quote:I worry sometimes that me being a bit of a bully isn't exactly a healthier situation that him being a bully, but something had to happen to shock us out of the pattern.
Nah...what you did was prove you weren't bullyable (is that a word?), not that you were a bully. I love what you did! You weren't mean, you just refused to answer questions and suggestions that were none of his business and rather than be rude, you made it funny -- even if you didn't really think it was funny.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Leonide it is pschcyoGrandma that lives in PA. My parents live in CA. There is a reason why I split the difference and now live in the Chicago area. If I ever do come out that direction though I'm going to look you up!
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Anna, I want to stress that my statements aren't meant to be pointed criticisms of your approach; I think you're doing what can be expected of you, and I think you've handled things fairly well. I just wanted to make sure that you didn't think your parents' expectations of meeting Steve were silly or onerous or unreasonable -- because I don't think they are -- and wouldn't want you to bring that kind of attitude into such a meeting, since I believe it'd poison the atmosphere even farther. I don't think you will, though. I'm mainly explaining further for Poly's sake.
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"Is there a list of rules that she is bound by, having been born to them? If so, what do they have to do to 'break' this contract? What does she have to do? What are the consequences of breaking it?"
I think there are certain societal rules that you're bound to, simply by virtue of being born into that family, and part of not being a psychopath is being able to figure out what those rules are without having to have them laid out. They're not rules laid down by a specific family, either; they're not things like "all daughters of ours will be good Hindus." One of the most universal, as far as I can tell, is "when you marry or the equivalent, your family gets to meet the person you picked."
And, yes, the contract can be broken through neglect or hatred or abuse. And I'd imagine a lot of little things could add up to constitute such "breakage" -- but it normally would take a lot of little things, because the true consequence of such a broken contract is that you no longer think of the person in breach of contract as a member of your family. You don't think of them. You don't call them. You stop wasting effort on them. (Note that this can, in extreme cases, be reciprocal, and merely an acknowledgement of the status quo; a child who was neglected for years may find that, after decades, they're finally able to cut their neglectful parents out of their thoughts -- even though their parents did it years ago.)
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(response to Jeniwren and kat) The problem I have, unfortunately, is that I'm too genuine in a lot of ways. I'm not good at making preposterous stuff up. Particularly at thinking it up "on my feet" as it were. Reverting to cold logical finances, "math" as it were, was the only tactic I could think of at that stressful moment. And I was doing it pretty brutally. There was no flow in the conversation because I woudn't respond to her, I'd jump back to the home equity loan situation.
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You know Tom along with that, statment above, that "social contract breaking" is exactly what I would have done if I'd *deliberately* set out to hurt my parents. I would have cut them out completely. I cut them out to a point because I couldn't take the pain, but I have been trying to make overtures and keep the channels of communications open, rather than cut them off completely. I think they have truly been trying to keep the communication channels open as well, and that is the one healthy thing going on in all of this.
As it is, with Steve, I don't think I've truly "broken" the social contract. I may have deliberately delayed the fulfillment of it, until the contract can be on more favorable terms, but it hasn't been my intent to "break" it.
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Hmm. I know this doesn't solve things, but maybe it could be a bit of a help just to get through conversations. If I were you, I'd seriously make a list on paper of topics to switch to when mom pokes her feet into things that don't need to be discussed or responded to. That way you don't find yourself accidently retreating into another hot spot. I really am sorry about this; it almost makes me glad I don't speak to my parents at all. (((AJ)))
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Yeah I should space opera. The problem is I don't think there are any "safe" topics. The finances were kind of it for me this time. But if Mom wants to go there, she's going to get there no matter where we start from.
Earlier in the conversation we were discussing houseplants and whether her dog would eat one or not. Lol, funny thing is now with my current dogs I'm definitely much more of a disciplinarian. In my family, the dogs always got away with murder comparedt to the strictness of the children's upbringing (both of the dogs, Splash and this one, Crouton, get away with walking on top of the dining room table.) I actually have told my mom she should smack his little nose, that it's no different then disciplining a kid... but it doesn't get through! <Grin>
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The problem with using the loan as your conversational re-set is that it’s a topic she was giving you grief about, so it still comes across as you defending your life to her, which I think you want to avoid. Maybe you should try talking about the dogs, or the re-decorating project, or even the weather.
