I had to leave the forum for a bit, my dad needed the internet, and then I had to eat dinner, and all this other stuff in between... this being the case, I returned, and got online, only to find that three people IMed me at once, frantically directing me to look at a certain thread that was started in my absence (which is no longer in existence).
I did so, and found, somewhat to my shock, that they had very good reason to be as frantic as they were. I was, frankly, quite stunned by the whole thread. I mean, the original gesture, though perhaps (sorry Rhaegar) executed in bad taste, was a very kind one; he was, after all, expressing concern and sympathy for a problem that had been pressing on my mind, and causing me a great deal of pain, and personal anxiety. I had posted on it on the hug thread, and occasionally the last post thread, but had kept it to those threads, specifically to avoid Hatrackers feeling that I am invading their forum, or taking over, or in some dramatic way calling for attention. It was my understanding that the hug thread is in existence for the purpose of receiving support and/or advice when one is in a state of distress. I did not realize that the case had to be as extreme as sexual abuse in order for it to count as a severe personal problem.
I was, as I said, stunned, and somewhat hurt by some of the comments that were made on the other thread... to the best of my understanding (and PLEASE, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) I didn't do anything that warranted comments such as these:
quote: I have to say, if this turns out to be something along the lines of "he's making me go to a cheap school instead of paying for an expensive private school", "he's messing with my life", or "he just doesn't UNDERSTAND me!", I'm going to be a little ticked.
Things that would warrant this much drama:
Sexual and/or physical abuse. Sudden and extreme poverty, or similar sudden upheaval of life. Loss of a loved one. Self or loved one with terminal illness.
I can't think of any others. But seriously, if it's not one of the above or something similarly serious, it should stay in the hug thread where it belongs.
OK, first of all, those are not the only issues that can make a person unhappy. I had every reason to believe that if something upset me, I could look for sympathy, hugs, and friendship on the forum. Maybe I completely misunderstood, but that's how I understood Hatrack -- a friendly place in which it is ok to ask for help. If I misunderstood, then please, someone correct my misapprehension, but I don't think I did. At least, that's how I've read others' posts, and that's how I've been posting here for half a year. Nobody's had a problem with it before.
quote: Well... to that I guess I'd have to say that one shouldn't broadcast such a personal problem in such a dramatic and very public way unless one is willing to accept that it will annoy some people. If this does turn out to be something serious, then I will sympathize, but if it's something lame and childish, I will be annoyed. It's the risk you take by creating such a cry for attention on a mostly adult and mostly mature forum.
This comment, I think, hurt me the most out of all of them. I would just like to point out that I did not start the thread myself, that I kept my problems solely to threads whose purpose is to offer a shelter for those who need support. I may be repeating myself here, but I feel the need to say this again, this is important to me; I did not, as it was so bluntly stated "broadcast such a personal problem in such a dramatic and very public way." I believe I did quite the contrary, trying not to let my own feelings get in the way of any other discussion. In fact, numerous times on Rhaegar's thread did people mention that, had it not been for that thread, they would never have known I was going through a tough time at all. Or they didn't realize what the problem was. Does this sound like I overdramatize and broadcast my issues to the world? If the only reason half the forum knows I'm having them is through a thread that someone other than myself created? As for the end of that statement, I have felt welcomed and treated kindly by most members of the forum since the beginning of my stay here. Yes, even the adult ones. I have felt that if I don't behave like an idiot, I am welcomed into their conversations and discussions, even though I am only seventeen. If this is a wrong assumption to make, please let me know, and I will stop doing it, but that's the impression I got from the kinder elders here, who seemed to appreciate having us "young'uns" around the forum. If that is a problem, I can go elsewhere.
quote: Still, I haven't posted a single negative comment in the hug thread itself, and I never will. It does, however, bother me to see it spilling out into new and totally pointless new threads.
