A girl wants to wear clothing that reveals her naval (gasp!) and tight jeans -- or a mini-skirt. How on earth is that indicating a lack of self-confidence?
Tell me. I'm sure the answer will be interesting.
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't know about self-confidence. I think that it lacks modesty and taste.
If it's ever a self-confidence thing, it's these people who blindly follow fashions to fit in. In that case, it's not the revealing clothing itself that reveals lack of self-confidence, but just the fact that they buy into every fashion trend.
That's my take on it, but I didn't want to plow through that other thread, so I may be restating some old stuff...
Posts: 1996 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
On second thought, it may be interesting to ask these people WHY they're wearing this revealing clothing. If it's because they feel a desperate need to have lots of people attracted to them, because of low self-esteem or something, then yes, that betrays a lack of self-confidence.
Posts: 1996 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Lacks modesty? Of course! The definition of modesty is designed against that exact type of behavior.
However, while if a woman does it only to follow fashion it is pathetic, if a woman does it 'cause she wants to, I really don't care.
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I guess, for me, when a girl wears clothes that make it difficult to distinguish her from a prostitute, I'm justified in saying she dresses like one.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
In all honesty, though, the trends in women's clothing of the last couple of years or so, while undeniably "slutty," do not, in fact look like what prostitutes wear.
Honestly, have none of you driven whatever passes for "the strip" in your town?
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
She dresses so because she needs the attention to reinforce how she feels about herself. A lack of security and personal confidence is replaced with what she perceives as positive reinforcement from others.
When society glorifies people dressing and acting in a given fashion, it reinforces the message to people seeking positive reinforcement.
And I think we're talking more than showing "a little skin."
posted
Must be your town, Icky. Here in Tucson the major difference between the slutty clothes and the prostitutes clothes are nothing more than cleanliness.
I realize that sounds bad, but.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree with your point regarding prostitutes, Icarus, but what fashions to you are 'slutty'? Slutty to me means that the woman sleeps with a lot of men. What fashions suggest this idea to you? Does wanting to look sexy imply that the woman is a slut to you? Please elaborate.
My experience with sluts is that they dress no more or less demurely than any other woman.
I find the idea that a woman is slutty just because she chooses to dress provocatively to be offensive and a form of negative objectification.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:My experience with sluts is that they dress no more or less demurely than any other woman.
In my vast research, I've found clothing style to be a good indication of sexual activity. Had I known I was doing research at the time, I'd have documented more.
Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
"Sometimes you have to show a little skin. This reminds boys of being naked, and then they think of sex."
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have no idea what you're quoting, Porter, but it doesn't imply that the (I'm assuming) woman actually has a lot of sex with men.
And the question should be asked, so what if she does?
Do you honestly not understand that there is a vast gulf between liking to look desirable and sexy and screwing a lot of men? Chicken feather/chicken, no?
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I like to wear low-rise jeans and (gasp!) occasionally show a little skin. Right now I'm wearing jeans with a low-cut tank top that I'm sure some people would frown upon. I'll be 18 on Friday, I don't sleep around, and I certainly don't consider myself a slut. I've got pretty high self-confidence, and I don't feel the need to wear skimpy clothes to attract guys. I wear this clothing because I like how I look in it. Sure, it's nice to be considered attractive, but most of the guys I know (and any guy I would consider dating anyway) would find me just as nice-looking in a t-shirt and jeans as in a tube top and a miniskirt. I think it's ridiculous to call a girl a slut just because of the clothing she wears. The term describes behavior, not appearance...right?
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
But I have to wonder if you'd like how you looked in them if they weren't considered attractive by other people. The best example of this that I can think of is the time that my mother got braces when she was forty to correct a gap between her front teeth. She claimed that she didn't care what anyone else thought, only about what she saw in the mirror. But would she have felt the gap was worth correcting if it had been considered by society to be a very sexy trait?
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think flashing underwear to the world is trashy, and I try to avoid doing it. Low-rise jeans do occasionally present a problem, but unless you're deliberately trying to do it, I'm pretty sure it is entirely possible to prevent your underwear from showing.
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
But, see, the style is to show them off. Girls are actually spending money on thongs that rise higher on their backs and have various bells and whistles to show off.
Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:But I have to wonder if you'd like how you looked in them if they weren't considered attractive by other people.
