life." Who convinces him is not necessary here. Maybe something like "Fleeing for his life, Vatar runs to the city"?) . But in the city, Vatar acquires knowledge and skills impossible to learn on the plains. When the shaman turns his attention to Vatar’s younger brother, Vatar uses his new expertise to create the strategy and the weapons that allow his brother to prevail. In the process, the brothers become heroes of the tribe. (I would replace these two sentences with the one from your previous ones, I remember it as something like "Vatar isn't at home in the tribe or the city." The I don't know why I should worry about the details of what he does in the city. I kind of get the feeling that he falls in love and gives up on his old life, only to have it creep back up on him. This idea of old threats disturbing a new peace would work well here. Here, I would actually cut right to the part in the final paragraph about how he has to learn magic in order to protect his family. Between this and the previous pitches, i get the sense that Vatar doesn't belong in the city, until he falls in love? That he ends up finding his own niche?)

Next, the shaman attempts to use Vatar’s unusual knowledge against him by accusing him of being possessed by an Evil Spirit. Vatar turns the accusations back on the shaman. The only way for the Dardani to judge between them is for both to undergo an Ordeal. Although he endures hardships and dangers, Vatar’s Ordeal leads him to the woman he has dreamed about (this whole paragraph is more suited for a synopsis. If falling in love is pivotal to your story, I'd include in when you describe what is important about Vatar being in the city).

When the shaman tries to include Vatar’s young children in the vendetta, Vatar is forced to come to terms with and learn to use the magic abilities he inherited from his father in order to protect his children. Learning to control his own magic gives Vatar the final tool he needs to defeat the shaman once and for all. (Good! You set up the finale without giving away anything.)

The thing I find really interesting is only briefly touched upon in both pitches. The magic that Vatar is born with that he is scared of. I am not sure if this is a major point in your novel, but if it is I would expand more on it. I would like to know: is it rare? Did it factor in the death of the Shaman's son? What happened to make him afraid of it, and what does he have to overcome to accept it as part of himself and use it to defeat the Shaman? Also, I am guessing that his magic ability is what makes him interesting to the God-like rulers of the city. Since I haven't read your novel, I can't say for sure if this is what you should focus on, but it was the most interesting part to me.

When the accidental death of his son sends the unstable shaman of the Dardani over the edge, he vows to take vengeance on Vatar. I Have to agree that starting with the shaman puts me in the wrong frame of reference, even though you switch to Vatar in the next sentence In the face of this threat, Vatar flees to the city, where his mother was born, for a while These last 3 words don't add anything--instead, I find they bog down the pace of the synopsis. There, Vatar acquires knowledge and skills impossible to learn "impossible"? or "forbidden"? The latter word, if it's true, might add more tension on the plains. But the god-like rulers of the city restrict all magic to themselves and Vatar’s occasional flashes of wild, untrained magic could put him in danger there.Good addition--introduces magjc early and creates more tension. The biggest problem with this intro I think is that I have no sense of how old Vatar is.

With Vatar out of reach, the shaman turns his attention to Vatar’s younger brother How about something like, "Vatar rushes home when he gets words of his mother's illness--only to find the shaman now threatens his brother.. Vatar uses his new expertise are you trying to say his magic here? If so, I suggest you just come out with it to develop the strategy This words is pretty vague and the weapons that allow his brother to prevail. To his surprise, Vatar becomes a hero of the tribe in the process. However the superstitious Dardani, including Vatar himself, would not welcome the idea that some of his inborn magic had been at play as well, if any of them could recognize it Right now this sentence doesn't do a whole lot of work for you. I would cut out "if any of them could recognize it"..

Vatar struggles to build a normal life for himself. He has been changed by his time in the city and finds that he can no longer be completely happy among the Dardani Maybe something more specific here--Having been exposed to the traders in the city, he finds the Dardani too superstitious and wary of strangers. Splitting his time between the plains and the city seems like the only solution, but that makes it difficult to carry on an ordinary relationship. And there are dangers and enemies in both places he tries to call home. I actually think you can cut this whole paragraph.

His thirst for revenge still unsatisfied, the shaman attempts to use Vatar’s unique knowledge I still think you could get more specific here and really pack a punch. As it stands "unique knowledge" doesn't mean a whole lot to me. You mentioned blacksmithing in your earlier synopsis. I'm assuming the Dardanai confuse blacksmithing with magic?against him by accusing him of being possessed by an Evil Spirit. Vatar turns the accusations back on the shaman. The only way for the Dardani to judge between them is for both to undergo an Ordeal. Vatar’s Ordeal leads him across uncharted forest and mountains to a new land, a people who don’t fear magic, and the woman he has only dreamed about, who can stand beside him in both halves of his life.

They're all good and valid suggestions. My problem is that as I add this conflict and that development and this reference to magic to the query, the next thing I know I've got a one-page synopsis instead of a query. That's not a bad thing to have, and I'm going to work a little more on the current version for that puporse. But it's not what I'm trying to do here. Most queries are going to include a one- or two-page synopsis that can give more detail about the story. I just want them to be interested enough to read it. If a query doesn't include a synopsis (based on the specific agent's requests), then this or its next generation would be great and I wouldn't worry about the length.

I liked the first (new) version, even though it was rough, because it was short and focused on the premise. I never liked starting off with the shaman, either. But I couldn't find any way to phrase that with Vatar as the subject without having it sound like something that belonged in a legal document. "Wherefore the party of the first part . . ."

I like the addition of magic in the first paragraph in the second version and the description of Vatar's difficulty in getting settled into an ordinary life. I think that is part of his character arc and therefore important.

I like the start of the third version because it puts the magic right up front and sort of frames the premise with part of the character arc, along with adding a bit about how he feels about his magic at the end. And it also starts off with Vatar, not the shaman.

