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Author Topic: saddest said bookism ever
annepin
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quote:
"Shhhh," he shushed.

--Stephanie Meyer, Twilight

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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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One reason I prefer action tags. How else could you do it?
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annepin
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Was that a rhetorical question?

I would use an action tag, myself. I don't think "he said" would work here. In this case, something like:

"Shhh." He rested a finger on my lips.

Alternatively, just slip the "Shhh" in the dialogue:

"Shhh! I wouldn't consider such a thing," he said.


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InarticulateBabbler
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LMAO.
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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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Not really rhetorical. An inexperienced writer might have a hard time figuring out what to do there, so I was curious what other ideas people might come up with.

Just trying to encourage learning from other's mistakes.


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Robert Nowall
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More proof, if we needed any more, that sales figures do not reflect writing skill...
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JamieFord
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Sales figures definitely reflect story appeal more than writing skill. Either way, I think Stephenie Meyer's done an amazing job. So as a writer, she's as flawed as the rest of us--I'm okay with that.

That being stated, that line is hilarious.


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Darth Petra
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And another reason I'm not going to read it. Thank you.
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Zero
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I'm not sure a tag is even needed. But yeah, I woul either use an action tag or else restructure the paragraph so it's obvious the only possible speaker is the person speaking. Like two people talking without anyone else around is an easy situation to drop tags like yesterday's fashions.

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Zero
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quote:
Sales figures definitely reflect story appeal more than writing skill.

This is my brightest, greatest hope.

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satate
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Amen Zero

LOL (sorry, I have to laugh at myself)


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Robert Nowall
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If [insert publisher's name] published this [name of lousy book], why won't they publish mine?
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annepin
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Well, I think there's always something, mystifying as it might be. In this case, I think the story is intriguing to a particular age group. I'm not so sure what the appeal for adults is. Perhaps the love story combined with the vampire genre, which so many can't seem to get enough of? There is a certain mystical quality to the book which was nice.
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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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The better the story is, the more writing sins the readers will put up with, and a really great story will cover a multitude of sins.
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satate
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I liked them. I haven't sat and analyzed why I liked them, maybe I should. I'd be happy to get half her sales, or any. I'm also amazed at the number of people I know who love them. Usually I read books that no one else reads, sci fi/fantasy. The people I knew who also read sci fi/fantasy I could count on one hand. Now almost every person I know, who reads at all, has read them and loved them. So what does she do to get so many people to love her books? Ya, so she has a lot of writing sins. I'd take them all and be happy to get a percentage of her sucess. I want to know what she does right, and learn from her mistakes.
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Unwritten
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Nearly everyone I know who has read her books has loved them too, and has wanted to discuss them with me ad infinitum. The discussion usually comes down to this: Loads of people have nearly stopped reading because there is such a dearth of books about passionate love for people who don't want to wade through a lot of sex. Whether by accident or design, Stephenie Meyer found a gaping hole in the market. I think that's why the fourth book is so much less popular than the first three.
Melanie

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Zero
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quote:
If [insert publisher's name] published this [name of lousy book], why won't they publish mine?

I think it's because yours probably don't provide adequete sex-appeal to naive 14 year old girls. What's more compelling than being seduced by an ice-cold monster who would love to kill you and eat you? Not to mention one who stalks you, breaks into your house without your knowledge, and watches you sleep.

Yes. Very compelling. Couldn't put it down.

[This message has been edited by Zero (edited October 29, 2008).]


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satate
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I wish more movie producers, book publishers, tv shows, ect. would see that gaping hole. If the story is clean they make it hokey, but it doesn't have to be. Maybe they think if it's clean only 8 year olds will want to watch it.
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JamieFord
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I'd rather read a great story, with all its warts and flaws, than a literary performance piece with dazzling prose and no real story at all. I think a lot of storytellers can improve their craft. I'm not sure the reverse is true...
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annepin
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I didn't intend to make this thread into a Stephanie Meyer bashing one. I think the books have worth, and I'm interested to know why they worked for some people. Heck, for a lot of people.

quote:
I think it's because yours probably don't provide adequete sex-appeal to naive 14 year old girls.

