posted
I have had stomach acid like this in a long time. I admit, the power of self delusion is strong. I wanted to believe that my relationship with my parents was improving and that with me nearly 26 they were finally starting to accept my adult status. Hasn't happened. Here's my story. I guess my family overall is extremely good at self delusion.
My grandfather sent me a check that I received on Monday. I called my mother last night to tell her that it arrived. (She's the one who actually does the mailing since he lives with them.)
Somehow asking my mother what Granddaddy would like for Christmas turned into open season on the way I live my life. I got yelled at for having $400 on my credit card, (which I didn't think was all that bad) and she asked me why I paid all the bills and Steve didn't contribute anything. This is laughable considering the near entirety of his paychecks goes to pay our housepayment and as a result I pay all of the day to day expenses from my paycheck. It comes out of his cause his is reliably on the 10th and 25th each month while my paycheck is biweekly and therefore jumps from having the income skewed towards the beginning to the ends of months at times. But I shouldn't have to justify this to her to begin with.
Then I got the "when are you getting married" bit, and I said I don't know weddings cost money, we might not. There's really no reason to... I was told that marriage licenses were cheap in Vegas, and that they would have paid for my wedding had I done things the "right" way. I said, yeah right, my dad used to say that if I got married it would be in wetsuits on the beach cause that would be cheapest. My mother goes, "Can't you tell it was a joke?" And the answer is (though it didn't really get included in the conversation with her) is that my parents are extremely cheap, and there was an always undertone of seriousness behind the joke. As a result I would *never* have asked them to pay a dime for my wedding regardless of whether it took place under circumstances they approved of or not.
Then we moved on to my education. (I was trying to change the subject to my possible MBA plans) I was talking with my little brother Stephen, who is majoring in Chemical Engineering the same as I did. He's taken things far slower and isn't burned out as a result. I then got yelled at for taking so many classes and burning myself out, when the whole idea of getting two degrees in engineering simultaneously was largely the idea of my father. And why I did internships instead of coming "home" for summers.
At this point I'd had it. I said Mom, "I love you, but you and I don't get along. We are too alike on some things and too different on others. We get along much better far away from each other. I've gotten along better with you in this past year than I have in a long time. But in person we just don't get along well." She tried to say we didn't argue that much and that even if we did argue that she and my little brother Nate argue too. I first recalled a specific argument we had, before I could drive, that became infamous because it involved of a giant glass of red coolade being spilled all over my books as my mother rounded a corner while we were yelling at each other. And then I said, I don't want to argue. If we lived near each other that's all we'd do because we don't see eye to eye on anything.
Somewhere in the whole mess, but not necessarily in the wedding context, I think more in the context of me being an engineer, she told me that my father would rather have had me been a waitress! (tone dripping with condescension to all waitresses) than living with Steve. This did hurt. Because for all she says she loves me, there are strings attached. I will never be accepted for who I am, unless I "repent". And I refuse to live the lifestyle they want me to. (I really don't think it has anything to do with spiritual repentance, even though they think that is the biggest issue. The issue is really control and the fact that they don't have it anymore.)
The conversation went back to financial matters which I figured I was safer on. I wasn't getting mad through this whole thing, nor was the conversation actualy an argument. I was sad that we were having this disscussion and that she's still hurt and angry. But there isn't a lot I can do about it at this point.
Anyway I got told that we should have refinanced our house (which we purchased just over a year and a half ago) down to a lower interest rate. She told me this once before too. Both times I've tried to explain that we don't have enough equity to refinance, and how a no-down payment loan, like we have means that you are going to have a higher interest rate. (It's at 6.25%, which really isn't bad.) I should have also mentioned that the value of houses out here, while still a solid increasing investment aren't skyrocketing at the obscene rates of CA. There, because the values have risen so steeply, you probably would have enough equity to refinance every year. Of course logic doesn't actually come into play here anyway. I didn't do what she wanted me to do because she thought I *should* and that's the bottom line.
She kept trying to go back to the marriage thing, and was breaking down in tears. I calmly continued discussing the intracies of Home Equity loans and 80-20 mortgages because I refused to go into the other conversation like she wanted me to. She'd say something, and I'd talk about home equity loans and say something else and I'd talk more about home equity loans.
