posted
In this week's review column, after an excellent and enlightening review of The Chronicles of Narnia, OSC put in a segment about why he likes to use cell phones, among other things, while driving.
I don't want to be makin' with the OSC bashing, but I do think this is one of those rare subjects with flamingly opposed opinions on either side that I personally have never seen debated here, so I think it calls for a bit of discussion.
First off, I remember several years ago leafing through the Car Talk website and seeing an entire section devoted to the debate. These people seemed to be saying exactly what I'd always thought, and the reasoning and depth of coverage fascinated me. If you'd like to see what I'm talking about, here's the link:
Of course I know loads of people who love to talk on the phone while driving, but I'd never seen anyone defend the opposite position as firmly as OSC did this week. In case you're reading this after it hits the archives, you can find his opinion here:
I'll just end the opening post now and put my own thoughts into a future post to keep this one less cluttered. I'd really like to hear other peoples' opinions about this, though. Do you think talking on a cell phone is okay, or do you think it's wrong? For what reasons? Do you think there should be legislation against it? Do you talk on the phone when you drive? What would it take to get you to change your opinion, or your habits?
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't drive while using a cell phone in most situations because I notice that it degrades my attention and driving skill to a point where I'm distinctly uncomfortable with it.
I find that I can't attend to the conversation and driving at the same time to a sufficient extent to be truly good at either.
I'm probably a bit better at talking to a real live person in the car with me than I am over a cell phone. In part because I don't have to scrunch the live person into my ear using my shoulder and/or I don't have to fumble with their buttons while driving.
But I notice a degradation in driving performance even if I'm using a hand's free cell phone or having a live conversation with a human right there in the car with me.
I would probably be okay driving while talking on the phone on long stretches of open highway in light to moderate traffic. But in other situations, it's just not within my comfort zone as a driver.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote: Does talking on a cellphone make you drive less safely? I'll take the cellphone over the food that they keep reaching for, and I dare you to tell me that the cellphone makes a driver less aware than carrying a vanful of whiny children.
So we can both agree that you shouldn't eat while driving. Does that make it okay to use a cell phone? And although there probably aren't any studies comparing cell phone use to driving with screaming kids, there are several that compare it to driving while legally intoxicated. In every one of those studies I've ever seen (and I have seen a few) the dude with the beer drives as well as, or better than, the dude with the phone. Furthermore, a 70-year-old without a phone will statistically out-perform a 20-year-old with a phone.
You can find these studies and their results in the "Scientific Evidence" section of the Car Talk link. Or, if you think that they cherry-picked their studies, you can do your own search at PubMed. It's all about the same.
There are a few interesting things you'll notice while reading these studies. Of course, there's the results that I've already alluded to. But there's more.
First off, driving with a hands-free phone has no significant improvement over driving with a handheld phone.
Second, there are various standards by which performance is reduced, some of which increase accidents, and some of which just decrease the ability to function in traffic. Yes, slowing up traffic isn't as dramatic a result as killing a busload of first-graders. But traffic is a huge problem in most cities, and if you can find a moral justification for your ordinary casual conversation slowing up my commute, I'd like to hear it.
Just about every time I drive home from work I get stuck behind at least one person who is driving 10-15 mph below the speed limit with no one in front of them impeding their progress. I always mutter something to myself about hanging up and driving, and when I finally get a chance to pass and take a look at them, I almost always turn out to be right.
quote:Originally posted by Bob_Scopatz: But I notice a degradation in driving performance even if I'm using a hand's free cell phone or having a live conversation with a human right there in the car with me.
I'm the same way. One of the standard responses to the anti-cell phone argument is, "well, what's the difference between talking on the phone and talking to someone in the car with you." There are several good responses to this, but I do often find myself driving in tricky traffic telling my passengers to cram a sock in it for a minute. Statistically it is safer if the person is in the car with you, but a distraction is a distraction no matter where it's coming from.
posted
So long as the driver has a hands free, and voice dialing device, I have no problem with people talking on their phones and driving at the same time. But when they stop to dial while driving, and need a hand to hold it, I don't see how you can argue that they are just as alert and ready as someone who has both hands on the wheel, or at least both hands ready, and is focusing primarily on the road.