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"I may have deliberately delayed the fulfillment of it, until the contract can be on more favorable terms, but it hasn't been my intent to "break" it."
I believe you, and I'd never think that you'd mean to. But unless you've told that to your parents, they might not know that. It's highly unlikely, after all, that they're self-aware enough to know how offensive they've been, and so all they can see is what you've "done" to them. You know that you're just waiting for a more favorable time to hold up your end, but they're like birds on a wire about the whole thing because they just don't understand.
Believe it or not, I know exactly where you're coming from -- and I'm impressed with how well you're handling it. If you'd like, I'll give you a few more details on my own situation over E-mail.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Yes, but it was the *least* grief. I was going to get grief regardless. And I had logical numbers and cents that I could use as almost a mantra to keep me from responding emotionally.
Discussing something as inane as the weather, can and has turned into a discussion on how cheap airplane tickets are and that I should come see them... "So there is no fixed land."
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AJ, part of why I liked what kat did is that it is a technique recommended for kids dealing with bullies. Part of the technique is that they practice their responses so that in the stress of the moment, they have something to come back with. In the stress of the moment is not a good time to try to think up funny comebacks. I can't do that either. I'm guessing that kat gave some thought to how to counter some of what her dad routinely said to her and thought of possible comebacks, then practiced them mentally. It might have been somewhat subconscious for her.
You know your mom, so you probably have a good mental list of Things She Will Probably Criticize You For That Are Really None Of Her Business. You might try writing a list of what these are, then talk with your friends or post them up here so you can get suggestions for snappy comebacks. Not mean or outright rude comebacks, just stuff that sends the message that you aren't going to answer the question, take the suggestion, and you're not going to be cowed or bullied into it either.
That said, I think anyone who deals effectively with controlling parents who can't let their children grow up deserves serious kudos. You've done well.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Well, by those definitions, I'd have to say that the "contract" with all but my little brother was broken years ago. I believe they started it (naturally) by refusing to treat me as anything other than a malfunctioning piece of property, and my reaction was to gradually, painfully, and regretfully cut them out of my life. When I think of my grandmother now, it's with calm disinterest... did she move to Arizona? did she ever follow through on those threats to write me out of the will? does she ever think about me, or have I been tossed out of her memory? I'm torn about my mother. I haven't spoken with her since her guilt-trip after my wedding, and I don't look forward to speaking to her again, but I'll always pity her for being dealt such a lousy mother.
I really admire Anna's ability to continue to try to keep communication open. Part of me wishes I'd found a way to do that. I'm certainly not happy about how things have turned out with my family. But I do think I'm much happier than I was when I was crying myself to sleep after every phone call, or going catatonic for hours. And I like to think that my Mom is better off with me as a distant villain she can bitch about with her friends than she was when I was a constant reminder of how depressing she finds her own life.
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Tom I agree to a point, but at the same time, they wouldn't understand my "delaying till more favorable conditions occur" either. And explaining that, given what has happened already would likely make things worse rather than better. In otherwords the delayed fufillment technique won't actually work if they are aware of it.
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jeni, let me get a bit of distance on this last go round, and that sounds like an excellent idea.
whether the role playing will work, I'm not sure but it's definitely worth a try. I definitely think Mom has a radar for my vulnerable moments that I don't have for hers.
When Mark and I had been dating and living together for over a year, I acquiesced to demands to come home for Christmas, and bring him. I was nervous, obviously, Mark is Jewish, his birthday is Christmas Eve, and my family, especially my grandparents, do not think kindly of "those people". Or any people who aren't exactly like them, but anyhow...