Otherwise, I think the third got too wordy and delves into more detail than needed, here. A lot of that belongs in the synopsis rather than the query, I think.

As for the description it sounds good. You clearly show us what the story is about and how we can relate to the MC.

I don't know if you've done this, but you might mention its genre, word count, and whether it's part of a series. Ideally after the introduction to the story itself. Then you can give a brief summary of your own writing credentials and maybe mention why you chose that agent/publisher in particular to submit to.

So, trust your instincts. Go with what feels right to you, ultimately. It's your story, your query, your synopsis. Ultimately, you have to be excited about it, or else you probably won't be able to excite an agent.

Something I do when I feel I've written something to death is to try writing it completely differently. Start with a new lede (which you sort of did), start with a new hook, approach the project completely differently. Write it out that way. Maybe write out several completely different approaches. Let it sit a few days then go back and reread all of them, including your originals. Sometimes the differences will inspire something new. Sometimes, you'll just realize that your original version wasn't nearly as bad as you thought it was.

Version Ten:
Unfairly blamed by his tribe's shaman for the death of that religious leader’s son, Vatar is forced to leave the plains and go to the city. Although Vatar finds some things in the city confusing, his curiosity draws him to knowledge unavailable on the plains. However, Vatar comes to the attention of the god-like rulers of the city, who suspect that he may have abilities similar to their own. And their interest is not entirely benign.

I like the first paragraph, nice set up

Vatar finds himself caught between the two cultures, unable to live happily in either one. Each time Vatar tries to return to his tribe, his presence provokes the shaman to a new attempt at revenge. And with each escape, the shaman’s obsession becomes more intense and the stakes get higher. And, although he has a powerful ally, he knows that he is watched whenever he is in the city. this last sentence is vague, either cut it or explain who the powerful ally is and if he/she is involveed with the god-like rulers.

When Vatar has a family of his own to protect the feud with the shaman becomes too dangerous for Vatar to tolerate. the family comes out of no where. When does he get married and is she from the village or the city? You need to either explain this or cut this, I think you should cut the family out. How about saying When the shaman threatens everyone Vatar loves, he is forced to challenge the shaman directly He challenges the shaman directly, accepting a dangerous ordeal to prove himself against the shaman’s accusations. The ordeal has unexpected consequences, sending Vatar on a journey far from either of the worlds he knows. I think you can cut everything in italics. This is plot info that can be included in a summary. You can just say "but to defeat the shaman he must overcome his distrust of his own magic..." But what he learns will allow him to overcome his distrust of his own magical powers so he can finally defeat the shaman and earn the right to live in peace for himself and his family.

I think your story sounds interesting after reading all of your query attempts, so you must be doing something right.

Good luck with this.

Some line-by-line thoughts? :
[flashes of foreboding] - alliteration on purpose?

[Virtually alone] - is the ambiguity of "Virtually" necessary? The reader can find out it's "virtually" after they request a more complete synopsis - it could be more assertive in this query just to say Alone?

Still trim if possible. For example, that sentence might become:
"Alone for the first time and forced to adapt to new customs, Vatar faces surprising and uncomfortable truths about himself and the magic he'd learned to reject."

[wild, untrained magic could put him in more danger, here] - more assertive and dangerous: "wild, untrained magic will put him". Also, I believe the comma before 'here' should be dropped.

[Soon, Vatar finds himself trapped between] - Doesn't seem to have enough immediacy. "Now trapped between"? { implies [neither, as he struggles] -> "neither, he struggles" }

[Splitting his time] - Consider dropping this sentence entirely? It seems to raise a question (what relationship?) and detract from the overall tension.

[him will drive Vatar] - "him drives Vatar"?

[the woman he has only dreamed about] - possibly too vague, as it reads to me like "the girl of my dreams", ie not specifically "that" woman. "a woman he recognises from his dreams"?

[In the process, Vatar is forced] -> "Vatar is forced" (In the process being redundant/self-explanatory)?

[talents, which gives him] -> "talents, giving him".

Not an authoritative critique but even if not useful as-is perhaps the above helps see it differently. Altogether though I think this version is hugely improved over the earliest ones.

quote:

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[Consider beginning with setting, such as - In a world where magic is outlawed...]Vatar keeps the flashes of foreboding [too vague - how about "visions of future events"] he sometimes feels [omit] secret from his tribe, afraid that they will label it magic [omit]. But [omit] When his best friend, the son of the tribe’s shaman, refuses to heed his warning, the boy dies. The death of his son sends the unstable shaman over the edge. He blames Vatar for the death of his son and vows to take revenge.

Unprepared to face this threat, Vatar flees to the city. Virtually alone for the first time in his life, [omit] Vatar is forced to adapt to a new way of life and face some surprising and uncomfortable truths about himself and the source of the magic he tries to reject. [Is there more to his "magic" than the vision - if there is, allude to this here.] He also must contend with the god-like rulers of the city, who restrict all magic to themselves. Vatar’s occasional flashes of wild, untrained magic could put him in more danger, here. [Omit this if you allude to his growing magic in sentence prior to that.]

Soon, Vatar finds himself trapped between the plains and the city, belonging to both, and neither, as he struggles to build a normal life for himself. Splitting his time between the plains and the city seems like the only solution, but that makes carrying on an ordinary relationship all but impossible. [This seems a little irrelevant, and could probably be inferred.]

Eventually,[omit] the shaman’s vendetta against him Vatar will drive Vatar him to a new land, a people who don’t do not fear magic, and the a woman he has only dreamed about. In the process, Vatar is forced to overcome his distrust of magic and learn to use his own magical talents, which gives him the final tool he needs to defeat the shaman once and for all.

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Cosider my suggestions as an opinion and nothing more, but I hope they help.