Is he trying to make the point that Cell phones are good against some crazed minority that thinks they aren't, or is he just making a random shout out to cell phones? If it's a shout out, more power to him, but the timing is a little random. That's like him writing an article on how much he loves laptops and how handy they are.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I smoke while driving. I also talk on my cellphone while driving. Smoking does far worse things to my driving, in my opinion. One columnist I read a long time ago said something like this, "If I needed both hands for driving and I was on a cellphone, I could easily drop the cellphone and use both hands. People who drink coffee cannot say/do this." It's the same with cigarettes. And yet there is no legal move to stop people from eating or smoking while driving.
Posts: 1751 | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't have the attention for it. That's me personally. I'm all for people having cell phones in the car with them. I have an earpiece for emergencies or when I'm checking in with my folks during a long ride from college to home for holidays. They like to know where I'm at every other hour in case I hit traffic or an accident. These conversations never last for more than 5 minutes though.
So yeah, I think its personal and based on experience and driving style. I've only had my license for two years so I avoid food, drink, or cell phones when I'm driving. I need both my hands and my attention at the wheel. I don't even like to chat much while I'm driving because driving into second nature to me yet and there's still alot I have to think about, especially driving in areas that I don't know well.
Its not a general complaint but I think cell phones make bad drivers worse. I've seen people driving dangerously above the speed limit, weaving in and out of traffic with the wheel in one hand and the phone in the other. I've seen people blocking traffic because they're driving 20 or more miles below the speed limit while on the phone. I've been pushed OFF the road more than once by soccer moms chatting on their cell phones in their big SUVS who didn't "see me" in my little Corolla. Maybe if they'd stop talking to so-and-so on the other line they might have thought to check their mirrors.
I don't see how a cell phone can make a person a better driver so at best it won't affect your performance though there's a good chance it'll make it worse.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
The amount of attention that driving demands varies, for me, depending on the conditions. If there is heavy traffic, if I have to do a lot of merging, if weather or visibility are bad, if I'm in unfamiliar territory and have to watch to avoid missing turns, etc, then it demands too much of my attention for me to comfortably talk on the phone — or at particularly bad times, even talk to a person in the car with me — while doing it.
When I'm just cruising down the highway for half an hour, or following an easy route that I follow every day in light traffic, then it's no big deal, and I talk.
Talking on a cell isn't any worse than talking to someone in the car with you under easy driving conditions. The problem is that, when you're talking to someone who is with you in the car, and the driving suddenly becomes more hectic, they are just as involved in the driving experience as you are, and will expect the conversation to drop out, pause, or derail as the situation on the road changes.
However, when you are talking to someone on a cell phone who is not in the car with you (and for heaven's sake, that is the only kind of person you should be talking to on a cell phone, unless you're weird), you typically feel a social obligation to carry on the conversation as though you were lounging on a couch or something. Long pauses, interruptions, and derailments seem rude when the other person is not involved in the driving experience with you, so you actually end up splitting off some of your attention to maintain the illusion of non-driving while driving.
If the driving gets hectic while you're in the middle of this kind of conversation, that's when it gets dangerous.
Posts: 1907 | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
OSC also mentioned annoying social cellphone faux pas'
This is the worst part of the phenomenon. I go over to friends' places these days, and if their cell phone rings, they will answer it, even when they won't answer the house line. I have particularly rude friends who answer and then talk at length or have a personal conversation while they are meant to be entertaining me or a group at their home.
Then there's restaurants. I have a strict personal policy, its tough but fair. If I go on a date, and the girl answers the phone and it isn't either her parents, or an emergency, she has under one minute to either beg out of the conversation or wrap things up. Then I say I have to leave, its not working out. If I go out with friends, its one minute, then I tell them to please get off the phone, they're out with me.
