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It's been quite a while since I've seen a thread pertaining to this series. Are there any fans left out there? Or am I the only one ...
Posts: 358 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I thought the latest book was something of an improvement; otherwise I've not been thrilled by the last few books. And Crossroads of twilight was an absolute travesty. I'll read the last book when it comes, but I'm not holding my breath, especially with Jordan being ill and all.
Posts: 896 | Registered: Feb 2001
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I guess you could still call me a fan—a somewhat disillusioned fan. Book 11 was a huge improvement over the last few, so that does give me hope for the final volume.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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I guess I count as a fan, although the last book I read was #9. I think I've decided to wait until Jordan's finished, start back over from book 1, and read them through. When I tried to pick up book 10 a while back, I didn't know who anyone was or what was going on anymore.
My husband's read all of them. He tells me book 10 was unforgivably bad and that it was essentially a recap of book 9 told from different points of view with maybe 75 pages of forward action. He did indicate that the most recent book was better and Jordan has indicated that the next book will be the last so....here's hoping. Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I could also perhaps be counted as a fan. I really enjoyed the first 7 or so books at which point they went into a steep decline. I read half of book 10 before giving it up as a bad thing and I never got around to reading book 11. I have heard slightly better things about book 11 and I will probably read it and book 12 once book 12 comes out.
Posts: 14 | Registered: Aug 2007
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I was once a fan. Then books 7,8,9 happened. I bought book 10 and gave up partway through. I have recently decided, however, that since I read so much of it, I can't just give it up altogether. I am now rereading the entire thing (currently on book 2) in the hopes that somehow the ending of it all will make me feel better.
Though at times like this, I think that rereading 10 books because I invested too much time in those ten books in the first place could be considered somewhat insane.
How did any of you manage to read beyond the first few pages of "The Eye of the World?" (my book is a freebie - part 1 of that first book)
Secondly, just how many pages do you have to get through before the writing doesn't suck any more?
note - I am admitting that I haven't read more than a few pages, but have a strong opinion on those pages. I am assuming the writing does get better and would love a clue in regard to how much of the same I have to plod through before it gets decent.
Posts: 4344 | Registered: Mar 2003
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"The Eye of the World" remains the best book.
Robert Jordan has a detail-rich writing style that can be a burden to some, but, IMHO, it's worth it for a number of reasons:
1. The story is very good -- epic, even. 2. The characters are distinctive and realistic -- they create the conflict with their real differences. 3. The world is the most complete I have ever read. Those details can be burdensome, but they help to create a full and believable world with different cultures, different governments, many separate wars and conflicts.
I don't recommend starting until all the books are out (mostly because I'm going to have to start over when that happens or I might fail to remember something) but I do recommend reading them. The world and the story is as full and complex as real life. It is also incredibly well planned. Everywhere you look you see foreshadowing, especially in those seemingly meaningless poems. Things in the first book do have meaning, if not then, then eventually.
Of course, not everyone is going to be able to get past the grandiose writing style. Maybe they'll make it into a movie -- or a series of movies, more like -- and you can appreciate the story that way. Although I don't think you'll get into characters' heads and motivations as much that way.
P.S. I do seem to recall that "The Eye of the World" took a bit of time to get into -- I started to Enjoy it as Rand dragged his father through the woods and into the village and then even more when he took off with his friends on their journey. I seem to recall, although it's been a while, that there is a prologue that is meaningless until you've read more of the series and then some grinding startup.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tristan: I thought the latest book was something of an improvement; otherwise I've not been thrilled by the last few books. And Crossroads of twilight was an absolute travesty. I'll read the last book when it comes, but I'm not holding my breath, especially with Jordan being ill and all.
How much did it weigh?
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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The fifth book excited me since stuff finally happened, but then it went back to Rand's stupid fantasies about how many women he could have at once. *gag* I gave up at book 8. Once Nyneve and Lan got married, I just didn't have anything left I cared about.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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I stopped after book 9... Though I will probably try to reread these all at some point as well if the final volume actually gets made some day.
I think the earlier books are good entertainment though I wouldn't exactly call them great literature. (I'm also not that keen on the Eye of the World, as it is too much like Lord of the Rings to me.) And I explicitly dislike to what extremes Jordan takes the whole "Men Are from Mars, Women Are From Venus" thing of his.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Dec 2006
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I laughed a lot at the people in the reviews on Amazon discussing Crossroads who said variations of "...If you just reread it all from the beginning, it makes so much more sense, it's all so deep and rich and fully imagined..."
Riiiiiight. I'm going to re-read more than three thousand pages on your say-so that this over-extended cash cow becomes great literature. You do realize there are books- good books- on the Roman Empire that clock in at much less? And it's not because the Roman Empire was poorly imagined? (Perhaps because the Roman Empire didn't spend so much time pulling at braids and folding its arms under its breasts...)
I might come back to the Wheel when and if it's done and the books are available as cheap used paperbacks. Crossroads, combined with the prequels (You're going the wrong way-ay...), were an insult to the readership.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sterling: Riiiiiight. I'm going to re-read more than three thousand pages on your say-so that this over-extended cash cow becomes great literature. You do realize there are books- good books- on the Roman Empire that clock in at much less? And it's not because the Roman Empire was poorly imagined? (Perhaps because the Roman Empire didn't spend so much time pulling at braids and folding its arms under its breasts...)