Again, I think that's selling Meyers short. It can't be the naive 14 year old girls alone who are keeping this book on the best seller lists. There's simply not enough of them, and I know for a fact a lot of adults like this series, too.

On a different note, I actually think this book will work better as a movie. Condense the first 400 words or so into a half hour, and then extend the chase scene. Much of this book depends on visuals, and the movie will provide them without the annoying prose or without (hopefully) too many long, lustful looks between Bella and Edward.

People who liked the book, I'd love to hear from you.

[This message has been edited by annepin (edited October 29, 2008).]


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Unwritten
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quote:
I wish more movie producers, book publishers, tv shows, ect. would see that gaping hole. If the story is clean they make it hokey, but it doesn't have to be.

Me too. And I did like the book. "Smoldering" became my favorite word for about a month. And I still can get into a good argument about what Edward ought to look like--any takers? But I already told you why I think the books are popular, and I'd like to hear different comments.

Melanie
P.S. Gaspard Ulliel


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annepin
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@Unwritten. I must have missed your comments. That's a pretty interesting perspective, and not one that I've heard before. I suppose the flip side of that is that the book creates, and sustains, a great deal of sexual tension that never gets released (I'm saying this after having only read the first book). In a way, we're never satisfied.
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satate
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I think the sexual tension is a big part of it. When my sister was reading it, (this was the first book she'd ever actually finished in her life too) at one point she said I wish they'd kiss already and get it over with.

I also think it's the way she mixed the danger in with the romance. It's a great fantasy. A dangerous boy who's actually good and completely unselfish. I think she created a common dream guy.

What I have found interesting in people who read it, is that they are either hooked from the start or they think it's all right until the chase. It's almost as if there are two different hooks so that she gets a larger audience.


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KayTi
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Well I haven't read the series (I'll get around to it someday, as YA speculative fiction is the genre I prefer to write in) - but I would have to say from the people I talk to, the thing I hear between the lines of what they say is that it's not a depressing tromp through childhood trauma and painful awkwardness and awful crap. It's two just barely flawed characters and their longing, exacerbated by circumstances beyond their control. In short - what it tells me is that there is a market for stories about people who aren't so horrible it's hard to see why their mother likes them, stories about people who you wish *could* be together (but you see why they cannot,) about people who are mostly good most of the time but circumstances (and their natures? maybe?) work against them.

What do you think - am I anywhere near in the ballpark? It's a different reaction than the women I know who do "book clubs" and read the latest popular literary fiction - Water for Elephants or Secret Life of Bees. They may enjoy those books, but they don't speak of them with as much passion and stars in their eyes as the women (yes, only women - but I'm a mom and other moms are who I see) I talk to who have read the Twilight series. They don't stay up til 4 in the morning finishing a book (more than one friend of mine has done this with Twilight books.)


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KStar
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Unwritten-

So funny! "Smoldering" was used SO MANY times in the books, but I totally loved it.

I liked these books a lot. (Not the 4th one so much, the sex killed it, it really did). They made me remember when I was 17, and the things I liked then. If I'd read them at that age I would've been out of my mind obsessed. She wrote the perfect book for a teenage girl.


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annepin
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I dunno, Kayti. I don't think this book is enjoyed in the same way as Secret Life of Bees or Kite Runner, but I feel a lot of fantasy, particularly young adult fantasy, is about kids who are generally good, who maybe have one or two flaws, but mostly are trapped in difficult circumstances. Look at Meg Murray in A Wrinkle Through Time, or Ged in A Wizard of Earthsea (in this case his flaw is pride, but that's sort of the driving factor of the book), Taran in the Prydain series--in the beginning he's headstrong and takes what he has for granted, judges people on superficial qualities, etc.
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