quote:Originally posted by quidscribis: Would you mind providing some more information on the link you've provided? I don't like clicking on links blind, and, I suspect, many others here don't, either.
Xkcd is a nerdy webcomic. The linked strip is about Ender's Game.
posted
Would you mind providing some more information on the link you've provided? I don't like clicking on links blind, and, I suspect, many others here don't, either.
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posted
xkcd is a web-comic. Usually nerd/science-based humor. It's safe for work, and this one is an EG reference.
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Well, it's often safe for work, and today's definitely is, but it sometimes gets on the obscene side. There is a disclaimer which appears on every comic page, and sums the situation up nicely: "Warning: this comic occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)."
quote:Originally posted by Katarain: What mouseover quote?
If you place your mouse over the image, and leave it there, a message should pop up after a few seconds. You can also right-click the image and view properties to read the mouseover text (depending on what browser you use). I won't repeat it here in case people are reading the thread before they look at the comic.
Also, there's a rather interesting discussion of the comic going on in the fora.
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Those are pretty funny. I especially like the "bored with the internet" one that's linked to at the bottom. I like this dude, whoever he is. However... I am once again vexed. Webcomics mean that no one feels like they need to know how to draw anymore. How do we resolve that?
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posted
I think the stick figures add to the charm of the strip. Munroe manages to get an extraordinary amount of emotion out of the simplest of drawings (sort of like Exploding Dog)... I can't actually think of any way that more elaborate artwork would enhance his particular style of humor.
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Annie: lots of webcomics have real artists who really know how to draw.
If you want to see good art read: Something*Positive Girly Misfile El Goonish Shive Earthsong (GREAT art!) Inverloch (AMAZING art!) The Zombie Hunters Questionable Content (VERY well drawn!) or any of dozens upon dozens of others.
XKCD doesn't need great art to get its funny across and still have readers.
And of course, one of the best webcomics out there is Order Of The Stick.
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quote:Yes, stamp out their creativity. Everyone must do art the same way...
Of course they don't. But they have to learn how to do it before they consciously choose not to.
I don't know how many times a critique in art class turned into a defensive "you're stamping out my creativity!"
There was one girl in my ceramics class who just insisted that she liked her mugs extra thick and that's why she made them that way.
My professor answered: "You can make them thick the way you like them once you learn how to make them stop exploding in the kiln."
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quote:I think the stick figures add to the charm of the strip.
Yeah, but that's an easy freshman-in-art-school answer. "But I LIKE it that way!"
Wow. Presumptuous much?
I like plenty of strips with great art. Scary Go Round, Penny Arcade, Mac Hall (and its spinoff, Three Panel Soul), Minus... I could go on and on. Each of the artists behind those strips can draw like nobody's business- and each independently invalidates your claim that webcomics are somehow promoting acceptance of crappy artwork. If anything, webcomics have spurred a renaissance in *good* artwork, since the reduced limitations of web publication promote open canvasses, full color, and digital artwork.
My appreciation of xkcd comes from its writing, which is brilliant. I think that the simplicity of the artwork gives greater focus to the writing. Furthermore, I would argue that xkcd is actually an example of great compositional technique. Strips like this one very effectively illustrate the feeling behind the text, without coming off as maudlin. An artist more talented with a pen could have filled the frame with color, given the woman's spinning body detail and shading, made the bed photorealistic... but does that add anything to the point being made? I don't think so. There's a good chance it would, in fact, come off as schmaltzy and sentimental, rather than a simply-stated, somewhat whimsical expression of love.
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Annie, I prefer to think of it as opening the world a little bit. Those who can draw will continue to do so, and those who can't draw but have The Funny will make stick figures.
It isn't that they are refusing to learn how to draw, but that without the medium, they wouldn't be allowing me to access their Funny.
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quote:Yes, stamp out their creativity. Everyone must do art the same way...
Of course they don't. But they have to learn how to do it before they consciously choose not to.
I don't know how many times a critique in art class turned into a defensive "you're stamping out my creativity!"
There was one girl in my ceramics class who just insisted that she liked her mugs extra thick and that's why she made them that way.
My professor answered: "You can make them thick the way you like them once you learn how to make them stop exploding in the kiln."
How do you know they don't know how to draw? Rich Burlew (of the aforementioned Order of the Stick) can draw quite well, but chooses to do a stick figure comic. He actually gets a bit miffed at the whole 'Rich can't draw!' mail that he gets and worked a few of his more detailed sketches into the strip just to show he could do it.