Jordan does seem to have a thing for breasts.
Of course, no book on the Roman Empire is as complete as Jordan's world. It isn't as complete because of the one thing fiction can do that non-fiction usually can't -- it can imagine what's going on inside people's heads and show us the motivations of key players that make empires rise and fall.
I'm not saying it's perfect but, IMHO, it IS great literature.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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The nadir of the series for me was the book that didn't even have Rand in it until the final chapter.
I too thought book eleven was an improvement.
I can't imagine rereading it, though. Sure, I'm a little lost at first, but I pick it up soon enough, and it's just too much to reread, and not good enough on the whole to be worth it.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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I used to read them but gave up. I loved the initial characters but once they started disappearing and the story became about other characters I wasn't emotionally tied to I lost interest. Toooo long and tedious to get those few snippets of the characters I cared about.
Posts: 1132 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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I disagree that the books were all that well planned out. One of the main complaints I have heard about the series, in fact THE main underlying complaint, is that Jordan somehow lost where he was going at some point and floundered around trying to remember it. This was one of the first epic fantasy series I ever started,and after reading others (in particular A Song Of Ice And Fire), I can see just how poorly the foreshadowing was handled. Peppering your book with images and prophecies that may or may not ever be mentioned again is not what I call excellent planning.
quote:Originally posted by prolixshore: I disagree that the books were all that well planned out. One of the main complaints I have heard about the series, in fact THE main underlying complaint, is that Jordan somehow lost where he was going at some point and floundered around trying to remember it. This was one of the first epic fantasy series I ever started,and after reading others (in particular A Song Of Ice And Fire), I can see just how poorly the foreshadowing was handled. Peppering your book with images and prophecies that may or may not ever be mentioned again is not what I call excellent planning.
--ApostleRadio
He hasn't lost where he was going. The path just got bigger than he expected. I tend to think he took on too many side projects and minor characters as he learned even more about the world he was exploring. I have never lost faith that he's got a plan for the ending and knows exactly where he's going, though.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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And its the side projects and minor characters that lose his readers. He should have kept them for a separate series. It would have made for a better book. For example I love the Ender's Shadow series - but if OSC had tried to include all of those stories in his original series it would have been way too much.
Posts: 1132 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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quote:Originally posted by Wendybird: And its the side projects and minor characters that lose his readers. He should have kept them for a separate series. It would have made for a better book. For example I love the Ender's Shadow series - but if OSC had tried to include all of those stories in his original series it would have been way too much.
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Many of my friends lost interest around Book 6, where it really starts to slow down. By book 8, nothing at all is happening. Book 11 it picks up speed again.
The project's too big to be written as one series. Spend a chapter on each character/plotline, and you've got an 800 page book.
However, I still like it well enough. I'm one of those readers that skips words or even sentences at a time. (I caught myself skipping an entire page once... but that's too much, even for me.) So I miss a lot of details, which can actually help with some books. And it makes re-reading books even better, there's new content every time! (Except for things like Ender's Game, I'm surprised I haven't memorized it yet, read it solidly through too many times now.)
On the other hand, it's not a tedious task to read a series like the Wheel of Time. Either way, I'm awaiting the last book.
While we're on topic of series that go on forever, what does everyone think of the Sword of Truth series (Goodkind)
Posts: 39 | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Timoty: While we're on topic of series that go on forever, what does everyone think of the Sword of Truth series (Goodkind)
I think if it had just been one book, it would have been good. I was quite entertained by Wizard's First Rule. I honestly saw no need for sequels.
Each sequel has gotten progressively worse with no sign of improvement. Honestly, I don't even care what happens anymore. The characters are annoying and shallow. The motives simplistic. You can tell all the bad guys because they are sexual deviants in some way.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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It sounds like I gave up and decided that I was done with Jordan at the exact wrong time -- after reading book 10.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: It sounds like I gave up and decided that I was done with Jordan at the exact wrong time -- after reading book 10.
It's ok, I gave up at book 8.
"I'm better than Tolkien, look! More pages!"
I know that's not what he said, but imo, there is tons of stuff that happens and is cool I guess, but not really relevant, nor an economic use of "story".
Posts: 1236 | Registered: Mar 2002
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I suppose I'm a fan as well. The books certainly aren't the worst I've ever read, but they are far from the best fantasy series I've encountered. Knife of Dreams was an improvement over the previous few: it had some moments that were genuinely exciting and/or caused (some form of) emotional reaction.
I'd rather count down to A Dance with Dragons.
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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I liked the first two Goodkind books, but even they were over the top. I don't like the series at all, and could care less what has happened in the past 3 books, as I haven't even bothered to borrow them.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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As for the Sword of Truth stuff, it was ok until it degenerated into libertarian propaganda. Atlas Shrugged at least had novelty going for it, and by book six or so there's little to choose between them for subtlety.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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I have copies of like books 1-8 (I got them for next to nothing through a Science Fiction Book Club deal about two years back). I've read the first two and part of the third, then school started up for the year (fall 2005) and I stopped because of time constraints. I need to get back to them though. I'd like to have read the whole series. Of course my "to read" pile is huge at the moment. So many books...