Mom managed to pick a fight on the drive home from the airport, a new record. And it went downhill from there. Though Mark was supremely polite and understanding (he just doesn't have a mean bone in him), my family continued to pick fights and make sarcastic comments the entire trip. They'd compare him, to his face, to the good Christian girl my brother was dating (for all of 2 weeks, never mind he was a total player and I was in a committed relationship...), they asked him all sorts of embarrassing questions, make disparaging comments about him being vegetarian (poor guy only got to eat one dish at Christmas dinner), bring up and then attack his political beliefs... you name it. When we finally got out of there, my Mom made a point to write me and let me know that she was "revolted" that we had shared a bed, and that she could "no longer stand to go into that room".
The next year, after another year of them telling me I was an idiot and a selfish bitch, I let them know we were going to Mark's parents for the holidays. They cried and cajoled and guilt-tripped and berated me.
I just don't get it.
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FWIW, I consider my mother to have broken that contract in my case, and how Tom described is precisely how I think of her. I haven't spoken with her more than a couple of times since I got married (and she did not attend my wedding--her choice), and I don't think I've spoken with her at all since I've had kids. To the best of my knowledge, she does not know that I have kids, or where (as in, in what city) I live. I do not know if she is still alive, where she lives, or anything else about her life. I don't know of any easy way to contact her if I wanted to. As far as I am concerned, she is not family. That's what breaking the contract, from either end, entails. :-\
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BannaOJ, family sucks sometimes. I feel for you. I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I will tell you what worked for me.
My parents criticized absolutely every single thing I ever did in my entire life. They guilted me, and it worked for a long time. Finally, though, I realized that enough was enough. A five minute phone conversation with my mother would upset me for three weeks.
I set certain topics as absolutely off limits. I'd refuse to discuss them in any way. If I did discuss them, it wouldn't matter what I said, good or bad, they'd find a way to use it against me. So I refused to play. I'd either change the topic, not talk, or tell them I wasn't going to discuss that topic with them. I even went so far as to explain to them what appropriate conversation was and what kind of treatment I would accept from them and what treatment I would not.
They refused to change. I refused to give in. I refused to allow them to continue to damage me. I ended up having to write them off completely. Cut off all contact.
I'm not saying that you'll have to go as far as I did. But I am saying that it would probably do you some good to look at the situatin and carefully examine what you do get out of your relationship with them that's positive. And then deal with them - as much as possible - only on those terms. Refuse to discuss things that are none of their business that you know they'll use against you later. You're an adult, and you're entitled to live a happy life on your terms.
Having said that, I think you've done terric thus far. Good luck. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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A few things. Another good friend of mine, pointed out that this flareup has happened around the holidays and that maybe under it all, what they are trying to say is that they miss me, but this is the only way they can articulate it. Which I think has a point. The problem is that they want me back full-time to be "theirs". And that's not going to happen, even if Steve and I ever broke up.
Secondly, my family has a very different internal paradigm over forms of acceptable communication. I don't think that they realize how different it is. My mother spoke of "butting heads" with Nate. And said they've been fighting more recently, but that's just "what they do". I participated in this sort of activity when I lived at home, because it was how you survived. (Understand that during these yelling conflicts the language stays completely clean of obscenity though Bible verses are allowed as weapons.) But, I didn't like it.
In my life now, I have basically rejected that form of communication. Of course Steve and I have conflicts from time to time, but they are always resolved in a much more civilized manner. (I'm actually glad he doesn't let me get away with the bad behavior my family exhibits because it *always* escalates the conflict rather than solving anything.)
However this puts me at a fundamental disconnect from my family because I'm not playing by what they think the "rules" are. My idea of "home" and the home I've created, is not coming home after a day of work or school and arguing for the next 2-4 hours until bed. The home that I've made with Steve is a place of refuge and calmness. Well it might still be a mess <grin> but it is my refuge.
Thirdly, I think my mother is probably clinically depressed and needs medication. Though in order to get medicated she would have to admit crying daily over a daughter that is young, alive and in good health is pretty rediculous and the problem might partially lie with her. And that won't happen, unfortunately.
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Wow, how incredibly stressful that must have been growing up!