I keep threatening to put this one on my refigerator at home because both my hubby and I do this: http://xkcd.com/c231.htmlPosts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: Annie: lots of webcomics have real artists who really know how to draw.
If you want to see good art read: Something*Positive Girly Misfile El Goonish Shive Earthsong (GREAT art!) Inverloch (AMAZING art!) The Zombie Hunters Questionable Content (VERY well drawn!) or any of dozens upon dozens of others.
Add Sluggy Freelance to that list - in general it's very good art, but sometimes he outdoes himself and produces something amazing.
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I do agree Tick, that the guy in the strip you linked to is a dang good artist. But you can tell that from his "stick figures." It's not about style, it's about execution. See - he chooses a deliberately simple style, and he executes it well. I think he pulls it off rather nicely.
And I'm not trying to be high and mighty - this is just how I see things. But I do find a disturbing trend with modern technology and desktop publishing to publish things just because we can. This is not a bad thing - many talented people are able to reach audiences this way. But I do think it causes us to settle for mediocrity.
Is the xkcd comic writer brilliant? Absolutely! So was Oscar Hammerstein, but he only wrote the lyrics. He teamed up with someone to write the score.
I think that many would-be artists and authors (myself included!) would be pushed to do better work if they didn't settle for the quasi-fame of the internet. Whether it be collaborations or higher training personally, there are ways that much of our mediocre art could be pushed and refined into great art.
But you don't have to take my word for it.
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quote:Originally posted by Annie: Yes, but aren't we plebians?
First answer: If so, SO WHAT?
Second answer: Pfft. Just because I appreciate the subtle nuance of the Mona Lisa does not mean I cannot appreciate my child's collage, a stick-figure comic sketch (and traditionally, most newspaper comics are pretty minimalist anyway), a simple quilt, and an elaborate mosaic.
Appreciating one does not have to be an exclusion of the others. Does it?
If someone were praising xkcd for its mastery of perspective, you would have a point. But we're saying that we like it, and that it's funny. Its artistic merits are besides the point.
That does not mean that artistic merits in general are besides the point, though.
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I agree that it's very funny and very smart. I'm just not convinced that its artistic merits are beside the point, though it makes a good argument. That's why I was so sorely vexed in my first post.
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I WOULD be worthy of Annie's bane, as all I can draw are Burlew-esque (Burlesque?) figures. But yes, someone illustrate Scott's comic!
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Edit: Obviously, the earliest ones are earlier in the journal. But the author's comments are equally hilarious.
quote:Padme, like every girl, knew it was practically impossible to find a man who was young, hot and good father material. She had to work with what she had: young, hot and psychopathic. Besides, her biological clock was ticking. She didn’t really care who provided the fiery seed, she just wanted a baby. Real bad. She figured two out of three was good enough. The most important thing was Anakin was hot. And young.
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Here's an excerpt to tingle your tastebuds...
quote: #14
PANEL 1:
JONAH IS SLIDING DOWN A LADDER—HOLDING ONTO IT WITH HIS HANDS, BUT SPACING HIS FEET WIDE APART SO THAT THEY ARE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE LADDER FRAME.
PANEL 2:
ANGELA FOLLOWS HIM CAREFULLY.
PANEL 3:
THEY ARE IN A SMALL, CLUTTERED CARGO BAY.
ANGELA: What is this? Why did we have to crawl through fifty feet of air ducts to get here?
JONAH: This is one of the original cargo bays. We disabled the doors…
ANGELA: Why—oh. Oh my…
PANEL 4: (HALF PAGE SPREAD…OR REALLY BIG PICTURE, WHATEVER WORKS FOR YOU)
IN FRONT OF HER IS A SLEEK MOTORCYCLE. JANUARY KARL IS SITTING CROSS-LEGGED ON THE GROUND LOOKING UP AT HER, GRINNING. THERE IS A LAPTOP ACROSS HIS KNEES, A CORD RUNNING TO AN INTERFACE ON THE MOTORCYCLE. BITS AND PARTS OF THE MOTORCYCLE’S ENGINE ARE LAID OUT ON THE FLOOR.
PANEL 5:
ANGELA: That’s a Harley Davidson Knucklehead.
JONAH: Is it?
ANGELA: You didn’t know?
JANUARY: No. We just call it Morticia.
JONAH: I thought we agreed on Janeway?
PANEL 6:
ANGELA (APPROACHES THE MOTORCYCLE, LAYS HER HAND ON THE FENDER): Shh, Jonah, you’re scaring her. Where did you find her?