This is not as mean or awkward as it sounds, it almost never comes to that. But if it does, I am firm and fair. Just because you have a phone, doesn't mean your required to answer, your free not to
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
It's the same with call waiting. If I'm in a conversation with someone and their call waiting goes off, if they take longer than 30 seconds, I'll hang up. I have better things to do with my time. If someone calls me while I'm already on the phone, I'll only answer it long enough to find out who it is and tell them I'll call them back.
If it requires more attention - it's an emergency, for example - I'll switch to the other line, briefly explain, then switch back. To do anything else is, in my opinion, rude.
Back to the car and cell phone thing - I'm not universally against using cell phones in cars. If it's a hands-free set, and traffic doesn't require attention (ie not turning left, not merging into another lane, not in crazy stop and go traffic), then I'll use it with the caveat that I have no problem ignoring the phone conversation when I need to. But then, I usually told people I was in traffic, so it might happen. If they know, they're usually pretty understanding about it.
I only ever had one woman who got incensed because I chose to ignore her while I was turning left. But then, she was a cow with no manners anyway. And I quit working for her because of her total lack of manners. "You're fired!" Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
It varies for me, as most people have said. Generally, I'll answer my phone if it's called which isn't as big a problem as it sounds, I don't get all that many calls. If someone's in the car with me I always have them answer it. I only call people under two circumstances: If I'm lost, this generally isn't safe, because I get really upset when I'm lost, but I think the problem is me being upset more than me being on the phone. Or else if I'm afraid I'll go to sleep. I drive home through 2.5 hours of cornfields about every 3 weeks, and I can't drive it at night, so pulling over to the side of the road and taking a nap when I'm tired isn't really an option. In those cases it's really much safer for me to be on the phone then nodding off. I don't need to often, but I don't let debates over the relative morality of cell phones stop me when I do.
I have no problems telling people I have to go when I'm talking to them when driving, though. I just say, "I'm sorry, I really have to go," and drop the phone, people always understand.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by dean: I smoke while driving. I also talk on my cellphone while driving. Smoking does far worse things to my driving, in my opinion.
So as long as you can think of things that are worse, it's okay? I could use all kinds of hyperbolic analogies here, but just to keep this from getting shrill, let me say the following: It seems to me that even if that's the case (and it may not be), it doesn't make talking on the phone right, it makes smoking wrong.
quote:Originally posted by dean: One columnist I read a long time ago said something like this, "If I needed both hands for driving and I was on a cellphone, I could easily drop the cellphone and use both hands. People who drink coffee cannot say/do this."
#1: See Above
#2: As has been mentioned, this argument only works if it's the hands that affect your driving. However studies have consistently shown that people on hands-free sets are just as impaired as people holding their phones, so being willing to drop the phone wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference.
Any of the rest of you who said it's okay if you're using hands-free phones, cut-and-paste. Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
One other thing, for any of you who said that it's not okay in crazy traffic but it is okay if driving is easy. Consider this:
Surprises can happen at any point on the road, and if you're impaired, you're impaired. It's not nearly as easy to transition from talking to not-talking as many people would think, and even if it is, accidents can happen before you have a chance to make that decision. So whenever you're making those arguments, if you want to see if they make sense, replace "talking on the phone" with "drunk."
For example, if someone slammed into your car or your bike and they got out noticably intoxicated, which of the following arguments would make you think it's okay:
I was only going to be on the road for a couple minutes.
Traffic is light.
It's not like I was going to be merging or turning left.
I've driven this road a million times and I know it backwards and forwards.
All I was doing was straight highway driving. You don't think I'd have driven like this in town, do you?
Hey, at least I wasn't trying to eat while I was driving.
Yes, it's easier to drop the phone than it is to stop being drunk. But neither of those is a seamless, instantaneous transition, and accidents can happen before you have a chance to do either. Which of those accidents do you think your conversation is worth being responsible for?
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged |
I know it sounds like I'm just speaking in unrealistic worst-case-scenarios to make a point. But bad things really do happen. If you want to hear some stories that cover the spectrum from hilarious to horrifying, check this out. (and click the hard-to-see link at the bottom to get to the next page... some of the best stories are on subsequent pages.)