Posting on Rhaegar's thread was not mandatory. If you were annoyed by the thread, it would have been overly simple not to post on it, to ignore it, or to add constructive comments as to why it was not a good idea, instead of lashing out, according to personal feelings. I was mildly taken aback by that, as the main opposition point seemed to be that bringing personal drama into the issue was not acceptable. Therefore, I found it rather hypocritical when comments such as "I don't like the hug thread," and "It bothers me to see this spilled into new threads" appeared in the argument. That seemed to contradict the opposing ideas put forth in that thread.
quote: This thread, though, is different, as it both violently attacks someone none of us know in a way that is totally unfair.
First of all, it did not violently attack anyone, it's a JOKE... Rhaegar was merely trying to show a bit of moral support... I'm so sorry if his methods of dealing with things are different from yours, maybe his joke was in bad taste, but I believe that's for me to decide. Besides, they do know my father, but that is beside the point; the point is that they care, about me (however egotistical and self-centered that may sound) and wanted to show their support. How they did it is not up to you to judge, I appreciate the thought, and the gesture, even if some of you other Hatrackers took it a little too seriously. And, as was pointed out, even if you felt that the joke was in bad taste and wanted to comment about it, fine; there was no need for personal abuse and animosity.
I guess I shouldn't really go on for much longer, this is ridiculously long as it is, but I needed to respond to some of the comments that were made there, that I felt were unjust. Especially as I had no right to defend myself, having been gone while the thread was constructed, and in full swing. It distressed me, when I finished reading the thread, to see what had happened in it, not because I felt that every single comment was unjustified, but that I felt that some people were being very insensitive. Maybe that is just me, but I found some of the arguments to be entirely uncalled for. And since the argument was predominantly about me, and my dramatic habits of announcing myself and my personal issues to the world, I feel it is perfectly within my right to say so now. Of course, I may be wrong, as apparently my posts have caused offense in the past, and perhaps shared too much information, or dominated discussions with theatrical or melodramatic accounts of my woes.
Thank you, to all who made it this far, I appreciate your listening to me respond. If what I said has offended, or anything I may have done in the past has caused any ill will, and people resent me and my ideas, that is not a problem, I can take myself elsewhere. I'm so sorry, Hatrack, if I've done anything horribly wrong, if I have violated the ways of the forum, or if I have taken advantages. It was not my intent. I came here with the image of a friendly, welcoming forum, and until this point it had seemed to me to be that way. I'm sure it will continue to do so, once this issue it resolved, if people decide that I can stay, that I have not caused planets to quake, and windows to shatter. If I have, then I really am most truly sorry.
[/RANT]
And, rant aside and done with, I would like to post an extra large thank you to those who stuck up for me in that thread, I really really appreciated it, thank you everyone. It at least made me a little happier that not everyone felt all at once as some others did, where I discovered to my shock and horror that my posts have been resented. So, extra hugs to you, for comments such as these:
quote: I weill behave, and not call Raia's father a jerk, but I still say he shouldn't be so mean to someone who is as wonderful, as sweet, as kind, as kind, and as careing as Raia
quote: I don't know all the details of Raia's problem, but obviously she's very upset about it.
I don't see how telling her she's overdramatising unless she's been abused can help the situation at all, except perhaps upset her more.
quote: Raia, just ignore all the un-well-wishers
(((((((((((((((((Raia)))))))))))))))))
I'm o/l anytime you want to talk.
quote: I'm sure everyone wishes nothing but well for Raia. She's a sweetheart.
quote: I adore Raia, and know what a difficult time she is having right now.
quote: I don't think anyone should be deciding for Raia whether it is 'ok' or 'justified' for her to be crying herself to sleep. She is, and she's obviously upset.
I just wanted to say again, those comments did not go unnoticed, in fact, they brought tears to my eyes, they were so beautiful. Thank you so so so so so much to all of you, I really really appreciated that. to all of you guys, thank you so so much.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I do think this forum is mostly very supportive of other people's problems, and I hope it will continue to be so.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Raia, I don't know the details of any problems of anybody that doesn't basically spell it out for me. As a person, you're a good person and haven't attacked anyone or been rude that I've seen. You are a respectable person, IMO. Sorry that things stink, and sorry that you were hurt by peoples comments (but thats between you and them ).
