posted
I don't know if this is what you were aiming to communicate, but if you equate belief with the core of being, then my opinion is that believing people don't change is buying a one way ticket to the looney bin.
I was married to someone who believed that people don't change. They might change their hair, their overall look, but fundamentally, (he believed) they don't change. Can't change. I think this outlook on life was critical to the depression he's lived with the entire time I've known him. If you don't think people can change, then you have to believe YOU can't change, and when encountering things about yourself you don't like, there is no hope. None at all. Worse, if you ever suspect that you are unloved and therefore unlovable (as I suspect he thought, and may still think) this too cannot change. It's hopeless.
I also think that the hopelessness that comes from the belief that people cannot change is utterly incompatible with love. Love always hopes, always believes. So not only can you not accept love, you can't give it either.
I believe that the capacity to change is necessary to happiness, to love, to being loved, to healthy relationships.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote: I don't know if this is what you were aiming to communicate, but if you equate belief with the core of being, then my opinion is that believing people don't change is buying a one way ticket to the looney bin.
No, no, no, no. Jebus, I have defended people's ability to change many times on this forum.
I'm saying that everyone has beliefs, and whether or not they belong to a large group who has codified those beliefs, that doesn't change the value of those beliefs to both the individual and society. I'm saying, again, that I don't know whether the word religion really has much semantic value to me.
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posted
I was raised as a Baptist and was currently a Lutheran by marriage when I started Hatrack. I was never very happy there and was becoming increasingly so along with my wife. When we started looking at other denominations, I don't think I would have really considered Methodist except for the presence of Dana here.
We are now Methodists and I can honestly say I have never felt like I fit in, from a religious perspective, as much as I do now.
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I think it's because I lost some of the arrogance of youth. I tended to think that people got what they deserved both good and bad. If I had something, it was because I had "earned" it. If someone else didn't it was because they hadn't. As I saw more of life than the reasonably comfortable suburb where I grew up, I realized that this was hardly the case. I am not "worth" proportionaly more that the people who live on the el or proportionally less than some trust fund baby who has everything money can buy. I realized that a just world is the one you would design if you didn't know who your parents would be.
And nature favors those who are already lucky. The gap is getting wider and wider all the time. This is how nature works. I think as human beings we can do better.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Thank you everyone who shared their personal experiences. There appears to be a significant number of people who have been deeply touched by Hatrack in their lives. So I understand better what people have said in response to the question would you say the following conclusions are accurate?
1) Some people questions their beliefs all the time. Directly and indirectly. 2) The point of questioning a belief is more to reassure ourselves that what we believe is true and sound. 3) If a belief in a particular domain hasn't been established then a new belief is adopted without much challenge. 4) If a belief in a particular domain has already been established then it is extremely difficult to change that belief, especially the more it is questioned and continues ( sometimes being referred to as close-mindedness in this thread), and usually takes an equally strong force like love ( or a tragedy) to make a change.
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posted
Stormy, I actually meant that post to be for Tim, but I smiled at your answer, especially swearing to Jebus.
For changing beliefs, I've been Mormon, agnostic, atheist, and now just a plain old non-denominational Christian. I'm very happy with my current beliefs, as they came rather hard won. I wavered between agnosticsm and atheism for 15 years, give or take, and had it stolen away by stuff I just couldn't account for any other way than miraculous. Nothing big, just lots of small stuff that cumulatively was too good to just explain away as coincidence. But the real clincher was needing to change the way I was living, and truthfully, I only found it possible through Jesus.
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posted
Oh sorry jeniwren I didn't realize you were asking me. As you see in my follow up post I do believe people can change their beliefs. But I also believe that it takes a very strong force for that change to happen, unless it just isn't a strongly held belief. But the more strongly held the more it is defended. Perhaps without realizing it people seem to vehemently hold onto a belief.
At some point in our lives we had no belief, right? Then we adopt beliefs because we decided something or our community around us tells us what to believe. Then it would seem that we hold tightly until an equal ( or strong ) force makes us change it. So then, what is really needed for someone to open themselves up for change without having to go through some type of upheaval? Is it even possible? Do our beliefs become so much of our identity, of who we are, that we feel "wrong" if our belief is not defended?
Posts: 30 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote: So then, what is really needed for someone to open themselves up for change without having to go through some type of upheaval?
That's an excellent question, Tim. I think some of it is sense of self; I know some people who are capable of literally changing their entire worldview at the drop of a pin, upon even the slightest contradiction -- but these people are in the minority. For most people, I think they need to find themselves in a position where their current worldview simply isn't satisfying them anymore, for some reason.
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posted
I really think it's love or at least deep affection; I don't know if it's necessary, but it seems to be sufficient to open someone up. Then you have to let the quality of the idea do the rest of the work.
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