If you want to read something that will absolutely break your heart, go here. I hate to seem like I'm getting emotionally manipulative, but it's well worth reading.
Several years ago I got into a car accident that was my fault. I wasn't on the phone, but I was distracted and I T-boned someone at about 35 mph. Fortunately no one was hurt; I had my seatbelt on, and they had an old Caddie that was built like a tank. But being in a profession where I see people come in years after car accidents to get medication to control chronic pain, I still get flashbacks to what I did, and I feel an incredible amount of remorse to this day just for what might have happened.
I can't imagine losing a child. And I can't imagine making someone else lose a child, especially when I could have prevented it. This is an interesting debate which has been handled well on all sides so far, but it's important to keep in mind that there are actually tangible real-world consequences to its outcome.
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Life has its risks. You have to weigh them against the benefits.
We first got a cellphone back in the days when you mounted them in your car. Within a few weeks of getting it, having a cellphone saved our child's life. We left the kids with a babysitter to watch Mark Russell speak at UNC-G, but just as we were arriving, the sitter called. It seemed that our youngest at the time, who was frail of body anyway, was sick, running a fever. The sitter's intention had been to wait till we got home a couple of hours later. But since our oldest child knew our carphone number, the sitter called.
We being the key word. Having the cell phone helped. Having a passenger in the car saved having to take eyes off the road and potentially cause a fatal accident.
------
Talking on the phone, even hands-free, is a totally unnecessary risk. Lives are at stake. This is not a joke. Pull over. You are not the exception. Yes, I'm talking to you*. Does someone have to die for you to realize this?
*you=all you insane people who drive while talking.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I drive while talking all the time. It helps sometimes, especially when I'm going to be driving for a while. It actually helps keep me more alert. I have a tendency to daydream when I don't have something actively holding my attention, and trees and cow pastures alongside an unending stretch of highway just don't cut it. I really don't feel as though I'm endangering anyone. I also eat in the car soemtimes. I've applied makeup while driving in the past, but only while at a red light. To me, that takes a lot more concentration (not to mention focus of my visual faculties) than eating or cell phones. Well, mostly because it takes two hands.
posted
So it keeps you more alert and makes you less alert. Seems like a wash to me. Get more sleep. Open the windows. Turn up the radio.
Seriously, this bugs me even more than people who think they can drive okay drunk. Because it's legal. When you finally face the consequences, you're pacing around my car waiting for the police to come write up a report for the insurance company. Or in the hospital. Or dead.
And the last thing we need is a dead Pearce. Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by pH: I drive while talking all the time. It helps sometimes, especially when I'm going to be driving for a while. It actually helps keep me more alert.
I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but I knew a chronic drunk driver once. Although he fortunately didn't ever kill anyone, he did get three tickets for it (after hundreds of instances) and went to jail. Even after his third ticket when his license was suspended and he was awaiting the court date that would eventually send him to the can, he'd still frequently go get sauced at the local watering hole and then drive home.
He had several ways of justifying this to himself, but one of them was that he thought that if he was just intoxicated enough, it actually helped him drive better. And nothing anyone could say would convince him otherwise.
The point is, I'm with Frisco. I know a lot of people who think they're special. They have a special brain or they drive under special circumstances. But there's actually been a lot of research done on this, and the result is, they're wrong. And if they can't drive safely without either being drunk or being on the cell phone, perhaps they shouldn't be driving.
I think that people who talk and drive are, for the most part, decent people. Even the people who end up causing horrifying accidents probably aren't malicious jerks. (Heck, even the woman in the letter I posted earlier admits that she used to drive while talking until she had to watch her daughter die in front of her.) These people just take unnecessary risks for various seemingly justifiable reasons. And these risks can have disasterous consequences the likes of which I wouldn't wish on anyone here.
