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She (as far as we know) left Hatrack, feeling that she no longer fit in here, because we were too preoccupied, in her view, with status and "being cool."
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About three weeks ago. The thread was Papa Moose's "So, . . . " thread. (The exact title has been repressed.)
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I still talk to her on the phone all the time. She's always the first person who gets to hear my new songs. :-) In my world, she's cooler than cool beans. But I respect and understand her decision.
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I enjoyed her presence here, and she is certainly an important part of the community. I hope she does come back eventually.
Though, having been called "one of the wolf children" by her many times over the years, I can honestly say I would be happier if she checked that particular weapon at the door.
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Oh, I noticed. Just assumed that you were putting in all your spare time on your new this old house and exploring your new neighborhood.
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You know, the wolf children in the video game that Ender plays. The ones that Ender drowns, one by one.
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Elizabeth, aka was extremely critical of some people, and even called some of us by name, because we weren't nice enough to friends of hers that dropped by the forum. I was one of them, though this happened quite a while ago.
The wolf children is a reference to the children in the game Ender played while at Battle School in Ender's Game.
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She also used it to describe anyone who doesn't take bullies as seriously as she does, or doesn't respect cats as much as she does. And, now, for people who don't treat newbies as well as she does.
It hurts, especially knowing how seriously she takes it.
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I see Anne Kate as Emily Dickinson - so incredibly fragile. I want to wrap her in bubble wrap and cotton. If she has to take off, then that's okay.
I think she sees these things as an issue of strength - the strong protect the weak, where the weak are newbies, cats, and victims, and the strong are those that do the things that need protecting against. She makes perfect sense when you see her that way.
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I know you wouldn't, but that makes sense, right? Putting her in the position of valiant defender of the downtrodden puts you in the position of downtrodder, and you don't agree with that, so you don't think she is.
I'm not saying whether she is or not, but I do believe that her actions stem from that mindset.
[ February 02, 2005, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
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I love Anne Kate. We don't agree on everything, but to me she's like a china doll that's carefully draped herself in thorns.
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I think it's perfectly possible to defend the downtrodden without attacking others.
I think one of the things you should do, if you see yourself as a defender, is to make a supreme effort to understand others. Not make value judgments and define people as cruel or vicious simply because they don't have the same priorities as you do.
Not everyone thinks cats deserve the same protection as people do. That doesn't make the people who feel that way vicious or cruel. I could see it if the people were intentionally torturing cats for fun, but because someone doesn't want to adopt every stray cat that crosses their path does not make them cruel.
Like we were talking about in the flag burning thread, when you go overboard with something you hurt your message. When you go overboard and attack people and call them names, then folks don't tend to want to listen to what you say. And, you're going to alienate quite a few folks who would probably have been on your side if you'd approached them differently.
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I was thinking about this at lunch... I knew it would be a short matter of time before someone mentioned that ak's current absence meant nothing negative should be said about her.
I understand that, in one sense... but, given the rather public and completely voluntary manner of her departure, do the posts on this thread really count as talking about her behind her back?
I mean, chances are, she's still lurking and reading, and her accounts are still active. If she's here enough to read this and be upset by it, she's just as free to post and defend herself....
If, in a real-life conversation, someone insults everyone in the room with one of the worst insults they know, then turns around and covers their ears, is the community not allowed to discuss it?
I'm not sure. I can see it both ways.
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This is an interesting, unlooked-for tete-a-tete.
Hmm. . . did I even spell that right?
Anyway, I despise 'I miss Sew-and-So' threads. Mostly.
This one could be vastly improved if it had. . . oh, I dunno. . . Irami spouting narcissistic academiology, or if Mr. Squicky wrote a 350 page treatsie on the philosophies of internet longings, or if Cedrios came in pretending to be Leto, and Jettboy condemned us all to Hell (even the Mormons!), and David Bowles married Pat, and they got married in a dual ceremony by Belladona Orchid and Pooka.
That. Would. Be. Awesome.
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EDIT: Great, I type slowly, and get pre-empted by humor. ::shakes fist at Scott::
Yeah. I don't know the answer to that one, Poly. That's why I have tried to maintain a very careful demeanor in my posts about her in this thread.
But there's also, as one wolf-child to another, the fact that she insulted some of us before leaving and gave a rather generic and half-hearted apology for hurting feelings (in general)--but, pointedly, no retraction--leaving you, me, and Belle and perhaps others with an unexpiated sense of hurt. (Is that a real word? Did I use it correctly?) Especially, in my case at least, because I valued my friendship with Anne Kate quite sincerely and highly, even when I disagreed with her. (As I did, for instance, about Belle.)