I made a rule for myself last year that I am never again going to sit still and listen to someone I love yelling at me. That I will just excuse myself and leave or hang up whenever that happens. <laughs> Once they raise their voices, there's nothing constructive that's happening anyway. It's only venting and name calling at that point. So I just made it a rule that talking to me requires polite and respectful discourse. It's such a great decision to have made. It's such a good feeling, to know that I don't have to endure that ever again.
Now, though, I'm trying to figure out how to maintain this and still make sure my mom is taken care of while she's sick. I can't really leave and stay gone a week or two now so easily, because I'm worried that she won't have food or clean clothes or bedding in the meantime. So I'm having to learn how never to mention anything about me to give her an opening.
My worst fear is that the dysfunctional habits of my own family are engrained in me so deeply that they will always pop out in times of highest stress. AJ, do you have this concern too? I wish I could learn better responses and somehow embed them deeply enough into my psyche that I could feel confident that the worst in me won't always reappear as if by instinct at the very times that matter most.
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I know exactly what you mean Tatiana. I don't know if I reflex back to that in times of stress. I think the other thing though is that the way my family deals with each other internally is completely different from they way they deal with others externally. And most of my stress in dealing with people is "external" stress.
Those who are near and dear to me now, like Steve and a couple of other really close friends, don't engage in the same behavior patterns to begin with, so the likelihood of seting me off and falling back into those patterns is fortunately very low. I also think from my perspective I normally didn't initiate the fights when I was with my parents. Most of the time it was self-defense for getting picked on about something again and again and again. It wasn't so much that I was seeking the conflict, as I was seeking away to alleviate the pain I was feeling as a result of their behaviors. So as long as I keep myself removed from their day-to-day life I won't fall back into it either.
Going back to CA this coming June is actually a really big step for me. It feels like the timing is right and I can handle it. But I'm still not completely sure. Hopefully Steve can get the vacation time off to come with me. I However there is some question and we won't know until after the first of the year. Vacations are strongly discouraged during summer at his job, because that is the height of the construction season. But if he tells them in January the odds are good he can get at least a week.
quote: One of the more interesting things mentioned is that my father is still waiting for Steve to come out and talk to him like I told them he would. She's mentioned this in previous conversations. Now, I have honestly no reccollection of telling them this.
My dad is a pro at misunderstanding. He regularly "forgets" what I said or "thought I meant" things that I never said. The last time he visited I told him he would have to get a hotel room next time because my family needs to be able to stick to our schedule. The guy's loaded so I didn't feel bad about it. Anyway, when I asked him what hotel he was staying in at Christmas he said, "Oh, somehow I got the impression that you didn't want me to stay in a hotel. Anyway, it's too late to get one now, so..." Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Sigh, Tom I've got quite a collection for you of late. I've comforted myself in the past that at least I haven't gotten any Chick tracts from Grandma even though I've come close. Well, in my christmas/birthday card, I was told that my formerly renegade uncle who is now 'saved' purchased several hundred of them...
quote:When we finally got out of there, my Mom made a point to write me and let me know that she was "revolted" that we had shared a bed, and that she could "no longer stand to go into that room".
If you shared a bed with someone you weren't married to under your parents' roof against their wishes, then your mother is perfectly entitled to be upset by that. I would be.
While I'm not excusing her other behavior, nor her choice of words, I certainly support her being upset by it. If you knew that would upset her, then it was petty and selfish of you to do it, while you were a guest in her home.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I'm not sure I'll ever truly understand the worldview of the fundamentalist evangelical. I consider myself a faithful, believing Christian and I can't even see how some evangelicals can claim to believe in the same God that I profess to believe in.
p.s. I somehow missed this post before, lurker extraordinaire though I may be. So I missed the opportunity to do this: ((AJ)) I also loved Megan's line:
quote: I'm afraid I have no good advice...but plenty of hugs
Those are words to live by.
Posts: 786 | Registered: Jun 2003
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I'm very sorry it has to be like that for you. That really does suck.
One comment I might put in a different light, of course it could have the poor connotations to it as well. But I always try to take statements in the best possible way.
She said she'd rather have you as a waitress than have you living your lifestyle. I think she was expressing her own priorities. Obedience to God has a higher priority in her life than career. She expressed it horribly, and I fear that some of the nobler aspect of her priorities were certainly lost in the concept that she probably conciders waitresses to be low class.