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I will talk on the cell phone and drive. And nosh, fiddle with the car stereo, belt out tunes, hold conversations with imaginary passengers. But when conditions are "white knuckle", I do nothing but drive with deep attention. No radio, no one allowed to talk in the car, both hands gripping the wheel. But these situations are not typical, and such white knuckle deep attention is difficult to maintain for long periods without becoming exhausting.
For standard driving conditions, I have no problem with it.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Having personally been almost run off the road many times by people talking on their phones and not paying a damn bit of attention to the traffic around them, I'm gonna weigh in on the side of not talking on the phone while driving. It's just dangerous for the vast majority of people.
The other situations (in which people are just rude)--well, that's just it. It's rude, not illegal. I will continue to be disgusted by people who talking loudly on their phones in restaurants, movie theaters, etc., in the same way that I'd be disgusted by someone yelling and screaming in those same situations. Kat posted something a while back about being aware of your surroundings as an important part of adulthood. In that spirit, I think people who engage in rude behavior as described above are behaving immaturely. Illegal? No. Obnoxious? Abso-freakin'-lutely.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
On the social (and work) side of things, a cell phone is an indespensible part of my life. I'm on the road about 50% of the time. Calling the office or home from hotels or payphones is not only too expensive, but vastly inconvenient. And it is only one way. If someone needs to reach me, they don't have to wait until I call in.
It makes work a lot more efficient. With the right calling plan, it also makes calling loved ones a lot more affordable too (free in-network calls are our friends).
Because the cell phone is an appendage, I have gotten used to turning it off, or to silent mode in situations where a cell phone would be annoying to others.
Holding a conversation in a public place -- it depends on the place. If I'm in a restaurant, I leave the table and go someplace where I won't disturb others. Unless it's a McDonalds or something, or I'm out with just one person (in which case it seems more rude to leave them alone). Typically, I just try to get off the phone as quickly as possible, and I'll even use caller ID to screen calls. Taking those from home, the office and clients, but not others.
If I'm in an airport or something, sitting alone, hey, the place is practically MADE for cell phone usage. I can catch up on work while I wait for them to decide that it's time to herd us onto the plane.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
First, I am not one to gab on the cell phone forever. I like my calls short and to the point. That said, I do not mind other people talking on them when I'm around. I have the same feeling about it as when people around me are having conversations with folk who are actually in the room.
The hands-free things with that little bud that fits into the ear, however. I have mistaken folk talking on their cell phones with folk who are mentally ill. I'm in the supermarket and there is some guy talking to himself in front of the dairy case: "There's so many kinds of yogurt. The big containers. The small ones. What should I get? Nonfat? Lowfat? I don't know, the list just said 'yogurt'." I'm cutting a wide berth around this guy before I realize that he is talking on the phone to his wife, begging for guidance.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
Speaking of the social aspect, that reminds me of a pet peeve that hasn't been mentioned here. I really hate it when people go through grocery store lines or fast food counters or ticket windows or the like, and can't be bothered to get off the phone to communicate with the person who is helping them. Yes, the person that is helping you is doing a job and getting paid. But they're also a human being who deserves a little more respect than having orders barked at them mid-conversation.
I've spent my fair share of time working in a retail pharmacy, and I refuse to help people until they get off their phone. Of course, I have some sort of professional justification for that, since I have certain legal obligations that I need a person's undivided attention to make sure I've fulfilled. But even if that weren't the case, I think the very least you can do for someone who is trying to help you is give them a smile, a thank-you, and 30 seconds of your valuable time to acknowledge that they too are, in fact, human beings.
Just my opinion, though.
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I get plenty enough attention, and I don't mind if it is divided or undivided. Sometimes it just doesn't matter.
However, if you go through your life getting annoyed about all these petty things, and letting other people just burn you up, you are going to spend great huge chunks of your life ticked off. And what is the point of that?
Just let it go, love all the people and their foolish ways, and when something happens that would make you say "That just burns me up", say instead "That just cracks me up". Then you will go through your days happy and full of joy instead of ticked off all the time.
