quote:These soft and comfortable fitted tees assert a powerful message in support of women's rights.
MAN. That's just sick. Having an abortion is NOT a celebration about women's rights. Nor should it be a cause of pride. Yuck.
Posts: 1990 | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Is this for real, or is this someone trying to hurt Planned Parenthood? It looks legit to me, but this is outrageous enough that I have to ask...
If this is true, it's disturbing. I'm all for women's rights and equality and all those wonderful things, but this is not the way to promote them. So much for "safe, legal, and rare."
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
So, I guess the purpose of this thread is to share in the outrage over the t-shirt?
I feel so alone with no outrage to share.
I wonder how many outrageous outraged posters we will get who will outrageously post their outrage? I'm guessing...100.
Seriously, what is shocking about the t-shirt? The fact that there are people who get abortions that aren't ashamed of it? Is this news?
The statement selling the t-shirt is 100% true. Currently, abortions are a legal right that women enjoy. Witnessing the outrageously outraged posts, it does seem to be a powerful statement.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I was hoping it was fake, too, Shig. But sadly, no.
I'm not all that surprised, Storm, just saddened and nauseated.
While it certainly is legal at this point in time, I don't think making abortion chic is good for women at all, let alone society as a whole. Even ardent pro-choicers should be hoping for at least less need for abortion, no?
This shirt is actually promoting it. Which is what sickens me.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2004
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By the way, my last post was a little over the top, I think. I just didn't want this whole thread to be along the lines of 'That makes me so sad!' 'That's terrible!' 'Oh, no!'
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Not promoting it directly, but it's certainly trying to make it more socially acceptable, rather than backing it as a last-resort option.
One good thing about the shirt is that it'll drive a wedge between the rabid "nothing less than abortion on demand" crowd, which will approve of the shirt, and the more moderate "reduce abortion by social means, rather than forcing morality through legislation" Pro-choicers.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I don't see a problem with it being socially acceptable.
In fact, I think it's a step forward. Certainly better than shipping girls off to live with 'grandma' for a month or so while they recover.
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Storm, there's a big difference between not being ashamed and proud.
If I wear a shirt with my college's logo, it because I'm proud of it. If I wear a shirt advertising that I ran in a charity race, it's because I'm proud of it.
We can argue for pages over whether abortion is a right or not, but please don't tell me someone should be proud of the fact that they did it.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Through the abortion debates on hatrack, I had come to feel that most pro-choicers were not *for* abortion, but against the government taking away the choice. That was something I could understand -- something I could in good conscience work with and compromise with.
This T-shirt appears to be advocating abortion. "Look at how cool I am -- I had an abortion!" This is not something I want to work with or compromise with.
So, yeah, it appears that the biggest effect this will have is as wedge-driving.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
It may be that I have a wierd radar about this sort of thing, but I think you're all missing the point--where could anyone wear this shirt in good taste?
I'm hardly Victorian in my ideas about propriety, I think that that's way beyond socially acceptable in a typical public setting. A protest,maybe. Not something to wear to the grocery store, though.
Posts: 903 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
There is a difference between 'socially acceptable' and 'socially desireable'. And the latter is what the t-shirt aims for, even if it *also* aims for acceptability.
After all, you don't buy t-shirts for things you thing are necessary or OK, etc. You buy t-shirts for things you LIKE, things you wish to promote, something that appeals to you.
The right to have an abortion can be said to be an issue (partially) of women's rights. The actual practice, however, is far more-as many millions of women (and men who are with those women) can attest.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:I'm hardly Victorian in my ideas about propriety, I think that that's way beyond socially acceptable in a typical public setting. A protest,maybe. Not something to wear to the grocery store, though.
Have you seen what kind of T-shirts people will wear in public these days? "Socially acceptable" is becoming far more loose lately.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote: Currently, abortions are a legal right that women enjoy.
I don't think a sane woman would enjoy the actual abortion. As for the right to have one, I think it is a legal right "enjoyed" by men more often than women.