I think you are slowly learning this, but I think it is important to understand that she will never be the mother you needed before or want now. She will not get help for her mental state because she probably thinks it is a righteous state to be in, and not a signal of mental instability. I wish there were magic words that could open her eyes. You wish that more than I do, but there isn't.
Take care, you are handling it well. Take your comfort in Steve. It is fantastic you have such a great guy there.
Posts: 3495 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Wow, while I respect you a lot, I know we don't always see eye to eye. I realize we have drastically different morality standards. You have no idea how much that means to me coming from you specifically.
I know that I need to let go of things that I can not control. I'm doing my best to move on. However one of my little mental crutches "atleast the don't stoop to Jack Chick" was pulled out from under me. Now I've got to move to "at least they don't carry "God Hates Fags" signs.
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The problem with "at least they don'ts" is exactly what we've experienced here: often, those become "at least they don't yets."
It's probably better to try to justify their existences by looking at examples of positive and/or loving behavior from them, if any, than in trying to find examples of negative behavior in which they haven't yet participated. (If you can't come up with any examples of positive, loving behavior, that's another conversation.)
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I realize there are problems with "at least they haven'ts" yet at the same time when there isn't a lot of positive that I can find in the situation, it sometimes seems to be the most positive spin I can put on it.
With Grandma it's pretty hard since even most "kind" sentences usually have jabs in them unless they are discussing the weather or family news, and even those often are barbed. Of late, I've seriously considered telling them that I want nothing to do with them. But once the words are out it would cause even more chaos than already exists. My mother is already depressed enough. Maybe stirring the pot would make her get treatment, but I'm not willing to go there yet.
It's much easier to find positives with my parents, though I'm becoming increasingly worried about my mother. Talked to a friend of my mother's, X, who is also my friend last night. X is one of the few people that I trust that knows them and lives in CA. X said my mother is crying non-stop too. X is of my mother's generation and has children my age. She doesn't always agree with me and my decisions nor do I always agree with her but we can still communicate and see the others point.
So it was a bit of a shocker when X basically said that this was rediculous that my mother was still dragging this out after 2-3 years and needed to accept that she couldn't change things and move on. She was saying that maybe an alanon-type group would help. I'm not sure but it's an interesting idea. X is the one person who might be able to get away with telling my mother to get help so that my mother *might* listen. I don't know if she will or not.
I wish there was something I could actually do to help my mother. Life is too short to be as misrable as she sounds. The snarky side of me occasionally thinks "Why isn't her God comforting her?" But the part of me that does believe in God says that comfort can be found, she's just not choosing to accept it. And that's really the root of the problem at this point, and why I'm seriously wondering if she needs a therapist. The snarky side of me also wants me to tell her to grow up and get over herself already because this is a petulant display of childishness that she would have *never* let me get away with when she was raising me. But since I haven't figured out how to say any of that nicely I'm simply biting my tounge and not saying anything.
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Family's so funny around the holidays. As for breaking the family contract, can I break it with my father in law? He's been demanding for months now that we come home for Christmas. It's on a Saturday so we don't have an excuse this time. (I work at the bank, Chet works retail. We're working everything but Christmas Day. Deal. And we were there the weekend after, it's not like we blew him off.)
What made things complicated was that Mary and Al (Chet's mom and stepdad) suddenly got uninvited to visit Al's son's family for Christmas up here in Tally. My SIL left them a message on their answering machine asking them not to come because they'd decided to just do Christmas with the four of them. Classy, huh? The worst part is that it's almost guaranteed to be a blantant lie. SIL just doesn't like them. Why she wants to hang out with the guilt tripping control freaks instead of the happy hippies, I have no idea. I love Mary and Al.
