posted
I was doing a critique, and I was musing (fuming?) about one of the standard fantasy genre fixtures that I really don't care for: Thief stories. (No offense. De gustibus non disputandum est.)
So, I dashed off a 2,500 word story told from the first person viewpoint of a crusty old tower guard that starts out a little something like this:
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Every story and legend I ever heard, where some magic something-or-another gets itself stole, says the guards is all asleep -- most usually from being drunk. Some thieving little fancy-feet slips in all quiet-like, lifts the goods, and then pops back out while the guards is snoring into an empty barrel.
Don’t you believe it, 'cause I can tell you: Guards don’t fall asleep. And they sure as sunshine don’t drink at their posts. Leastways, not where I come from.
I been a guard of this tower for as long as most people been alive. I was at Karzur with General Fau, before you was born, and I seen things there that’ll freeze a man’s guts all up inside him. I left three good fingers on the field -- one of them big Borshali spear-axes cut right through my shield and my hand along with it. I’m a lefty now whether I like it or not!
But like I was saying ...
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The narrator has a slight problem staying focused, and his grammar is appropriately atrocious. No connection whatsoever to my WIP novel; this one has magic (give or take).
posted
I must say, this is one of the most enjoyable pieces I have read on this forum. You introduce your character well and give the reader a good idea of his background through the vernacular used in the narrative. It makes me want to keep reading to see what he has to say.
The only problem I had was in the last paragraph. He has lost fingers when an axe cuts through his shield. From the description I would expect him to have lost fingers on his shield hand -- yet you say he is a lefty now. I'm having a hard time envisioning how he lost the fingers on his right hand when the axe went through his shield unless he was already a lefty, but in that case he wouldn't bother to mention it now.
posted
Hey, I'd love to read the whole thing if you're looking for readers.
"I been a guard of this tower for as long as most people been alive." This line is great, it tells me so much about him. He's old, he's not upwardly mobile and kinda proud of it. Nice.
posted
Yeah, I agree with the shield thing. But it looks funny. I like the alternate look stories, where someone who isn't usually a heroic type, but is actually a stereotype. There's a good book, called "Heroics for Beginners" by John Moore, that does this superbly. I'd read it.
[This message has been edited by Netstorm2k (edited January 09, 2005).]
posted
your MC's voice sounds, hmm, familiar. Something like: "Trolls? Sure I killed trolls. Hunderds of 'em."
I love a story with a unique voice done well. The real challenge is keeping yourself from going so crazy with it that you're the only one who can understand what he's saying. But I don't see any of that here.
posted
Wow,lots of interest. I'll send copies your way.
Do please let me know if the narrative voice is overdone. He's somewhat based on the old guy named Cotton who was the caretaker of the city dump in Gorman, Texas, where I grew up. He lived in a shack just outside the gate to the dump. The dump was free, but the "rule" was that you had to give Cotton first pick off of whatever you were dumping. I swear, I'm not making that up.
Anyhow, I guess this makes more sense:
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I left three good fingers on the field -- one of them big Borshali spear-axes cut right through my sword and my sword-hand along with it. I'm a lefty now, like it or not!
posted
Eh, but generally it would make more sense if the axe cut through the sword's crossguard rather than the sword itself. You chop through a sword with a poleaxe, there's virtually no chance that you'll strike the swordhand.
That aside, I think that it sounds like a fun story, particularly if it involves some unlucky thief being gutted. I wouldn't mind reading it at all.
posted
Maybe he was using a second hand sword without a proper hand guard and he could comment on what an important lesson those 3 fingers bought him. Posts: 552 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I suppose it could be done if you hit the sword low enough and cut through the hand along with the handle and tang, rather than the blade. Besides, many early swords didn't even have crossguards. It seems to be an invention that came along after people kept getting their fingers chopped off (heh). Or I could always just blame it on an unreliable narrator! Yeah, that's the ticket!
All right. I should have been either less specific, or more correct.
But goodness, I'm sure if/when you all read the whole story you'll come up with MUCH more to pick on that just that. The tower plan I've come up with, for example, is profoundly impractical. (Since I'm a profoundly impractical person, it only stands to reason.) If you are itching to point this out, noble critiquers, you will be preaching to the converted (though the choir still enjoys a good sermon, like anyone else).
(BTW, excellent idea, HuntGod. Your check is in the mail.)
[This message has been edited by Mekvat (edited January 10, 2005).]
posted
If I were too poor to afford a sword with a proper handguard, I would convert it into a polearm. Not that a regular crossguard would do a lot of good against a poleaxe. If you look at the mechanics, the conventional block that you use against a descending stroke relies heavily on your crossguard holding up, but a poleaxe might well chop right through the thing. That would lose you a few fingers, and is part of the reason that poleaxes were so effective in formation combat despite the fact that you can't really do anything other than the basic downstroke in that situation.