Posts: 9754 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I'm sorry people were getting rude about it. I didn't want to be mean to your dad, so I just kept it to hugging you. (((((Raia)))))
Posts: 4174 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I do get that my original comments were very suveer, they were meant as a joke, but when rivka mentioned them and I realized that they were being taken seriously, I figured they should be changed, so they were.
And to be fair I have only met her father breifly, but I have met him, anyway I guess some of it was a bit out of hand if you take it seriously, I'm sorry for my part of it, and sorry I couldn't be online at the right time to say something about some of the posts, but oh well, it is gone now.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Raia))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) I'm glad you got to vent, and for one hope you stay, and have also found hatrack bery welcomeing (despite my age and lack of knowlege) So I hope you stay.
Posts: 2332 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
no one mentioned it the first time I wrote it, but then I was threatening people with a battle ax at the time so maybe that had some influence on it Posts: 2332 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I have the opposite problem to Marek: because I read heaps, I know how to spell words but often not how to pronounce them.
When I was 6 I was convinced 'milk' was pronounced 'millek'... You'd think my parents would have corrected me. Unfortunately, they thought it was cute.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
oh, well mine might be a symtom of my dyslexia, if it sounds right in my head then it is close enough, but in spoken language I pronounce things very well (with the very rare southern accent)
oops, I wasn't trying to derail the thread, it is a very good topic post in my slightly biased opinion.
Posts: 2332 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
So, for future reference, nobody will be slamming someone who is largely unknown and cannot defend themselves for the sake of helping someone else out and then chalking it up to a 'joke'.
quote: So, for future reference, nobody will be slamming someone who is largely unknown and cannot defend themselves for the sake of helping someone else out and then chalking it up to a 'joke'
posted
I saw the other thread very briefly during school, but didn't comment on it; I thought it was in very bad taste.
That said, Raia, don't EVER feel like you can't turn to us for support, because you ALWAYS can. Or, even better yet, just give Marek a call or something.
posted
<<<<Raia>>>>> I'm sorry I didn't see any of that, but Raia, you are an important and valued part of Hatrack. I'm glad you're here. I hope things get better soon at home.
Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Oh, lordy loo. First a surprise snowstorm, now this? What a day.
There's nothing quite as fun as having all of your posts taken out of context and posted on a new thread with the purpose of showing everyone what a mean jerk you are. What, no jokes about axing me? Why isn't this thread called "We Hates Ayelar"?
I don't know why this situation has gotten under my skin so much. Maybe it was the cries of hatred and violence against Raia's dad, maybe it was the "I want to shoot myself" posts I saw on the hug thread, maybe it was the way I felt teased by the way the problem was being constantly discussed despite it's apparent secrecy, as though the rest of Hatrack was being whispered around... All in all, it felt very dramatic and high school and tiring, and it annoyed me. It did then, and it does now. I like to come to Hatrack to experience adult conversations, not vague references to teenage soap operas.
And, since I know this makes me a little less popular than Survivor's Jon, I think it's definitely time for me to take a break. Please don't bother sending me hate mail.
Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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I think the problem is that in the absence of real data, we are all free to think whatever we want.
So some of us rally around Raia and hope she's doing better. That's good. And I'm proud of Hatrack for its kindliness and ability not to judge people.
Some of us can't help thinking that maybe this is overblown. Similar things have been in the past. We see suicide threats here on a fairly frequent basis and, thankfully, most of them are just people blowing off steam, not actually writing with the intention of killing themselves.
But, here's the point...
We DON'T KNOW! So, being good people, we take them all seriously. And that means we get very worked up over the un-named ills of others only to find out, sometimes, that it was all just an over-reaction to some legitimate attempt at parenting (or some other thing that isn't nearly as big a deal as we were lead to believe.