So Monday we're trying to rearrange our plans for Friday. Then my grandmother calls. Don't I realize my mother is heart broken that Christy and I won't be there for Christmas? Christy's at boot camp and can't help it, but I should be there to support my mother. Now, my mom was practically dancing in the streets at not having to do anything for Thanksgiving this year for the first time ever. There's no way she had a problem with us showing up Christmas afternoon. But my Grandmother still refers to the year my mom did that as "the year we skipped Christmas." So I assured my Grandmother that we would see her that weekend. She lamented that we wouldn't get to see her before she left - on Monday.
Fortunately, I expect this sort of thing from her and find it somewhat amusing. But as I'm relating the story to Chet, he starts getting all pissed off and telling me how one of these days he's going to get in an argument with my Grandma and I'd better be prepared for it. Wha?
I finally decided it's transferance. He gets mad at his dad for being a control freak but doesn't want to be mad at him. So he gets mad at my Grandma for doing the same kinds of things. He's probably also a bit pissed that I don't let it bug me while he generally tries to keep daddy happy. So I assured him that Grandma is not an issue. I'm not placating her, we're still doing things the way we intended. I think he's ok with it, but we'll see this weekend.
Good luck, AJ, and all the Rackers. We must find a way to be happy - if only to spite our families. Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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*hugs AJ* I love you, sweetie. I think you are handling this wonderfully.
There's something so incredibly sad about realizing that your parents will never be the kind of parents you need and want them to be. It's very freeing (I've managed to do it only in the past year), but it's so sad. It's giving up, and it's necessary for your own mental health, but it does feel like there is something lost then.
On the other hand, my relationship with my dad has improved about fifty times ever since I gave up, yelled, and laid out the conditions for our continued talking. I HATED doing it - I don't approve of such bullying behavior - but it worked. Go figure. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I think I have given up in the area you are talking about. There is a vast difference between my mother and my grandmother and I've realized I've conflated the two in this thread.
My grandmother I'd given up on long ago, as far as ever having a relationship with her other than the obligatory Christmas present. I had a hard time dealing with the pain even after I'd techically given up. I couldn't make it not hurt anymore, though repeating the silliness and having other people see it for what it is, is one of my best coping mechanisms. It is still depressing when she reaches new lows though. In this latest note was also something saying that she doesn't have my phone number. I believe that to be untrue, since my mother gave it to her quite a while ago and it hasn't changed since last Christmas. She included her own phone number and I got the underlined 'Call us sometime' bit. Also asked if the coat she gave me last year for christmas fit because they still have the post office insurance documentation on it. I remember quite clearly thanking her for it over the phone *last* christmas and telling her it fit perfectly because it did. It's all a ploy to make me feel guilty enough to call.
I also got a Christmas card from one of my aunts, my mother's sister saying and I quote: 'I think you are wonderful (heartshape) Here's my phone number call me sometime.' Why? I just don't get it. We have nothing to talk about. (Actually there is one health issue that we appear to share, Reynaud's syndrome, which I guess I could ask her about sometime.) But, I highly doubt she actually wants a relationship with me on my terms. I'm extremely suspicous that she just wants to start talking to me so that she can try to lead me back to "righteousness" and make me feel guilty for "hurting my mother so".
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With my mother, I really *would* like a relationshp with her. But it will never be the relationship she wants. I can accept that it will never be the relationship that I would want, and try to work with what is, but she can't. To work with what *is* is basically acknowledging that she isn't going to change me and she can't do that. And therein lies the main problem.
I think she honestly thought she was "close" with me throughout my childhood and adolescence, when she wasn't at all. I mean she'd tell people how close we were all the time when I was growing up, and what was I going to do? Stand there and argue with her about it, in front of other people considering how much we argued anyway? I've told her plainly that as adults we clearly do not get along in person and have a better relationship from far away but I think the root of this does lie back to her earlier self-delusions, that I let go uncontested then cause it wasn't worth the fight. Plus she had the position of power in the relationship then, because I *wasn't* independent.
posted
I didn't know you have Reynaud's, AJ. One of my nieces has that. Does it bother you much? (I know degrees of affectedness vary a lot.)