P.S. I think progress would be if a man got a tatoo everytime he was the father of an aborted baby. It wouldn't have to be visible until he was naked.
posted
It's sacrificing human beings in support of a selfish political agenda. I join in the vomiting.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
To be fair, not everyone feels that way. But the t-shirt is designed to make the practice both more acceptable and more desireable.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I don't think the shirt is intended as a message of jubilant celebration, "wheee...chalk up another one!"
The idea, I think, is designed to combat the social stigma that people tend to condemn women who have had abortions and view these women as faceless evils without appreciating any considerations that went into the decision-making process. I don't think it will be a particularly effective tactic, but I believe this is the reasoning.
As to whether or not abortion should or shouldn't happen - I've already made my stance known on previous threads.
posted
Yes, I don't think it is meant as a celebration, either. And I suppose it could be argued that, since the stigma is high, the counteracting influence must be dramatic as well-thus it could be said that it's not meant to make it more desireable at all.
I don't buy it, though. The very people who would publicly wear such a t-shirt are the ones (most likely) who are the most radical about the issue. They're hardly the best ambassadors for making abortion more socially acceptable.
No, I still think the effort is designed at least in part to make abortion more socially desireable, because I think that is part of Planned Parenthood's agenda-making abortion a more desireable option versus other options.
Here's a question: why should abortion become more socially acceptable? It is already universally available.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Planned Parenthood's mission is *not* to make having an abortion more desirable!
I don't understand where people get that idea. Have any of you actually BEEN to a Planned Parenthood? Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
What this t-shirt does is force people to own up to the humanity of the mother. What if someone you loved and cared about had an abortion but the whole family denies/ignores it?
If that hypothetical woman showed up at a family gathering or something with this shirt on, it wouldn't be a statement of pride or an 'in your face' thing -- it simply forces the people around you to acknowledge that there are faces, people, and *humanity* behind this decision. The anti-abortion lobby gives a lot of face to the fetus and not a whole lot to the mother -- this is, I believe, an attempt to counter that trend.
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Gasp? Go into the lion's den? Perish the thought! </sarcasm>
Unfortunately Kas, you are unlikely to change the outlook of people who are so deeply entrenched in their positions.
Which is an observation to be made for the extremes on either side of the fence.
-Trevor
Edit: As Rak pointed out, only the most radical are inclined to wear this t-shirt, if only because most women don't want the conflict people are likely to throw at her because of the shirt.
Which is why I tend to think it's going to be an ineffective ploy, but oh well.
quote:Have any of you actually BEEN to a Planned Parenthood?
No, but I do get mail from them regularly. They do promote abortion as the best solution to a multitude of situations, and I base that opinion on the literature they send me.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I wonder if pro-lifers will come out with a shirt that says "I didn't have an abortion" and what kind of impact that statement would have on people who haven't seen the Planned Parenthood shirt. Same kind of impact?
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
I find this very distasteful. I agree with Kasie, though, that Planned Parenthood's mission is not to make abortion more desirable, but to give women the means to be in control of her reproductive health from education to family planning to health screenings as well as support for unexpected pregnancies and abortions. Sadly, abortion is the only PR that they seem to get and I think this was a bad move.
posted
I should amend my previous statement-I was wrong when I said that Planned Parenthood's agenda was to promote and increase the rate of abortions.
So instead I'll say that, like all organizations, Planned Parenthood has a more radical element which has, among other goals, the advancement and increased desireability of abortion. Just like I should not be associated with blood-throwing doctor-killers, Planned Parenthood should not be associated with militant 'feminazis'.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
If people wore shirts say "I DIDN'T have an abortion.", they would be subject to and (rightly) open to accusations of self-righteousness.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote: I don't understand where people get that idea. Have any of you actually BEEN to a Planned Parenthood?
Hmmm, which time? The time I went to get proof of pregnancy for my insurance company, and they tried to get me to have an abortion, despite the fact that I told the woman from the get-go that it was a planned pregnancy?