So, frankly, if you don't want skepticism, give details. If you want sympathy without explaining yourself, then just ask for sympathy and then use AIM or e-mail or the phone to tell the people you want to tell. But don't drop hints. And don't say you're going to kill yourself. Or want to kill anyone else.
It is either serious (as in you have a real problem requiring immediate intervention) or it is very juvenile, offensive and just plain insensitive towards the people here to do care. A lot.
Final point:
I really don't know WHAT went on here. I think Ayelar (and others) had a legitimate negative reaction to the previous thread. It talked about wanting to kill someone. We don't really go for that here.
I don't know what went on between Raia and her father, but I figured if she wanted us to know, she'd tell us. She never did. But it's her business whether her problems and needs are aired on this forum. So didn't like the previous thread because it wasn't anyone's place but hers to decide what to say.
Having said all that, I'm feeling really very mean and I don't intend that at all. I just think that there's a lot of room for skepticism and it is entirely understandable in response to a thread talking about murder.
Even if we all "know" it was a joke, or hyperbole.
So maybe next time, just do it differently from the start and the reaction will be more uniformly positive.
<<<Raia>>> I really hope this is NOT something serious. I don't mind being "teased" by stuff that turns out not to be that important. It, by the same token, means that the things you're going through now will pass. And things will thus get better soon. I hope that's the case. If its something more serious and lasting, then I really hope you have friends and counselors with whom you can share the full story and thus get more than the sympathy we offer here. If it is serious, and you are really considering shooting yourself, please go get some help NOW! Real help!
But this is a society. There are going to be things that are annoying, because that's what happens when humans get together. You don't get to dictate what other people do, and if you're annoyed, unless it violates something serious in the forum and/or it is specific to you, just ignore it.
You're the not the queen. Give it up. You don't have the right to slam on someone else's possible pain.
quote:You don't get to dictate what other people do, and if you're annoyed, unless it violates something serious in the forum and/or it is specific to you, just ignore it.
You don't get to dictate what other people do, and if you're annoyed, unless it violates something serious in the forum and/or it is specific to you, just ignore it.
___________________________________________
While I didn't get into the whole situation, the quotes I read in the first post weren't anything that violated forum rules.
quote:knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.
Maaaaaybe if you stretch the meaning, she could've been seen as abusive or hateful. But I think both of those terms imply intent. All I saw was the expression of an opinion, no matter how insensitive.
This seems to be a complete 180 from your stance last week, though, Kat. Are we a society, or are we a forum?
I guess this may seem like a big turn from my stance last week, but I think we've already established that I'm someone who isn't exactly a master of the art of nicety.
If you post something here, know that you're going to get some response that doesn't please you. Especially if you're new, don't know anyone very well, and post extremely intimate personal information. It's very easy to be objective in such cases. And since the most social people are becoming less happy with Hatrack and post-slutting, hugging, smiling (yet cliquey and anti-social) newbies are becoming more prevalent, I'd expect more objectivity in the future.
So we should all grow a few more coats of skin. Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Very humanitarian of you to let me have it, but I think you'll need the top more than I will. But I'll accept the bottom. I'd like to have children someday.
Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Deal. You put on the bottom of the hot pink string bikini, and wait for me at the sand pit. I'll totally meet you there really, really soon. Don't worry about the bystanders; they are there to watch the game.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Well, I suppose if you did actually show, you'd just be a big bowl of Alpha-Bits or refrigerator magnets or something.
And though the derailment of a newbie's thread seems like a bit of poetic justice, I must be getting off to sleep now.
Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Ayelar, I don't know that I saw everything you posted, but the first stuff you said, I agreed with. I went wading through the hug thread to find out more information on how Raia was doing, since we were told her problems were "obvious if you read the hug thread", by people who know her better than we do. They weren't. The only thing that became apparent were that Raia was having a difficult time with her father, and it had something to do with college applications.
