posted
I noticed that a lot of writers (including Mr. Card) use everday names... Mr. Card uses the name of major streets in our little city o' Greensboro. However, I noticed that they only use these names in short stories and never in novels. Is there a reason for this?
Posts: 2 | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I know it's a little late to reply, but I think it has something to do with a couple of things (in my opinion, of course, but I couldn't stand seeing this sit here unanswered).
I think it's directly related to length, for one thing. It's just a short story so therefore any old name will do. It'll most likely never be as popular as a novel anyway, and short stories are mainly written to convey an idea or an observaion, having very little to do with the character itself as far as being the focus of the story.
A novel, on the other hand, will practically require you to tell us about the character, and therefore a name is very important. Why? Because I think a name is almost like a personality. You couldn't have a gang banger with the name Bartholemew. It just doesn't strike fear into anyone. Unless Bartholemew was very smart, and he used that name for a specific purpose.
That was very vague, but for the most part you can think of just about any personality or trait and start affixing names to them. I know in the real world you can be just about anyone with any name (I'd hate to see name discrimination popping up here and there). But as in fiction when conveying an idea should have purpose to the story and make it good, a name is just as much a part of that story. And it doesn't have to be a regular name, either. The more exotic the name, the more exotic the character. The more beautiful the name, the more beautiful the character. Irony would be the only exception if there was one.
posted
Thanks for replying, it took forever for someone to answer. Anyways, what are the popular posts on this site? I actually want some responses next time! It's my fault I must have picked an obscure topic or something.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I came to this site once before and read the topic, but I didn't respond because It didn't sound right to me. But since I don't read short stories, I didn't think I should respond. But my experience with reading novels is that there are as many strange and different name in them as common names. If a story is set in a real place, it is best to use real street names so that the reader can more easily visualize where they are at the time. Sometimes real places with fictional characters can be stronger because of peoples connection to the place, such as historical novels like OSC's Saints. I worry that a novel I'm writing now is using too many ordinary names for my characters. One group of people are from Earth and should have common Earth names. But my other people should not have common names, because they are a different place. I feel obliged to give them ailen or different sounding names. Again, OSC does a good job of this. In his Homecoming series of books he has thre sentient species. The human family line that return to Earth have been away so long that the language has change quite a bit, but is still a combination of vowels and consonants that can be spoken. The two new sentient sepeices that developed on Earth have opposited types of language. One uses mostly consonants, and the other uses mostly vowels. I like to try to say the names. When OSC combines these people together they alter their languages so that more names can be spoken comfortably by all three sentient species. Well, that's a simplified version of what OSC does. But I do think names give a feeling for sameness or differences in people, places, times, or whatever. Wini
Posts: 71 | Registered: Jun 1999
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Consider that culturely, humanity has been recycling the same names for thousands of years, why should this change? After all, even though mankind exists in a shifting, changing enviroment, his personality is just as stubborn set against change.
If writng about an alien species, why should they not have the same structure--keeping in mind that we are dealing with an alien species and their naming conventions could well have no meaning, or pronunication, to us. But to THEIR culture, is would well need be, as in ours.
Anyway, in writing, the self rule I apply to my closeted work is the more outlandish you label a character, the less human he/she/it becomes. We write for others to read. We have to consider the human facter, or it won't be as interesting as it may otherwise be.
posted
re. names, if I may add my .02: because the book i'm working on is one of a series, I decided early on that whatever names I used had got to be able to go through the normal transitions of time and the influx of different languages and still remain recognizable as time "passes" within the books. To me the sound of the name is important. Whatever name I construct will have no meaning, other than what I give it. Yet it has to fit, has to slide into the texture of the story as though it belongs. Can't be jarring, can't have the reader say "what was that?" Names do have power -- they can stop the reader in his/her tracks and bring the reading to a halt. I don't deal with a lot of named characters, but since it is a fantasy, i've also created place names. One trick i've found useful is that of going to the dictionary and finding the origin of names (e.g., wood is derived from witu)and incorporating them.
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For an alien species, you don't want human names (unless that species has adopted them purposefully, in which case you might want to use intentionally banal human names), but the names shouldn't be a burden for the reader. I rather like osc's names in Speaker for the Dead etc, using familiar words for names that nevertheless seemed alien, since what human would be named Human?
Posts: 1 | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Just a quick note: I just moved to Greensboro from the suburbs of Washington, DC. I must say, I'm quite happy to be living so near OSC, and just as happy that he visited Reston, Virginia so often (I've worked in Reston, several of my friends live there). The only reason I mention these locations is because they stick out so clearly in my mind in such OSC books as Ender's Game and Treasure Box. His use of existing geography makes his works much more enjoyable for me than those books that never even describe the physical settings of the characters.