PANEL 7:
JONAH AND JANUARY EXCHANGE GLANCES.
JONAH: Um… salvage mission.
PANEL 8:
ANGELA IS HOLDING A PIECE TO THE ENGINE. JANUARY AND JONAH ARE LOOKING AT HER.
ANGELA: Why are there parts everywhere?
JANUARY: No instruction manual.
PANEL 9:
ANGELA (PICKING AT THE CORD): What’s this for?
JANUARY: Operating system. It looks like this beast runs on a combustion engine; since hooking one of those things is impossible…
ANGELA: Moderately difficult, anyway…
JANUARY: …we hooked up a hybrid drive to it instead. There was room in that casing for a computer, so…
PANEL 10:
ANGELA IS LAYING HER HEAD AGAINST THE HARLEY’S GAS TANK, RUNNING HER FINGERS ALONG IT.
ANGELA (CROONING TO THE MOTORCYCLE): Heathen boys. What have they done to you, my lovely? I’ll make it all better…
PANEL 11:
ANGELA (TO JANUARY): Give me a wrench. First thing, we take out the hybrid drive. It won’t make nearly the amount of noise we want.
quote:Originally posted by Annie: Of course they don't. But they have to learn how to do it before they consciously choose not to.
I don't know how many times a critique in art class turned into a defensive "you're stamping out my creativity!"
There was one girl in my ceramics class who just insisted that she liked her mugs extra thick and that's why she made them that way.
My professor answered: "You can make them thick the way you like them once you learn how to make them stop exploding in the kiln."
I agree that in an art class, you need to worry about mastering technique before you can worry about developing your unique style. I had the same sort of "But this is my style!" whiners in my art classes, and I agreed with my teachers then.
But I also think that I like the style of XKCD regardless of how the artist developed that style. Yes, the internet has made it possible for all kinds of people without any semblance of talent to publish stuff. But I don't think that necessarily means that society has lowered its standards of what it considers to be good art. And I also don't think that everyone who wants to draw a comic strip has to become an expert at figure drawing before they can decide to use stick figures instead.
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posted
Occasionally you need someone who has not been trained in the normal way to shake things up. Once you learn "the way it's done" it's harder to think outside the box, so to speak... and that's important in everything. Especially art.
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quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: Occasionally you need someone who has not been trained in the normal way to shake things up. Once you learn "the way it's done" it's harder to think outside the box, so to speak... and that's important in everything. Especially art.
That's true, but obviously not all change is good change.
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BB: I was thinking specifically of Danny Elfman. He's taken flack for not being professionally schooled, yet he's an incredibly prolific when it comes to movie scores (and back in the old days, with his rock band.)
He's one of my favorite living composers, but the people who "know how it's done right" hate him.
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quote:Is the xkcd comic writer brilliant? Absolutely! So was Oscar Hammerstein, but he only wrote the lyrics. He teamed up with someone to write the score.
I strongly suspect that I would not like xkcd so much if it had more elaborate artwork. I believe the simplicity -- and specifically the blank, faceless nature of the protagonists -- is what makes the strip work, much in the same way that the dinosaur clip art of qwantz.com could not be improved through, say, more realistic and dynamic drawings of dinosaurs. It's part of the strip's aesthetic, not some necessary evil.
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quote:I think that many would-be artists and authors (myself included!) would be pushed to do better work if they didn't settle for the quasi-fame of the internet.
Says the girl on an internet bulletin board. Do you have a website? Myspace/Livejournal/blogspot of your own? Do tell.
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It doesn't need to be more realistic. Comics by their very nature are not like oil paintings. But, as the Order of the Stick guy illustrates (heh), one can do simple and faceless well.
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quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: BB: I was thinking specifically of Danny Elfman. He's taken flack for not being professionally schooled, yet he's an incredibly prolific when it comes to movie scores (and back in the old days, with his rock band.)
He's one of my favorite living composers, but the people who "know how it's done right" hate him.
That's news to me. The friends of mine who have BAs and MAs in different music focuses seem to think he's something of an autodidact crossover inspiration.
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posted
*giggles* Okay. I read this last night and it was funny, but after reading there was mouse-over text went back to see it, and almost peed my pants.
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quote:Do you have a website? Myspace/Livejournal/blogspot of your own? Do tell.
Yes.
Many of my Hatrack friends are familiar with my artwork and mediocre writing.
Why do you bother putting it on the internet if it's mediocre? Why not find someone better than you to realize your visions with more talent?
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But yes, someone illustrate Scott's comic!