I mentally chalked it up to the "leaving the nest" syndrome which is hard on both parents and kids, but at the same time she did say some disturbing things. I don't know what went on as far as the thread snowballing, since I left work and stopped checking Hatrack for a while. Like many things at Hatrack it probably took on a life of its own, and I really doubt you, Ayelar, were specifically to blame.
So take a break if you need to but don't leave. If you do I'm going to have to pull out Mack's thumping stick and come find you!
---
Raia, hang in there sweetie. From the bit that I know, I know that college applications are horrible, and that caring parents are as stressed out over the applications and what college to choose or not choose as their kids are and then compound their kids stresses.
posted
Meh. The thing bugged me was that it wasn't Raia making the post. It's one thing for to complain about my own parents, it's quite another for someone else to say they want to hit them with a pickaxe. Underneath all my complaining is the fact that I love them and I just feel like whining. Were someone else to complain about them it comes across as foolish and attention-seeking at best and a little creepy at worst. And, as was pointed out, all I've heard about this so far is "Raia and her father don't get along" (pardon my paraphrasing). You'll fogive me if I thought the thread soap opera-y.
Not that any of that really matters at this point. I just thought everyone would be interested in what I had to say.
Now back to doing whatever it is I do around here.
Edit: Grammar. Yes, I realize there are probably still grammatical errors, what, do you want to make a federal case about it?
[ December 02, 2003, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Bob the Lawyer ]
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I think it just seemed like a big deal because we were all trying to be supportive of Raia, and that made it look like a big issue. We love Raia very much and we don't like to see her sad. Rhaegar was just trying to show his support for Raia. Please everyone, can you stop complaining about it now? Can we go back to being nice, and cheery towards each other?
(((((Raia))))) (((((Rhaegar))))) (((((Everyone who was nice to Raia)))))
Posts: 4174 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Eruve - Nobody is questioning the motive, they're questioning the means.
While I appreciate that fact that you just want "everyone to get along," there is going to be some amount of confrontation in any community, and it's not necessarily a bad thing.
Raia knows that people support her. The point is, the way that support began wasn't appropriate in some people's minds, and so it's being called into question. It's perfectly reasonable that those people be able to express their opinion on the subject.
Posts: 7600 | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I don't know...I read the thread and didn't think it was a joke. I didn't know what Raia's dad did, but I hoped (while also hoping not, for Raia's sake) that it was something worth getting that worked up about it.
quote:I'm so sorry if his methods of dealing with things are different from yours, maybe his joke was in bad taste, but I believe that's for me to decide. Besides, they do know my father, but that is beside the point; the point is that they care, about me (however egotistical and self-centered that may sound) and wanted to show their support. How they did it is not up to you to judge, I appreciate the thought, and the gesture, even if some of you other Hatrackers took it a little too seriously.
I didn't think it was a joke, as I mentioned above. Since it was a joke, I think it was in VERY poor taste, as we could hardly know it was unless he said so, which he never did, as far as I saw. As for judging the method of support that was given, it is very much up to anyone who reads the darned thing to make judgements. They posted it on Hatrack, which is a public forum. You post something openly, you take your chances on the reception it gets. So please don't tell us we are only allowed to judge or respond to the things you think is our business.
That said, obviously this is a place for support, but I don't think it should ever be mistaken for face to face reality. Some people may disagree with me on that, but personally, I think if you have a serious problem, get whatever encouragement you can from here, but figure that you're going to have to get the *real* help in meatspace.
*would also like to add that Ralphie is the coolest, both online and in real life* Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ayelar, if it came off that I hate you, or something, I'm sorry, I completely didn't mean that at all. So here is my formal apology: "I apologize for making you feel like that, or think that, it was not my intent, and I don't hate you." I didn't take your comments out of context, not at all, I pulled them straight as they were, and tried to keep the whole thing as fair as possible. I never once, as some others have implied in this thread, berated you for having given your opinion. This is a public forum, and it is completely within your rights to do that. What bothered me was the way you stated it, and the way you claimed that I was craving attention, when it was clear that that thread had not been started by me, and I didn't even get to see it until right before it was deleted.