Regarding character names, the best examples I can think of come from OSC's short story collection <u>Monkey Sonatas</u>. None of the characters in any of the stories in that collection have hard-to-pronounce names. Some of them are deceptively simple. For instance: Middle Woman, Kiren, Bork, the Beautiful Land, the Rising, etc. I agree that an entirely alien race would have entirely alien sounds if they had a spoken language, but would they not still, during the course of evolution, seek to keep their own language(s) simple and useful? The hardest book I've read from OSC was Hart's Hope, simply because the names are so long as to be unwieldy.
posted
What an interesting topic - names. They are so commonplace that just about everybody has one, or possibly several. They say that (in real life) the eyes are the window to the soul. I have always believed that this role is played, in print, by the name.
Think about how powerful and evocative the right name can be. What comes to mind when you encounter characters with names like Attila or Adolph?
Names can also be guideposts to temporal or cultural settings: Hezekiah, Chauncey, M'butu. Each of these carries instant overtones. And if those overtones are not compatible with the mood and scene you're trying to establish, they are definitely working against you.
Ironically, I've never had trouble inventing plausible names for unusual settings and time periods. But when it comes to modern, contemporary milieus I get driven to distraction trying to find the right name.
I don't know why, but I can never bring myself to call a character Dave. Or Dennis, or Jason. Such names seem only appropriate in contemporary settings. But to use a common name is to cloak your character in anonymity. I know so many Kevin's that I find it difficult to pin new and unique qualities on 'yet another Kevin'.
posted
I find common names can be great. I mean, isn't it jarring to have a normal-ish character but end up giving him some hellatious name when David or Kevin would do? What are readers supposed to think of a character named Petr (with the second "e" missing) if the person is supposedly a contemporary of theirs? It can work if there's something "special" about the character and you want it to be associated to that name, but often I just find it bizarre and off-putting if I can't fathom the reason for it.
A caveat is in order. If the story is set 50 or even 25 years into the future, I can pretty much tolerate anything in bizarre naming conventions. Our society's standards change so rapidly I wouldn't be suprised by any particular fad that cropped up in the next generation or two.
I used to lampoon this process by proposing that people name thier kids after well respected brand name products whose attributes they hoped their child would emulate. Imagine a first grade classroom filled with little Maytags, Allstates, Volvos, Cadillacs, Hewletts, Microsofts, and so on.
I'm happy to report that people have actually started doing this. Just in dribs and drabs now. Names like Nike are becoming commonplace. Isn't it just a matter of time until we all start seeking corporations to sponsor our child's names? Pity the poor kid who's parents get tricked into a lifetime deal with Alpo.
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A method I have used often to make human, normal sounding names without the problem of using an overly common name (in my opinion since you want your characters to stand out enough to remember then need a name other than John Smith... sorry to all the mormons out there but john is the most common first name and smith is the most common last name). I often, in my own writings, will give one normal name and one that I have created. For example Elson (a characters last name) I got just by replacing an O with and E, so Olson became Elson. Its new, sounds normal, but is enough to help people remember your character (especially usefull if they just heard a discription of the book from someone. I hope the name isn't what makes most people remember your characters... if so that is bad). A first name I created for a character in a story about colonizing Mars is Figger (pronounced Fi j er). I got it from Refrigorator. It went through a somewhat extensive change (took the frigor and changed the spelling) but I have heard from various people that they like it. For alien names, Assuming they are translated into a human language, would probably either sound like the name in the native lanuage or be like Native (Crazy horse, Sitting bull).
posted
I try to name characters in ways that suit them. For me, the character always comes first, and they "tell" me what their names are. Occasionally, I will use the name of a friend (with the letters mixed up, or just their last name, or some other variation), but only if it suits the character. You have to decide how important the character's names are to the development of the story. Would Dune fall apart if Paul Atreides had been Peter Atreides? Probably not. However, Dirty Harry just wouldn't be the same if he was Filthy Harry, now would he?
posted
The idea is that people who want to write, but don't have anything ready (and so can't really participate in a regular writing group--mainly because I won't let them until they have something ready), can go to the Writing Class and get some "instruction" on how to get something ready.
I teach a writing class during winter quarter at the local community school (used to be known as "night school"--this is not a community college but something done during the evening at the local high school), and I figured I could give some of the same instruction and exercises at Hatrack as I do in the regular class I teach.
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