As for towers with impractical designs...how practical is a tower in the first place?
posted
I just figured it was an old geezer exagerrating. He probably really lost the fingers in a bar fight or to cold, but is having one of those "we had to walk uphill in the snow both ways" moments.
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Yeah, I was thinking about that. What if he actually had them bit off by a midget in a dress while he was drunk and molesting a rabbit? I would say I lost them in battle too.
Posts: 331 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
That would work too given the voice of the guard.
After telling that he lost them in battle have him think back to how he actually lost them and then justify it with "well it's the lesson that counts not the facts" or some such.
I find hypocrisy increases exponentially as you age. You did stupid things as a kid and don't want your kid to make the same stupid mistakes, so you denounce those activities often with the "I'd never have done that when I was your age" type comments, even though you MOST definately did do that kind of stupid stuff when you were there age.
posted
Do you have kids? Maybe it's being a parent that makes you more hypocritical as you get older.
I know I find myself omitting stupid things I did as a youth when counseling my children to not do something that I know could harm them. When I do use an example of something stupid I did and then tell them not to do it, then I am being a hypocrite.
posted
Hmmm...I do give people advice, and I don't always pay attention to the advice I'm giving. One time I was fixing a broken furnace with my brother, and it had a flameout while we were fooling with it.
So I'm like, "Okay, we'll have to let that cool off a bit before we try to light it again."
Then, quite casually, I flipped open the combustion chamber panel and tossed in a lit match. A great gout of flame shot out and hit me in the chest, spreading out and singeing me pretty nicely. To this day I cannot fathom why I did that. I think I had just gotten used to the idea that if I gave good advice, then it was inevitable that someone would ignore it. And I sensed that my brother wasn't going to ignore my advice.
posted
I think it would be a mistake to have his comment about the fingers be a cover-up for some less glorious misdeed in his past. While it might make for an interesting aside, I think it would weaken the character's credibility. After all, isn't he telling us that stories lie? If your premise is that, in real life, guards don't fall asleep quite so easily as they do in fables, then having your storyteller lie about a detail in the opening scene weakens his authority to tell the story your trying to tell.
As for the left-hand/right-hand problem. I think the debate that is raging demonstrates that having his sword-arm cut is going to create problems. The shield hand made a lot more sense. Is it important for him to be a lefty? Can't he just have lost fingers from his left hand? Maybe he was a lefty to start with and now must use his right.
When you think about it, missing a bunch of fingers from his sword-hand might make him less useful in any armed position.
BTW, love the characterization so far. Jefficus
[This message has been edited by Jefficus (edited January 18, 2005).]
posted
I don't see any plot-based reason for him to have lost fingers (given that I have seen only a few lines, this might well be a quibble), and if there is none, then it would be much simpler for you, if he just had taken a wound to the forearm of the arm he held the shield with. Frankly, the idea that the wound would be a cut clean enough to take off fingers AFTER a sword went through the shield , is a bit of a stretch. I think it would make more sense for the sword to have cut and broken the shield to the point of failure, and for the failed edge of the shield to have then torn/bruised/cut the forearm. That would have given enough of a wound for the guard to be retired from active fighting to a tower guard position, but not enough of a wound to impair the credibility of his continuing in service.
There was much more to being a soldier than fighting in the sword and shield days. A soldier had to prepare camp, haul and carry, shovel, build latrines etc. A man with a damaged forearm might still be capable of prviding valuable service in a camp ro fortress, but not on campaign. A man without a hand, or missing fingers, might not be worth keeping on, in any capacity.
posted
Honestly, I think the loss of his fingers CAN have some significance, but I also think that having that information so soon without it being important to the story causes people to question why it's there almost naturally. If the joke isn't really important or good enough to worry about keeping, and really does bring up some problems. However, think of it from another angle, what has losing his fingers cost this man? What has it added to his personality? Have the other guards given him a nickname because of it ("Thumbs" and "Pinky" come to mind)? I realize I haven't read the whole story, but I think there's a good bit of depth that can be added to this character by putting more of a focus on his missing fingers. Also, it DOES make more sense for him to have lost his fingers because of a pierced shield rather than a stroke at his sword hand for a couple of reasons. 1. An injured shield hand wouldn't take a person out of the military. Losing the sword hand would force him to completely re-learn the way he fights, which would probably result in him being killed at some point, thus, not being able to tell this whole story (Unless you want this to be the story told from a dead man). 2. If he had his sword hand injured in such a way during a battle, it is more likely that he would be killed instantly than surviving the battle, as his foe would have likely taken the oportunity to finish the job right there. A pierced shield would actually work in this character's favor, as a stuck weapon would allow him the oportunity to strike back against an almost undefended opponent.