Then she busted out with that it's my fault that my little brother Nate hates Christmas. I said I can see that, I've been miserable on a lot of Christmases. But apparently he hates Christmas because he misses me and I'm not there anymore and that they'd pay if I came out to see them.
She just doesn't get why I don't want to come out there. You'd think the current conversation we were having, might have given her some clues....
Anyway she was in tears and she handed the phone to my brother Nate.
posted
(yes that's only the first half) Second installment on my conversation with my brother Nate coming later today. I had to get that much out of my system now though.
*hugs* Oh sweetie, I'm sorry. You handled it admirably, and did everything right. I'm so sorry it was a sucky conversation. I think you're so wonderful - that's a terrible conversation and thing to deal with. I'm sorry. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
((AJ)) I'm so sorry things are going that way. It sounds like you're handling it really well though. Best of luck.
Posts: 957 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Stay strong, okay? The only immediate thing I can think of to suggest is to cut your mom out of all financial matters - it's none of her business how much money is on your credit cards.
As far as Steve goes, AJ you two have been in a committed relationship for quite awhile and it appears to be working well. I'm sorry your family can't see this. We're all here for you!
posted
$400 is NOT a lot to have on your cards. Your financial arrangements sound well-thought-out. I'm sorry your family is not more accepting of Steve.
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Wow! That is amazing! <<<<<<hugs>>>>>> I know how upsetting this must be for you. By the way, how did you turn out so sane, AJ? <laughs> I would think you were adopted if you didn't look so much like your brothers and parents.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
addendum to my conversation with my mother: One of the more interesting things mentioned is that my father is still waiting for Steve to come out and talk to him like I told them he would. She's mentioned this in previous conversations. Now, I have honestly no reccollection of telling them this. There was a point after we had graduated, and before we had jobs, that we were talking about going out there to visit. But I didn't think the purpose was for Steve to talk to my father. It would have been more to scope out the employment situation and see them for as long as I could tolerate. Having Steve with me, is the only way I could have handled being in that close of proximity with them for any length of time.
I don't know what to do about this misconception. I must have said something at some point that led them to this skewed, but I'm not sure what. The fact is, after what I went through with them and the guy I was seeing *before* Steve, I had vowed to keep any significant other away from my family as much as possible, because of the destructive controlling stuff that goes on. It isn't that Steve isn't willing to go through it with me. It is that it is senseless and unnecessary.
Honestly, now, it would be entertaining, because I know that all of the little jabs that they make that would be extremely detrimental to a budding relationship, won't make any difference because Steve and I have such a solid relationship, and because the jabs don't actually hurt Steve. When he has to deal with them, he sees them clearly for what they are and he actually thinks the are pretty pathetic. In private he's able to put amusing spins on them to me that helps alleviate my own pain over what my family is doing.
posted
Well in this case it is definitely easier to talk finances, than it is to discuss my lifestyle. She asked me what I was going to use the money from my grandfather. I told her I'd probably put $400 to pay my credit card and $400 towards our bedroom floor. (In reality I have a little more on my credit card, but still not an amount that is in anyway excessive, she assumed that it was the total amount on the card and I allowed it to sound like that.)
She asked why in the world I had allowed $400 on my credit card and I said "dog show entries" but in hindsight while that wasn't entirely it. The largest portion of it is still left over from July when I went to my friends wedding. But either way it doesn't matter. Obviously I'm irresponsible with money. AJ
Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
"It is that it is senseless and unnecessary. Honestly, now, it would be entertaining..."
AJ, as much as I think your parents are highly unreasonable about most things, in this case I do not think it's senseless and unnecessary of them to expect to meet the man with whom you've been living for several years. I'm sure there are control issues involved -- I know many traditionalist fathers who, for example, would like to have to give their "permission" to suitors in such situations -- but I think there's genuine love and concern there, too.
I think you've handled things with your family fairly well over the years, especially given some of their particular hang-ups. Still, I think meeting Steve is pretty much the least they could expect from you at this point -- and I'm not saying that just out of some expected entertainment value, either.
To a lot of fathers, the "new man" is just that: the man who will be taking care of you now that he isn't given the chance anymore. Whether or not this is a particularly outdated way of looking at things isn't the issue, insofar as that consideration isn't even likely to cross their conscious minds.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
With my dad, I started taking to telling them I was doing shocking things, and that made reality sound so much better.