Try it. You'll like it.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Totally agree with you Speed about people that go through grocery lines or pharmacy lines talking on their phones and demanding attention from the other person when they them selves can not have the disency to hang up and be respectful to the other person. I worked in retail pharmacy for 5 years and during these years of working with the public you learn how to handle certain situations and how to handle certain types of people, but I never learned how to handle people on cell phones. I made sure that they knew that I was not helping them because they were not ready to be helped so i would always skip them and help the next person in line. I made it a point to do that every single time. Without fail every single time that I did that i had customers upset at me. You need to understand I am excellent at customer service and anyone who knows me will agree to that, but I have no tolerence for people who bluntly disrespect me. I think that they are uneducated (it doesn't matter how many years of school they have gone through)and rude and I feel sorry for them. I make it a point to have my cell phone on silence whenever in public so that I don't have to disturb anyone. I was at the library studing in a quiet area part of the library and some guys phone rings, we all heard and he answered the phone while sitting at the desk. I HAVE NO PATIENCE FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO RESPECT FOR OTHERS.
Posts: 69 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Tante good point, I like to go through life being positive and I don't normally dwell on negative things, but you obviously have never worked customer service. If you had you would never have written what you just did. I think that you should try working in customer service areas and then you will understand why people are I think you used "burn up" I use "ticked off" when that happens. Posts: 69 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have worked in retail, and as a front desk clerk, but I also think that working as a home care nurse counts as dealing with the public and customer service.
It is a conscious decision to laugh off people's dopey behavior. I just got tired of feeling upset at petty things all day. If it can be shrugged off rather than let under my skin, that's for me.
Sometimes I even get to laugh off the big stuff, too. Dad is behaving badly, philandering, cheating on his mistress with another woman? That guy! When will he ever learn? Just cracks me up.
This attitude makes about as much difference as all the hand-wringing in the world, so why wear out my hands?
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I always apologize both to the person on the phone and the person behind the counter if I'm on the phone when I get to the front of the line, and I try to avoid it. However, I really don't care if someone I'm helping at this customer service job or the one I had right before this one is talking on the phone. In terms of showing disrespect, the phone is way, way down the list. For example, death threats, yelling, threatening to go to other places that provide the same service, are all much more unpleasant than someone having a conversation on their phone. I don't even find the phone particularly annoying.
Posts: 1751 | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
When I was working as a computer lab consultant, people would constantly walk up to me and want help, but could not be bothered to get off their phones to even ask me the question. In order to get the complete question and provide a complete answer, I had to have their attention. It got to the point where I would say, "I'll wait until your call is finished," and then turn back to my computer until they were done.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Frisco, I never said that it makes me both more alert and less alert. YOU said it makes me less alert. I can understand that in city traffic. Stop-and-go type situations. But when it comes to a twenty-hour drive? Give me the cell phone.
If I could afford it, I'd do all my in-the-car talking on my car's cell phone, which is the coolest thing on the face of the earth. It's wired in with OnStar. You speak the numbers, and it dials, and then the conversation comes in through the car's speakers. So whenever you talk to someone, it sounds like the person is ALL AROUND YOU.
As for conversations in public places, it depends on the place. I don't answer my phone at all if I'm having lunch or dinner with someone. If I'm there by myself, I'll sometimes pick it up and talk quietly. If I'm at a store and someone calls though, I generally hang up before I get to the chashier.
posted
I agree that people who can't get off the phone to receive help or give help are VERY annoying.
However, here is something I have never understood. I don't know why I get so annoyed if someone is on a cell phone in line with me at the movies.
2 people talking doesn't bother me, so why is one so offensive? It shouldn't be. Maybe I am just annoyed I can't eavesdrop on the other line.
I accept the data that says cell phones in cars are dangerous. Can someone help me understand why they are more dangerous then talking to a passenger?
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I try not to have too many conversations while waiting in lines for movies or something because I'm sure only hearing my side of the conversation sounds really, really weird.
posted
I came home last night and found a vehicle parked in my private parking space. I knocked on the other doors in my building with lights on and asked if anyone knew whose vehicle it was (no one did), and when I went back out there was a guy standing next to the vehicle talking on a cell phone.