That's the only part that really got to me, out of what you all have been saying; comments such as "that is so juvenile" accopmlished nothing, as, as far as I could tell, I did nothing juvenile, I kept myself and my problems to the hug thread and the last post thread, and I specifically did NOT start threads or anything, whining about my problems, and putting everyone through them. The hug thread is there for support and sympathy, so I posted on it that I needed both. I still don't see what I did wrong.
Bob, I understand that comments such as those would be worrying, but I thought that since I stated there at least three times that I wouldn't actually do it, that it's just how I was feeling, that it would resolve some of those issues; I am not intedning to kill myself, as I said MANY times there, and sorry if it wasn't enough, but I did definitely feel like that a lot over the past week or so. So I posted that, with later comments saying that I won't do it, that nobody needs to worry about that becoming a reality. I mean, maybe I should have been more articulate than saying it in plain English at least three times, but pardon me for not getting that. (And I'm so sorry, that sounds so awful, I sound like a complete jerk there, but there you go -- that's how I feel, maybe that's what I am, if so, I'm sorry.)
Again, sorry to have interrupted the forum with my issues, it was not my intent to have this turn into a "teenage soap opera," as so many of you put it. If that's how it came out, my apologies, please, all of you go back to what you were doing, and leave me to stew in my melodramatic, tragic life.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
As the starter of the thread in question I would like to say a few thing.
One, I have known Raia and her father for a while now, and I wasn't posting about someone I've never met.
Two, I started that thread as a way for close friends of Raia to show support for Raia, the pickaxe element was thrown in for a bit of comic relief to a bad situation, It was not intended to turn into the bashfest certain people made it.
Three, I had a crush on Raia for three years until about six months ago, so I deem myself in a good enough position to be able to have the right to care about her, she is one of my closest friends, and once the thread became the bash it did, their was no option but to kill it.
Posts: 1900 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Yeah, parts of the thread were in bad taste, but it had good intentions. I understand that some people don't like dramatics, but no one is forcing you to read particular threads. (At least, not that I know of. ) I just had a little bit of a problem with people calling or implying that other people's problems stupid and trivial without knowing what they were. Ayelar, you're taking most of the blame from people because your posts were filled with very strong wordings and you said things flat out that other people hinted at. I think people are getting too worked up about things right now (by that I mean the ones who aren't directly involved/don't actually know what's going on) including me. I think everyone needs a good fluff thread right about now. (((((((Raia)))))))
Posts: 981 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Julie, I agree with you. And since you wanted a fluff thread how about we all go bouncin'? In fact, I'm bouncin' right now! Pain killers anyone? (If you want to know...email me)
Posts: 23 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
The comments about violence were "threatening" per the user agreement. Once someone alluded to the hug thread, I was satisfied that if I wanted to know more I could check there.
Thoughts similar to what Ayelar wrote occurred to me, but I refrained from sharing. After all, it is conceivable that there is abuse, but the thing one complains about to others is college admissions.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Guys, lay off of Raia, I was the one who started the thread, if you want to bitch about it, bitch at me, leave Raia alone. And since when has "Thwacking" someone on hatrack been a unusual occurance?
Posts: 1900 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Seriously, the comments really got to Raia, and they were really out of place and misdirected. Shame on those who b****ed at her, you should have b****ed at me.
[This post has been edited by KathrynHJanitor to remove two words that were complained about by a Hatrack citizen. And no, the complainer was not Pooka. I wouldn't out a person like that.]
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
It at least made me a little happier that not everyone felt all at once as some others did, where I discovered to my shock and horror that my posts have been resented. So, extra hugs to you, for comments such as these:![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
to all of you guys, thank you so so much.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Taunt]](graemlins/taunt.gif)
Bite me, sweetie.
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
(If you want to know...email me)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Don't hate Rhaegar!