Not have enough ready cash? That's because I spent $300 on a haircut, Dad. Not getting a real job (Boy Scouts doesn't count)? That's because I spend all my time watching Jane Austen movies and can't be bothered, Dad. Not batting my eyes at the accountants in my ward? That's because I'm bored and would be forced to run away or cut the brakes on his car, Daddy.
---
Our conversations got much better. For me, anyway. I worry sometimes that me being a bit of a bully isn't exactly a healthier situation that him being a bully, but something had to happen to shock us out of the pattern. I haven't done that for a while, but bring it back whenever I get criticized. On the happy side, I haven't been criticized in a while.
posted
Well, Anna, I know exactly how you feel, and I have to say that you handled that call 100 times better than I would have. Or have. The line about continuing to talk about home equity loans almost had me rolling. Good job staying kind and mature!
The thing about the holidays... does your mom have the same attachment to Hallmark traditions (you know, the traditions we're supposed to adore and hold sacred because the TV tells us to) that mine does? So that, no matter how miserable and mean and bitter every family gathering is, it's the END OF THE WORLD if her little girl isn't there to help decorate the tree? It's excruciating, explaining during every one of these blow-ups that , holiday or not, her refusal to stop treating me with contempt and disrespect makes going home the last thing I'd ever want to do.
And ooooh, that using other members of the family against you.... Both my mother and grandmother do exactly the same thing with my brother and grandfather, and it just kills me.
Someone should write a brilliant self-help book about women who grow up with psychotic grandmothers and their ill-raised daughters. And how they eventually break the cycle and become wonderful, kind-hearted human beings. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Tom, I understand your perspective. However you are assuming remotely reasonable people when you say that.
The question really wasn't Steve, it was me. It is only now, that *I* feel secure enough to handle the meeting. Steve probably could have dealt with it fine long ago. Like I said he could handle the barbs and jabs. Until recently however, I wouldn't have been able to handle the fact my family was throwing the horrible stuff they will at him.
In fact, we are planning to go out there in early June for my little brother's college graduation. There is already going to be a lot of conflict on the visit, because I am planning an itenerary that includes *not* staying overnight at my parents house and spending time with other friends and not my family the entire time.
More about this is coming in my post on the conversation with my little brother.
posted
*hug* hang in there. Parents are impressive stress-inducers. They can punch your buttons like no one else can.
They might see the marriage thing as a bit of defiance at this point. It's grown and neither of you want to back down from your positions. The problem is, it's your life, not hers.
Honestly, this sort of yuckiness is why my parents know so little about my life. They would disapprove of anything that wasn't directly related to medical school or finding a successful korean husband. We've reached a compromise in terms of visiting home, though. I usually go home twice a year, for about 4 days a piece. The last time I flew home, my dad and I got in an argument in the car ride from the airport. Maybe this time I'll make it a whole day with no arguments. Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Also Tom, I suspect that I may be more feminist in this regard than you are. I reject the notion that I need to be "taken care of" nearly completely. I am fully capable of living alone, without Steve. I *choose* to live with Steve because I like the guy. Yeah he's a better cook than I am, but I pay the bills cause I'm more anal retentive.
Yeah if one or the other of us is sick, we do attempt to make the person feel comfortable and each has taken the other to the ER once. Maybe our relationship is more eglitarian than I realized. We do support each other unconditionally, but that is still different than the patriarchial "taking care of" that you imply.
Yes, it may be what part my father has in mind, and maybe that is part of the reason it bothers me so much. However the "talk" with my father that I know Steve would be having, would be far more, if not entirely, a theological third degree grilling, and probably very little of the "do you love my daughter and value her for who she is" type of discussion.
posted
I think there are a few clear solutions here. First off, go home for Christmas but insist on going to Christmas day Church at a Unitarian Church. Second, find religion, Hinduism is good, or maybe Zen Buddhism, and send your family letters about how it has changed you're life and why they should join it right now or their dharma is leading them straight to the Hindu/Buddhist version of Hell (namely, being re-incarnated as a dung beatle).
posted
Oh, that would just be hilarious! Convert to LDS and start proselytizing them! Endlessly! Nitpicking their choices in the process!