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Timoty: While we're on topic of series that go on forever, what does everyone think of the Sword of Truth series (Goodkind)
Pure unadulterated crap.
As someone who stopped at Book Two, I gotta ask: did Goodkind ever write any books in the series that couldn't be outlined "Richard struggles with losing his freedom, Kahlan is in danger of being sexually assaulted"?
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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I might read book 12 when it comes out (if it comes out).
I thought the first three books were entertaining, ever since then I've felt as if I were being held hostage. Just tell me what happens to these characters so I can move on with my life. No, no I don't want to know about new characters. Keep your far-flung empires to yourself. Just get to the end of the story.
And the other effect of drawing it out across 10,000 pages is that characters that felt fresh and interesting for about 1000 pages become hopelessly caricatured thereafter. So with each book, my motivation to finish the series dwindles, because I care less and less about the original characters, which is the only reason I'm still reading.
Posts: 2926 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Timoty: While we're on topic of series that go on forever, what does everyone think of the Sword of Truth series (Goodkind)
Pure unadulterated crap.
As someone who stopped at Book Two, I gotta ask: did Goodkind ever write any books in the series that couldn't be outlined "Richard struggles with losing his freedom, Kahlan is in danger of being sexually assaulted"?
For some reason, I read through book 4 or 5...I got to the one where Richard demonstrated the merits of libertarianism in the heart of enemy territory. Anyway, no, that's a pretty good summary of the series. Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I read the first three Sword of Truth books and was at the library, about to pick up the fourth, when I snapped out of it and realized that I hadn't actually enjoyed any of them. The first one seemed alright as I was reading it (even though it seemed worse and worse the more I thought about it), but the next couple were completely derivative, poorly written piles of crap (in my oh-so-humble opinion).
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Sterling: As someone who stopped at Book Two, I gotta ask: did Goodkind ever write any books in the series that couldn't be outlined "Richard struggles with losing his freedom, Kahlan is in danger of being sexually assaulted"?
The last several I read (before I finally gave up) were more like: Richard struggles to lecture the reader about libertarianism. Kahlan may be in danger of being sexually assaulted, but that's not important. Her real part in the plot (like all the other good guy characters) is to listen carefully to what Richard has to say about libertarianism. Reader flips through pages at a time, looking for forward action in the plot or at least some entertainment.
Posts: 36 | Registered: Oct 2006
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Jordan's "World" is about as complete as the Dragonball universe.
"What's that? You've become the most powerful person the world has ever seen? That's incredible!"
<next book/episode>
"Ha! You thought you were powerful! I am far more powerful and now you will have to reach into yourself and find more power that you previously didn't know was there!"
Repeat ad nauseum with a lot of whining and PG T&A.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: Jordan's world is so complete he'll sometimes give you 20 pages describing the clothing of a room full of people you'll never see again.
I don't need that kind of completeness in my books.
When reading Tolkien, I get the feeling that I'm just seeing a tiny bit of a huge and complex world.
With Jordan, I don't get the feeling that there's that much out there that we don't see.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Sterling: As someone who stopped at Book Two, I gotta ask: did Goodkind ever write any books in the series that couldn't be outlined "Richard struggles with losing his freedom, Kahlan is in danger of being sexually assaulted"?
The last several I read (before I finally gave up) were more like: Richard struggles to lecture the reader about libertarianism. Kahlan may be in danger of being sexually assaulted, but that's not important. Her real part in the plot (like all the other good guy characters) is to listen carefully to what Richard has to say about libertarianism. Reader flips through pages at a time, looking for forward action in the plot or at least some entertainment.
Hehe. I'm surrently slogging through Phantom. Richard struggles with metaphorically losing his freedom, Kahlan gets sexually harassed by the one guy who sees her, and they spend, I kid you not, 133 pages on a single conversation. 133 pages on just how evil the Commun--er, the libera--I mean, the Empire is.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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I'm trying to convince myself that I don't have to read sequels written by other authors. Like Kevin J. Anderson. Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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I rather felt I was giving Goodkind the benefit of the doubt reading Book 2. The hundreds of pages it took the hero to recognize why his brother was- of all things- outlawing fire truly took my breath away. Not in a good way.
Erm, sorry. I realize some people are trying to discuss Robert Jordan, here.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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See I read about 2 chapters of Book 1 of TWOT and I was seized with this intense dread that I was going to sift through an ocean of coal just to see diamond dust.
My brother assured me that that would not be the case but I decided to not ignore my feelings. I am SO glad I listened this time. I know I would have been one of those suckers who read through everything, and left the series angry. Fortunately I had so many readers tell me that it's all for naught.
Incidentally I give Mr. Card about 2 chapters to snag me or else I put the book down. Magic Street is the only book by him that has failed this test, and I actually gave it 4 chapters and two seperate attempts.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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but imo, there is tons of stuff that happens and is cool I guess, but not really relevant, nor an economic use of "story".
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