Anyway, think about it like this, the lefty joke pretty much needs to go, it'd really just confuse people and raise more questions than it should. I don't think your whole story rides on this single point. However, it would be a good idea to think about increasing the importance of his injury. The fact that he lost fingers in a battle and still survived is probably not a common thing in the kind of battle he was in. So just play with it a little.
posted
My first day and first post on this forum. So if I make any etiquette errors, my apologies.
One thing this piece has is a hook. I want to know about this guard, and what he has seen, sitting in the background. Obviously, he has had some interactions with thieves, what was he guarding? What do the guard due for security procedures, especially where magic might be involved?
I read a hundred novels a year minimum, so the comparasion I want to make is not gratuitous. For some reason I was reminded of the beginning of the Farseer novels, and young Fitzchivalry. Something in the tone and style. CJ Cherryh has also developed some excellent supporting characters reminiscent of this guard, although never as a main character.
As someone who would have liked to see Chewbacca save the day in Star Wars after Luke failed, I think there is an audience for the guy in the background to be the lead with their quiet heroism rather than the in your face stuff. Just my thoughts. I'd certainly be interested in critiquing the full work.
posted
yep, we're all very excited about the fingers. look at what excitement fingers can cause. we start with a seasoned old veteran (a true servant of his nation, or something), and evolve him to a maimed drunkard into bestiality (that poor, poor rabbit).
so far, the story's pretty fun. i'd like to read it. i'd give you my critique on the first 13 lines but...who wants to talk about some old pervert before he gets to the REALLY juicy stuff? lol.
posted
I found the opening paragraph sucking me into the story. With regards to the guard loosing his hand and him becoming a lefty, it kinda threw me. In any case, I would love to read it.
[This message has been edited by maverick (edited January 18, 2005).]
posted
You know, I've got no problem with the idea that a guy could lose a few fingers in a melee battle and end up being a guard.
I do agree with Dude that if it was his shield-arm, then he would have already been a lefty, though I don't see that it hurts the story for that to be the case. If you can't hold a shield properly anymore, you're even less good in a battle than if you can't hold a sword, truth be told.
I also had a specific problem with an axe blow cutting through the sword itself, rather than just the handguard, and subsequently managing to remove fingers. The geometry of a sword simply doesn't allow this to occur. If a blow that cuts right through a sword removes any part of the hand, it's going to remove it before going through the sword.
But when you fight with edged melee weapons, losing fingers is a real danger. It's a non-fatal injury that often doesn't hurt your ability to do simple manual labor but will usually prevent you from being much help on the front-line.
posted
Wow. I thought this thread was dead. Lots of people have read the story, and I've gotten lots of quality feedback. Now more people want to read it (on it's way).
As much fun as it is to listen to people quibble about the fingers, I think I should ruin it: The lost fingers are important to character, but not to plot. They speak to his credibility as a soldier, and also count toward explaining why he's a guard now and not still a soldier. What is NOT important in any way is how he lost 'em. It was on the battlefield; how it happened is just a throwaway detail that that adds color (and doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I agree). The (current) edited version makes a lot more sense. I'll post it shortly.
posted
Here's the current version, with only very minor changes (if it ain't broke ...):
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Every story and legend I ever heard of, where some magic something-or-another gets itself stole, says the guards is all asleep -- most usually from being drunk. Some thieving little fancy-feet slips in all quiet-like, lifts the goods, and then pops back out while the guards is snoring over an empty barrel.
Don't you believe it, 'cause I can tell you: Guards don't fall asleep. And they sure as sunshine don't drink at their posts. Leastways, not around here.
I been a guard of this here tower for as long as most people been alive. I was at Karzur with General Fau, before you was born, and I seen things there that'll freeze a man's guts all up inside him. I left three good fingers on the field -- one of them big Borshali spear-axes cut 'em clean off. That's why they call me Lefty.
posted
You know what's funny? Nobody seems to have commented yet on the irony that this story is about a guard who claims he never falls asleep, yet does fall asleep at his post.
But it's the good kind of irony rather than the bad kind.
posted
True, Survivor, true. (Although the comment will be lost on those who haven't read the whole thing.)
That wasn't mentioned in any of the crits, nor did anyone comment on the irony that the narrator demonstrates his premise that guards never fall asleep by telling the story of a guard who did in fact fall asleep at his post. FWIW, those two bits of irony were intentional. (As Lefty would say, "Life don't make sense that way sometimes.") Anyhow, since nobody mentioned that negatively in the crits, I reckon the irony works.
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