I love it.
Heck, I could pretty easily become all the things that terrify my mother and grandmother.... I could be Jewish, liberal, and vegetarian, and be loudly overbearing about it every time we spoke. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Oh, yeah, Katie's strategy is great! When asked impertinent questions about your financial matters, marriage plans, and so on, respond with inventive or ridiculously exaggerated silliness.
posted
(((((Banna))))) Hang on, sweetie. You're a swell person, and you do what you can with your family. It must be very fcrustrating.
Posts: 3526 | Registered: Oct 2001
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I'm afraid I have no good advice...but plenty of hugs. Good luck--holidays are so rough when it comes to family sometimes.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
(((hugs))) I know what you're going through, I had a similar situation with my dad (except that I was getting married, and he didn't "give his permission", so he thought that should stop us?) My parents hate each other, and anything one is for, the other is usually against (and vice versa). Now I also have in-laws who have control issues. My life is very complicated. But I hope you figure out some way to stop the madness, or at least escape it without too much hurt.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Except that they'd never let you forget it, and you'd be getting questions from their church friends for the rest of your life...
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote: Oh, that would just be hilarious! Convert to LDS and start proselytizing them! Endlessly! Nitpicking their choices in the process! [Big Grin]
But you'd have to get married before you can do that, and I don't know if you want to risk doing anything that might please your mom. Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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"Also Tom, I suspect that I may be more feminist in this regard than you are."
Hey, I didn't say I agreed. I just said that one of the reasons meeting Steve would be so important to your father is that he's likely to be at least a little bit patriarchal about things. And since the meeting itself is unlikely to result in any actual physical harm, I think it's a "better sooner than later" thing, if only to indulge them a bit on a single issue that they're likely to be emotional about.
I'm not a big fan of digging in one's heels in all cases; they can't take a mile when you only give 'em an inch, even if they can whine endlessly about only getting an inch. In this case, I think meeting Steve is likely to be an inch more than a mile.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I agree with Space Opera that it is really none of your parents' business how you and Steve handle finances. You are both adults, both supporting yourselves with jobs. And if they think $400 is a high credit card balance, they should see our monthly balances!
You have been with Steve long enough for it to be considered a stable relationship. Whether or not you want to get married is your business, not your parents. I do agree with Tom that it is time you introduced Steve to the family, but you said you are planning to do that.
You handled yourself well in the phone conversation. I understand so well how aggravating that family stuff can be. Kudos for keeping your cool on the phone and answering questions with grace.
posted
Tom, I agree with Anna that you're assuming that she and Steve are dealing with rational, mature adults.
If you knew, for a fact (say you had a time machine!), that Anna and Steve's visit would be one big ball of misery for everyone involved, that it would only give her parents more ammunition to use against her for years down the road, that they would take the opportunity to whisper every cruel thing they could think of to try to either force Anna to leave him or otherwise fall back under their control... would you still think that it would be a good move on her part to go home for the holiday?
If getting together results in nothing but unhappiness for both parties, and indeed only fans the flames of resentment into a full-scale tire fire (est 1989).... what's the point? Why not let sleeping dogs lie, and let the instigators of the ill-will keep their misery to themselves?
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
"would you still think that it would be a good move on her part to go home for the holiday?"
I think there's a difference between a good move and a necessary move. I have done things that I knew with some surety would result in misery because familial duty demanded it of me.
IMO, introducing her father to the man with whom she intends to spend her life is one of those required behaviors. It's not unfair of her to impose restrictions and guidelines on that meeting, although such requests may easily (and rightly) be viewed as suspicious and/or uncharitable. But unless the familial contract itself has been previously broken in some way, I think an introduction is demanded -- to the point that refusing to make one is itself grounds for considering that contract broken.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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First of all, Nate is my youngest brother. We have always had a special bond with each other. I still miss him, moreso than my middle brother, because we spend so much time together. We did crazy projects like build a luxury iguana cage together and make a quilt together had fun doing them.
So he gets on the phone. I said, I'm sorry Mom is crying, I don't know what to do.