I trust my best friend's advice about what is considered attractive. If he tells me something looks good on me, I believe him, and if he advises me not to wear something, I usually won't.
My favorite jeans are extremely old, with giant holes in the knees, patched holes in the butt, and ragged edges. He HATES them. He says they are dirty-looking and ugly...but I still wear them, 'cause I like how they look. Same thing applies with other clothes. I'm sure my opinion of how my clothes look on me is influenced somewhat by what is considered fashionable or trendy, but I don't wear something just because it's "in style".
I don't think all the clothing I wear is considered attractive by most people's standards, but I like it, so I wear it anyway.
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Let me go on the record of saying that there's a vast difference between an inch of skin and butt- and boob-cleavage. The latter is what disgusts me more when I go outside. Bikini tops and skirts that show the bottom of the derriere when the wearer kicks back too far were not meant to be worn in polite society.
And yes, I believe that most women who wear this are either skanks, extremely self-conscious, or teenagers who don't fully realize that what they're wearing is appalling. Being comfortable and proud of your body should lead to dressing in a way that's most flattering to your body, and seeing every inch of your dimpled, cellulite-riffic butt is not flattering. If you believe that the body is most attractive the way God made it, good for you. You are welcome to display that at home where people will think you're attractive anyway.
Is it a matter of personal taste? I'd say yes, in the same way that believing indecent exposure is disgusting is a matter of personal taste.
And for the record, I feel the same way about butts with no cellulite.
posted
I go to a club on some Wednesday nights in which the accepted attire is slutwear. It's called Fetish Night, and it's 18+. You can go in anything resembling slutty except for nudity.
So how do I dress? My clothes would likely fall into "slutwear" category by many of you. This is a self-contained situation, to be sure, but I still choose to wear the clothes and go. Why? In agreement with Avadaru, I like how I look in these clothes.
A subtle tease. Aggressive tramp. Elegant and see-through. They're personas, and they're fun. Of course there's an understood power struggle. Do the men who gape at the women hold power over these women? Or do the women control by their carefully chosen appearances?
The problem for me with people who look down their noses at these clothes is the condescension, the judging. You don't like it when someone wrongfully judges you based on a superficial layer: what food you eat, how large your family is, what you do on Sundays. Why produce even more ill-will by creating such negative emotions against someone because of their clothes?
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote: But I have to wonder if you'd like how you looked in them if they weren't considered attractive by other people.
You know, there are about ten women in the world who don't wear they wear with an eye to how other people see them, ie that they'll be judged attractive by whatever culture, sub-culture, or click they inhabit. The idea that 'modest' women don't care is totally silly and totally refuted by this and the other thread. After all, you guys wouldn't want to wear 'slutty' clothing, would you?
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Storm, I was not implying that I was above such concerns. I was implying that for Avadaru to say that she was is a bit hard for me to believe.
quote: Sure, it's nice to be considered attractive, but most of the guys I know (and any guy I would consider dating anyway) would find me just as nice-looking in a t-shirt and jeans as in a tube top and a miniskirt.
posted
PSI, you think it's hard to believe that Avadaru's guy friends can appreciate her beauty no matter what she's wearing? It seems that it's THAT kind of attitude that brings upon the "slutfest" of attire you so hate.
Here we are told "love someone for their personality!" "looks don't matter!" but then you don't believe her when she says those are the kinds of people she knows?
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
PSI, I don't want you to get the impression that I am saying that I am 100% lacking in concern about how people see me. I'm in many ways a typical teenage girl; I like to look good when I go out. I just see a difference between myself and a good number of girls my age. If I spend a lot of time on my hair and makeup before going out in the evening, and then it rains and it all gets ruined, I'm not going to freak out about it. I might have mascara under my eyes and dripping wet hair, but if I'm enjoying myself, I think that (the right kind of) guys will find that a lot more attractive than a girl who immediately starts whining and complaining about the situation. Appearance is only important to me to a certain degree.
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote: Storm, I was not implying that I was above such concerns. I was implying that for Avadaru to say that she was is a bit hard for me to believe.