(I kind of thought that the whole point of discussion was that you could disagree, talk and debate about those disagreements, and remain friends. Silly.)
Beyond that, since her manner of departure was orchestrated as a stab at me--at least, I perceive it this way, though it would not suprise me to see her friends insist to me that I am wrong--I can't help but take the things written in this thread quite personally.
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I do not know AK well enough to say how much she is like or unlike Rhapsody, but Rhapsody tended to adopt and ferociously protect those she felt needed love and protection.
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quote:I think she sees these things as an issue of strength - the strong protect the weak, where the weak are newbies, cats, and victims, and the strong are those that do the things that need protecting against. She makes perfect sense when you see her that way.
I think this is a fair characterization of how anne kate sees herself, and I would say that, in general, this trait of hers is one I admire.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Well, Icarus, while I may agree with your points on the standards of behavior in a community, Anne Kate's absence makes me very very sad. I don't blame you, or anybody for that matter, but it feels like the end of something I was only beginning to appreciate in the past year or so.
I never even really interacted with her that much, to be perfectly honest. I tend to stick to the political threads, and she never seemed that interested. It's just that, to me, she sort of personifies Hatrack. I know that sounds strange, but she has been here since the very beginning. I have been lurking for a long time, but she is one of the originals. She had such a charitable and kind spirit. The only thing that ever seemed to upset her was percieving others as being unkind (whether justly or not.) When I saw that she had left, I actually felt a sort of knot in the pit of my stomach, like you do in a book when a favorite character has died. I know it's her decision, and she has her own life to live, but my heavens. A member of this community who has been here seven years has just packed her bags and left.
That makes me sad.
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I hold out hope that she will return, because many others who leave do. But, in many ways, anne kate is not like "others," and so I reckon whe won't come back like a junkie to a fix, like some of use liken hatcrack, but if and when she either changes her mind--either about Hatrack's living up to her expectation, or about the value of her contribution in helping Hatrack to do so--or perceives Hatrack to have improved.
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"I love Anne Kate. We don't agree on everything, but to me she's like a china doll that's carefully draped herself in thorns."
Ouch. You may as well add "bless her heart" to the end of that sentence.
To be honest, I'm not comfortable having this conversation out here on the board. I'm sure people have done -- and will do -- their share of E-mailing about it, but there's always the chance that AKA would drop by herself, thinking, "Hey, I wonder if I'm missed," and then we'd all have to stand around looking sheepish and pretending like we were just talking about, say, this cousin we knew with the same name who looked a lot like her but wasn't the same person, really, we swear.
posted
And I bet she's not lurking, unless somebody specifically sent her a link, and even then it wouldn't surprise me if she delined to follow it. That's just how I perceive her.
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By the way, that post was not a reply to Tom. He posted while I was typing.
Honest.
No, seriously.
FWIW, I have not been involved in any e-mail gossip, so if it's going on, it's behind my back as well.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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I love cats. They're delicious. I missed the whole cat thing. Probably because I don't usually read threads about cats.
AK and Papa Moose used to symbolize for me the ideal of Hatrack as a community. But part of the point of a community is that it isn't about the individuals.
I was watching a telecourse about sociology last night, about the terms "group" and "category". I think they were saying the upper limit on a group is like 50 people. I guess a community can be a group of groups. I didn't get to watch the whole show. The talked about the difference between community cohesion in an agrarian system (we are a community because we are the same) and an industrial system (we are a community because we have different strengths and need each other).
They also talked about how two people have 1 relationships, but 3 have three and 5 have 24 or whatever. The more people in a group, the more complicated it is. I guess like the philotes or the strings etc. in OSC's books. I'm going to go start a book group now.
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Aka is amazingly fragile, and I have to admit that at times I have not treated her as such. I have never meant to hurt her, and have apologized every time that I have and we are friends, I should have paid closer to attention to the things that I said or did. I think everyone is guilty of not watching their words enough, myself included.
That and as far as people wanting to be cool, well everyone wants to be cool its simply whose definition you use. The way you like to be is of course "cool" to you. Now as far as what cool is in the mainstream/majority of people is much different. That and , I have to admit a lot of people do this and I'm not accusing anyone in Hatrack of this, many people have a habit of always trying to shine in the best of lights. We try and say the things that will make us look good to the majority, and I would think this is what Anne Kate means when she says hatrackers trying to be cool. Of course I could always be wrong, but those are my two cents.
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