There were a couple of issues discussed, and they were kind of mixed together. The first one, is that he is pretty ticked I haven't come out there to see him. I didn't know this until now. I got a lecture on how he knows lots of other people who make a lot less money than I do and they still find time to see their families and how he's had to come out and visit me twice and there isn't any reciprocity. I pointed out that there is a visit being planned for our other brother's college graduation. And the two times they have come out to visit it's been rarely inconvienent for me: A "We're coming!" with little warning. And I've had to work during the days every time they've visited, except for having like Christmas off.
I also explained once again, that which I have bemoaned here as well. Even though I like my job, for the first two years I had a grand *total* of two weeks of vacation. Plus in the first year I spent almost a month of time out sick due to operations and mono. And our sick leave policy was revised shortly thereafter by HR to be extroardinarily stringent (not triggered by me, there were people who were abusing it without major medical isssues.)
Yes, I took a week this year and went to St. Louis for a dog show. (I got to see Dan_Raven too!) I could have spent that time in California I guess. However my plans for that week at the Cardigan Corgi National Specialty had been made two years in advance.
I explained, also, that a lot of people paid hourly are *allowed* to take more leave from their jobs, however they also take a cut in pay to do so because they aren't working as many hours. And as a salaried employee, that isn't an option. I said I'm an engineer. I work like Dad. Don't you remember how much Dad worked when we were little? You have to pay your dues before you get the vacation time like he has now. The fact is he's 6 years younger than me and really doesn't remember.
My Dad took *one* non weekend-only family vacation in my childhood. That was to Colorado Springs for two weeks to visit my grandparents. Nate said "But dad always took vacation for our 3-day swim meets, and he went to your dog shows!" Which did nothing but prove my point. The dog shows I went to with my father were *always* on a weekend within driving distance. The 3-day swim meets he started attending later, were not ones I was in, and he'd changed jobs and started working for the government in civil service in order to get the increased vacation time. He always had at least 2 weeks vacation at the non-government jobs he worked at, but most of the time he'd take those two weeks when he turned in his resignation notice and would actually start employment at his next job and thus get double paid for those two weeks. I'm sure it helped them out financially.
Nate also doesn't know yet what it's like to graduate from college and realize you have to start a life of your own from scratch, with little or no savings. It is possible he will never actually face this since he is the baby of the family. But he doesn't understand the paradigm of being fresh out of college and struggling to stabilize your finances either. I did finally get the point home to him about the fact that I work "like Dad" and that he really didn't understand the obligations involved. He also acknowledged that my mother really doesn't understand this either. (I knew she didn't, I think I tried this approach with her once and it fell on deaf ears.)
The third issue was the "spiritual" issue. He prefaced it, which I respect him for, with the fact that he still wants a relationship with me regardless of our disagreements in this area. Then he asked me if I believed in God. I said, oh, probably 80% of the time I do. Which of course just floored him that I could say that.
He told me that my mother cries every day because of me. And that my lifestyle constantly hurts him too, especially when he explains to his friends that I'm living with a guy. I said, "Well it isn't really any of their business is it? And why do you feel you have to explain this to your friends to begin with?" He said, because they care about me. "And they pray for you, you've got over 100 people praying that you'll come back to God."
Basically he said that he's worried he won't see me in Heaven and that I'm going to Hell instead. I said, why not let God worry about that? Somewhere in this conversation I did say that I could never be a conservative fundamentalist again, and that if I *was* still a Christian I was a liberal one and if I went back to church I'd likely be United Methodist. (dkw's testimony is literally one of the reasons I believe in God the 80% of the time I do.) We also discussed my parents. My father doesn't teach sunday school anymore because he feels he is disqualified as a spiritual leader because he's failed spiritually in his own house because I'm in "spiritual rebellion."
I told Nate, that my parents aren't responsible for me. I'm responsible for my own spiritual choices. I'm sorry I'm hurting them but that is the way it is. He said, well if you were sorry, you wouldn't be hurting them. And this is where we did make progress: I said, "Nate, do you honestly think I'm living my life the way I am to *deliberately* hurt them??" Once it was phrased that way, it suddenly put it more into perspective for him. He said, well I kind of thought so until you just told me otherwise.