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Well I haven't had an *official* diagnosis because it hasn't been worth it. But even out in CA I would have appendages get cold and turn white because the blood flow would stop which is a pretty good indication. And knowing it already *is* in my family as well. How much it affects me actually has a lot to do with my general health. If I'm completly healthy then it the blood flow shut off only happens if I ignore the fact I'm getting cold (like while sitting at the computer). In general my appendages are always cold.
If I do get chilled suddenly with even a few degree sudden temperature change. Steve has wittnesed my convulsive shivering attacks that happen. If I'm not in perfect health, though all symptomes become markedly more severe.
So overall pretty mild, I don't like it when even though I'm bundled up as much as I can and wearing gloves my hands hurt and ache when I walk outside. I can ignore the pain and generally my body functions. I know my Aunt has it much more severely but it escalated with her age as well. This is why I'm moving to a warmer climate in my 15-20 year plan.
posted
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense! Before she was diagnosed and my SIL learned how important it was to dress her in warm socks and mittens when it was so much as cool, it was a big problem -- even here in sunny SoCal! Now, it's just something that she has to keep in mind, and rarely a big deal. But that's largely because it rarely gets all that cold here.
The way life works though, she'll end up living somewhere cold when she grows up. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Wow, that's probably terrible for you right now. I don't know how cold it is down there, but the lows up here are around -11... And my parents haven't been keeping the heat on... :/
But enough small talk...
quote: But the part of me that does believe in God says that comfort can be found, she's just not choosing to accept it.
From what I know of the situation, I totally agree with this statement. IMO, regardless of what you believe about God, it's apparent that your mother is dragging this out. I can understand her feeling pain over what she considers a betrayal, but there comes a point at which one should move on, at least somewhat.
The fact that you have a plan about your finances, and the type of person that you are makes me confident that you know what you're doing. But I can tell you, as a person that doesn't have a very good abstract grasp of finance, that it's sometimes hard for people who don't deal with that kind of thing (which it seems like your mother would be, considering the POV she's advocating.) to understand it.
As for taking Steve to meet them, it seems like it would be all about comfort level. Though I can understand their wanting to meet him, I wouldn't consider it some sort of inalienable right. If it would cause more hurt than help for all involved, I don't advise it. But if you think that they'd behave the same way even now, maybe somehow making it clear to them that they aren't going to meet him unless they're willing to be civil could be in order. They'll have to weigh their desire to meet him against their desire to make things uncomfortable for you. But even that, considering the control aspect of the matter, might not help.
I guess what it all comes down to is that I don't know what the best path should be. But you have my support, for what it's worth. (((((AJ))))) also, (((((Steve)))))
I also wanted to apologize to you, now that I have a chance, Anna. I remember making some unthinking comments or jokes about your family situation while we were all at Kamacon that I don't think you thought were very funny. I still feel bad about it, and I wanted you to know that I didn't mean to hurt or offend you. It's really hard for me to tell where the line is in situations like this, since I am emotionally divorced from them. I have the same problems with my other friends, and I know them a lot better. I'm still sorry about that, I hope you don't think too much worse of me because of it. :/
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Ryuko, you never said anything that hurt my feelings. I'm scratching my head to remember what you said and I honestly can't even remember the incident you are talking about.
I don't take offense easily, and I highly doubt you said anything anywhere near that line, much less over, but thank you for being so compassionate and concerned!
*hugs*
Hearing other people say my family is nuts actually helps me. Because if other rational people think this is rediculous then it means I'm *not* the crazy one (or as crazy <grin>), no matter how much they try to tell me I am.
posted
I love them! I had them hanging up until my OCD roommate was adjusting them and the curtain rod holder fell down. We still haven't found it... :/ Hehehe. Maybe I should ask Res Life for a replacement.
edit: Also, I'm glad you weren't offended. I'm a little bit embarrassed that I was still all worried about it, though.. >_>;;
And you can't live your life for your mother, much less lead her life for her. Sometimes people in the midst of terrible situations aren't there for the change. Sometimes they just want you to bear witness.
Hard on you, though, especially with your practical mindset. I think you're a real trouper for hanging in there.
[ December 23, 2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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I'm mainly explaining further for Poly's sake.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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It's all a ploy to make me feel guilty enough to call.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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