I asked if this was his vehicle, and when he said it was, I asked him--very politely--if he could move it somewhere else, because he was in my parking space. He responded--just as rudely as I had been polite--"Uh, I'm leaving in a few minutes, and I'm on the phone."
What I wanted to say: "I'm talking to you even though you're on the phone, and you're parked in this space even though it's mine. So right now we're inconveniencing each other. The thing is, the whole reason this is happening is that you were inconsiderate in the first place. If you would get in your vehicle and move it somewhere else, right now, then I'd stop talking to you and both our problems would be solved in one stroke."
What I actually said: "Okay."
Yes, I know I did the right thing by not getting nasty about it. Still, it infuriates me that he treated me like I was the one committing the greater rudeness by interrupting his precious phone conversation. Poor baby thinks he's entitled to his phone conversation just because he has a cell phone? Well, I'm entitled to my private parking space, because I live here. So just get your little baby self in that driver's seat of your vehicle--whose make, model, and license plate number I have written down, just in case you think you can do this to me again--and piss off.
I know, I know. "Ha ha, that crazy selfish baby just cracks me up," would be the more appropriate response to what is, after all, a trivial inconvenience rather than a major life-altering crisis. Still, you know? Argh!
My response would've been something along the lines of your first response, only I probably would've been less nice. Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by lem: I accept the data that says cell phones in cars are dangerous. Can someone help me understand why they are more dangerous then talking to a passenger?
There are several ideas about this. A common one is that when a person is in the car with you, they're aware of the situation and can adjust the conversation to suit road hazards. There's one study that suggests that it may be the nature of the audio signal that causes the brain to work harder than it does to follow a person right next to you. However, even though there's no definitive explaination for the phenomenon, the fact that it does happen has been well demonstrated.
This is one weakness (if you want to call it that) of scientific studies, and one that you kind of get used to ignoring if you read enough of them. Things can be exhaustively demonstrated to be true with absolutely no explaination of the reason. For example, there is no concensus on why certain types of diuretics work so well long-term in controlling blood pressure. However, the fact that they do work, for whatever reason, has been so solidly demonstrated that they're considered first-line therapy for most types of hypertension.
Once a series of studies demonstrates something conclusively enough, you don't really need to know why. You just need to accept it and change your behavior accordingly.
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
You know those signs on the back of trucks: "How's my driving? Call..."? Well, I love to call those numbers. I'm always giving a good report on the driver, too. "He's doing a really good job! Staying right in the middle of the lane, observing the speed limit, and when he changed lanes, he used the directional signal appropriately."
Sometimes, I'll call back a few times. "He's still doing great! There was a construction site at the shoulder, and he reduced his speed just like the sign said to!".
If the truck or I are exiting the highway, I'll make one last call. "I've got to get off the highway now, so you'll have to get someone else to do your reporting. But it was an inspiration to ride on the same road with this driver. A consummate professional!"
Long highway trips are boring, and cell phone minutes are cheap. And they post the numbers right on the back of the trucks! It's entrapment, I tell you!
You know what? I think that I am basically a happy person. Is there anything wrong with that?
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
Doesn't your building contract with a towing service? Most places with private parking do so. If they don't already have one, you should suggest it at the next residents meeting.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't know if we do or not. For one thing, we don't have any signs that say "Private Parking, Violators Will Be Towed" or anything like that.
(This may have been an honest mistake on the guy's part. He might simply not have realized these spaces were private. What bothered me most was not so much that he took my space, but that he was so rude about it after I brought it up. No apology for having taken my space, not so much as a facial expression to convey the message "oops". Nothing but a bearing that he was entitled to take my space if he wanted to and a rebuke for having interrupted his phone call.)
We don't have meetings, but I suppose I could bring it up to the landlord and just ask him if we have anything like that. Actually, if it never happens again, then I'm perfectly content to let it go. But like I said, I did write down the guy's license plate number, so if I see his vehicle in my space again, I'll know it's the same guy, at which point I will do something. It would be useful to know if we have such a contract in case it does come to that.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Passengers in a car can also alert the driver to problems the driver hasn't noticed. Call it back seat driving, but I've certainly had that happen to me.