Obviously he's gotten this line as a result of my parents. Basically, my parents think I've made all of my life choices in the last several years, to deliberately spite them and cause them the maximum amount of pain. I was rather flabbergasted at the utter selfishness their own perspective. It makes it extremely easy to blame me for everything that way. It is my fault my mother grieves for me every day, and that my Dad doesn't teach Sunday School. I suppressed the snarky urge to say "well why isn't God comforting them?" I don't, I *can't* believe in a God that makes his followers miserable like they are making themselves miserable over this. And that is what it comes down to.
The conversation with my brother was far better than that with my mother. I am sorry about the resentment he has for not seeing him, and it is probably somewhat justified, though I don't regret my own actions either. I had to cut him off because I was driving into the backwoods of Illinois to drop my dog Ciara off with the handler and lose reception. And I forgot to turn my cell phone off when I got there and so my battery ran down with it constantly "searching" for signal. It was a relief actually. They couldn't call me back and try to continue the discussion. I handled this conversation far, far better than I used to handle similar conversations, but I still couldn't take more last night.
posted
AnnaJo, I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. Sounds like Steve -- like you -- has a good head on his shoulders, and I know how well you two suit each other.
posted
Tom, as I said, now I feel far more ready to cope with the stressful situation that Steve meeting my parents will bring about. As I said, plans were already in the works to go out and visit them now that the timing feels appropriate. I agree that them getting to know him isn't unreasonable. However what their idea of "getting to know" entails is pretty extreme.
If could have been sure that even the possible "talk" between my father and Steve would have been conducted in a polite and respectful manner (to me, "polite and respectful" is my parents responsibility as part of any "familial contract") I'm sure this would have happened long ago.
AJ
As far as "familial contract" goes, I think they voided their end a long time ago by the way I was treated, long before Steve was on the radar. I was fighting with them even when I was leading their "approved" lifestyle. That lifestyle, which proclaims itself giving meaning and joy to one's life became increasingly hollow empty and meaningless and I felt more and more disenfranchised, as I realized there was no place for a woman like me, in that brand of Christianity. I either had to change fundamental aspects of my god-given personality (hide my intelligence in order to get a man and get married and submit to him in spiritual matters even if I was better at the brand of theology I was taught than any guy I knew) or gradually drift away once I realized that I was becoming a hypocrite because I was teaching childern things I didn't necessarily believe myself.
posted
Tom, I have to admit, I'm totally floored by your post. I'd love it if you explained further. Why is it so important for her father, specifically, to meet Steve? Has her mother already met Steve? And what is this "contract" that she's under? Is there a list of rules that she is bound by, having been born to them? If so, what do they have to do to "break" this contract? What does she have to do? What are the consequences of breaking it?
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
oh darling. I don't know what I'd do in your position.
Your decisions are not bad decisions. They're trying to manipulate and guilt you into living their lifestyle, but it's not worth giving up your sense of self, independence, and happiness.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Oh, Banna-bean, what a rotten family you've got to contend with. Even worse that they use religion as an excuse for their own selfishness and small-mindedness. *hugs*
I say, go visit them, but laugh loudly and pointedly directly into their faces every time a mention of you living situation comes up.
on a side note, do i remember that they live in PA? Another reason for you to go! Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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*thinks* Hobbes, right? Hobbes talked about the social contract?
Poly, the theory is that civilization is only possible when we operate under a social contract. In a family, the parents provide certain things, and the children in return provide certain things. Meeting the SO is one of the things a child should provide, and so unless the parents have broken their end of the bargain, it is not unreasonable to expect to meet him.
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<off topic>In my family, there IS no social contract anymore, except with my little brother. It was interesting - my dad and stepmother know it. When I told them I was getting married three weeks after I got home from my mission, my stepmother's response was "I guess we are lucky we were invited." I'm not excatly sure when it was broken, but it was broken before I came home from my mission, and I didn't completely realize it was broken until my brother got married, didn't invite me, and no one else had a problem with that. </off topic>
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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For me, anyway. I worry sometimes that me being a bit of a bully isn't exactly a healthier situation that him being a bully, but something had to happen to shock us out of the pattern. I haven't done that for a while, but bring it back whenever I get criticized. On the happy side, I haven't been criticized in a while. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
The line about continuing to talk about home equity loans almost had me rolling. Good job staying kind and mature! ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Both my mother and grandmother do exactly the same thing with my brother and grandfather, and it just kills me. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
) They'd have a heart attack if you become Mormon. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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