Me: *Happy smiles* Her: Is this a planned pregnancy? Me: Yes *waves and smiles to husband in waiting room* Her: I'm going to ask you a sensitive question. Does your husband force you to have sex? Me: Uhh....what? Her: Do you feel like your husband forced you to have sex against your will? Me: Um, no. We have a consensual sexual relationship. *confused look* Her: Did he force you to stop using birth control in an effort to get you pregnant? Me: No! What are you talking about? Her: You seem to be getting upset. Are you sure that you want this baby? You have other options, you know.
posted
It's interesting how things are different in other countries...over here (Brazil) abortion is considered a serious crime. This year we're having a serious (sometimes getting ugly) discussion about what would be "mitigating circumstances" that would allow an abortion. Two women were allowed to abort when their fetuses (it is right? The Latin plural would be feti or fetii, but ...) were foud to have some fatal disease (where it's brain do not evolve). The Catholic Church (very strong over here) sued the women and they could not abort anymore. One of them still mananged to do it while the court order pended, the other not. She followed the pregnancy until its end and the child died 4 days later. Ugly stuff.
posted
Claudia - I double-checked the PP website as well to verify the existence of the shirt, which led to my belief it wasn't designed as a celebration.
As for the instinctive, queasy reaction - I don't think it's a bad thing. Abortion, in my opinion, is not a casual act and most people will feel sorry for the woman who had to make such a choice and the pain she went through.
"Feel sorry for" seems condescending, but I'm not sure how to better phrase it - "I regret the suffering you had to endure" might work better, but it seems no less pretentious.
You're a pediatric doctor? An ability to empathize with people is absolutely critical in your line of work - which you already know. Unfortunately, it can be a painful burden to bear as well.
posted
Hi, TMedina. Thankfully, we have a laic government, here in Brazil. The government is trying to expand the usage of condoms. As you may know, Brazil has one of the world's most aknowledged and advanced Anti-AIDS program. So, the condom is the most popular anti-pregnancy device used over here. Unfortunatelly, the Catholic and Neo-Pentecostal protestant churches are always at odds with the government approach, as they think the best way to prevent unwanted pregnancy or AIDS is pre-marital celibacy.
In big cities like Rio or São Paulo, people usually dismiss the theological factor, but in rural areas, where people are poorer and less educated, most still pay heed to their priests. So, we have very poor families with 9, 10 kids. My grandmother (my father's mom) is a good example, since she had 9 sons and daughters. only 6 survived infancy, and most of them had to work during childhood in order to have enough money to buy some food and clothing. Only my father and 3 siblings survived to reach adulthood.
So, if you ask me: you think your grandma would be right if she decided to abort some of her sons or daughters? I really don't know what would be more cruel: to abort or the darwinism to which my father, uncles and aunts were subjects. I guess if people just had information and acted upon it (taking pills, using condoms, etc) the abortion would not be as sought after a solution as it is today (even here where it is illegal).
Posts: 1785 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:The message of the day is that women might have complex, or even painful, experiences with abortion, but they are still confident they made the right decision and adamant that it had to be their decision to make.
That's just as broad as saying that women regret having abortions, isn't it? I'm positive not all women are sure they made the right decision. Just from odds and human nature, I'm sure that some women do regret having abortions, and they remember it always as the child that never was. The above statement is true for some women, but as written it's no more true than its counterpart.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Yes, but it's the medium that makes it so appaling.
Tight-fitting t-shirts are commonly emblazoned with glittery letters saying "hottie," "foxy," or "my boyfriend's cuter than yours." Putting a statement with such weighted intent on a cute little tight t-shirt is the really audacious part.
It's alluding to carefree youth culture. It's sending an unstated message of frivolity. It's being stated on the same wavelength as "someone went to Miami and all I got was this stupid t-shirt."
They are not succeeding in adding humanity or respect to this issue. Humanity and respect are accomplished on decent and respectful platforms. A t-shirt is neither. What Planned Parenthood is doing with this specific statement is far more insidious than simply getting the word out. They're rubbing the faces of their opponents in it.
Not that they don't have every right to use whatever debate tactics they choose; however, I don't think the results of this are going to be favorable for anyone on either side of the debate. The people who aren't either really pissed off or really self-righteously supportive are going to be hurt, insulted, or ashamed.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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