The fact is, I've only once or twice noticed someone whose driving was obviously impaired because they were drunk. But I see people do stupid things nowadays on a daily basis, and you can tell it's because they're yakking on the phone, or dialing, or reaching for a phone that's ringing or whatever.
The behavior of these people is amazing. I've watched people talking into their phone so intently that they looked at the phone instead of the road, as if there was something to see in the phone. People swerving from lane to lane because they are preoccupied with their conversation. People slamming on the brake and opening their cell phone, as if there was some causal relationship.
I watched a woman trying to make a 3 point turn, that turned into a ~17 point turn, because she sort of forgot to steer as she shifted gears. I wish I'd got it on video, because you could get such a clear sense of how her decision making process was interrupted by the phone conversation, and by the fact that she so obviously viewed the conversation (which was trivial) as being more important than driving.
She was also the only driver I've been able to call stupid, since she had her window open and when she finally went past me we were window to window. I told her she wouldn't have looked any more stupid if she'd been holding a bottle of beer to her ear instead of a phone.
OSC's article doesn't seem to make a distinction between legitimate uses for cell phones, and inappropriate use. Sure it makes plenty of sense to call from the supermarket to ask what you should pick up. But that has nothing to do with yakking aimlessly about meaningless drivel when you're responsible for operating a motor vehicle. Maybe those other drivers can't make the distinction either.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by A Rat Named Dog: However, when you are talking to someone on a cell phone who is not in the car with you (and for heaven's sake, that is the only kind of person you should be talking to on a cell phone, unless you're weird), you typically feel a social obligation to carry on the conversation as though you were lounging on a couch or something. Long pauses, interruptions, and derailments seem rude when the other person is not involved in the driving experience with you, so you actually end up splitting off some of your attention to maintain the illusion of non-driving while driving.
If the driving gets hectic while you're in the middle of this kind of conversation, that's when it gets dangerous.
That is exactly what I think and I can't stand talking on the phone to people who are driving, and often it is easy to tell when someone on the other end is driving, and when I can't tell, I get worried they aren't driving too well.
I can't drive and talk on the phone because I have to pay too much attention to the person on the other end, I have to pull over (and feel really stupid for having too). I know when my attention is dangerously low, and talking on the phone does it to me.
Posts: 1209 | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Bob_Scopatz: But I notice a degradation in driving performance even if I'm using a hand's free cell phone or having a live conversation with a human right there in the car with me.
I'm the same way. One of the standard responses to the anti-cell phone argument is, "well, what's the difference between talking on the phone and talking to someone in the car with you." There are several good responses to this, but I do often find myself driving in tricky traffic telling my passengers to cram a sock in it for a minute. Statistically it is safer if the person is in the car with you, but a distraction is a distraction no matter where it's coming from.
Statistically it may be safer for most people, but then, I often try to look at the person who is in the car with me when I am having a conversation with a live person, at least I'm looking at the road when I'm on my cell.
That said, I work for the cellular industry and I can tell you that I avoid being on the phone while driving whenever possible. If I have to use the phone I always use a headset so that I can at least keep both hands on the wheel. And please, don't call in to customer service centers to make payments or do anything else that requires you to write something or give your credit card number while you are driving. It's simply not safe.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
In what seems like a cosmic protest of my meanness to Pearce, a lady on a cell phone nearly mowed me down on my way to work this morning.
Since she did actually make contact with me, I, in typical New yorker fashion, slapped the hood of her shiny SUV and said "Hang up and drive, idiot!" But with a smile. She didn't smile back, though.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Mean Old Frisco: I, in typical New yorker fashion, slapped the hood of her shiny SUV and said "Hang up and drive, idiot!" But with a smile.
I love that you gently corrected her and added on your very charming smile. That is why New Yorkers have a reputation for being the nicest, politest people in the world.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
Tante![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