You (I think it was you) and others have made comments in either this or the other thread that women who wear revealing clothes have low self esteem because they liked how they looked to other people (men). So, please pardon my assumption that you were continuing in this vein.
quote: quote: Sure, it's nice to be considered attractive, but most of the guys I know (and any guy I would consider dating anyway) would find me just as nice-looking in a t-shirt and jeans as in a tube top and a miniskirt.
posted
Some folks on hatrack get angry when a blanket statement gets made about stay-at-home-moms. You know, the stuff like "their lives are so empty" or "how unfulfilling to care to the needs of others." Really stereotyping a SAHM, and incorrectly. As we've been shown, SAHM as just as interesting and diverse as the rest of the population.
It's the same thing here. Even though slut-wear doesn't fit into your version of reality, it doesn't give you the right-of-way to denigrate those who wear it.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
You know what I really like? Extremely tight, low-rise jeans -- I don't really care about underwear showing one way or the other -- just low enough to reveal one of those tribal tattoo thingies just above the small of the back. Always nice. But slutty. *shrug*
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
But everything signifies something--and "slutwear" signifies, among other things, being a slut. That does NOT mean that every person who wears such clothing is a slut, but the clothing does signify the idea (at this point and time in our culture). That type of clothing ALSO signifies a lot of other things in our culture--I'm not saying it only signifies "Slut!"
I guess my point is that recognizing the signal and what it signifies in a culture doesn't make you judgemental--just observant.
posted
I posted this on the "other thread". But much of the discussion appears to be here.
I think "slutwear" is a misnomer (and offensive) for the reasons stated. Women-wearing-revealing-clothes does not equal women-who-are-easy (though there may be some correlation). I do, however, think that women-wearing-revealing-clothes often equals women-who-make-men-lust-after-them (depending on how good she looks in the clothes). But I am not a guy, so I don't know.
As much as men may like women to dress provocatively, *I* don't like it. And I am pretty sure that men who believe in "not lusting" and keeping their thoughts pure don't appreciate the added temptation/distraction.
Storm noticed that the people who object to women dressing provocatively are the same people who believe in "not lusting". That is not surprising. Though I imagine a lot of men who may appreciate their peers dressing like that also don't want their daughters to dress like that. Why is that do you think?
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote: The problem for me with people who look down their noses at these clothes is the condescension, the judging. You don't like it when someone wrongfully judges you based on a superficial layer: what food you eat, how large your family is, what you do on Sundays. Why produce even more ill-will by creating such negative emotions against someone because of their clothes?
Two reasons: Some men don't like women tempting them. Some women don't like other women making their significant other think about them that way.
You dress like that around my husband, and you are offending both of us.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote: quote: Sure, it's nice to be considered attractive, but most of the guys I know (and any guy I would consider dating anyway) would find me just as nice-looking in a t-shirt and jeans as in a tube top and a miniskirt.
Um, this isn't about "nice looking", it's about making guys think of sex. If I want to dress to make my husband think about sex, I usually don't wear jeans and a t-shirt.
Sure you are every bit as nice looking. This is why those who *are* low-self-esteem shouldn't feel the need to dress skankily in order to get attention. They are lovely dressed modestly.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
True Bev, but if they are feeding on the "wow, you look hot!" reaction of other men, dressing modestly won't engender that reaction - certainly not to the extent they may be looking for.
And this is really an extension of the "why do we do this?" thread - just wandering in a specific direction.
posted
I think the line is very subjective. But let it be known that if a really attractive girl is dressed in very provocative clothing around my husband, I don't appreciate it.
Color me weird, but I don't enjoy my husband having to fend off sexual thoughts about another woman. They have the right to dress that way, but I don't have to like it.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote: Two reasons: Some men don't like women tempting them. Some women don't like other women making their significant other think about them that way.
You dress like that around my husband, and you are offending both of us.
Beverly, do you really think that Porter is so weak that any one woman dresses scantily will tempt him?
I think this kind of statement denigrates the ability of men, both in terms of self-control, and in their ability to see beauty in more than just a low cut top.
(Edit - ok, that thread moved quickly! But I guess the question still stands)
posted
I don't think it's a matter of being weak, but tempting an instinctive reaction.
I don't know Mr. Head personally, but I think it would take more than a pretty face and attractive clothing to make him cast aside his family and his vows.
But I do think Mr. Head is a human with all the frailties, failings and instincts that accompany being a human.
posted
I'm not trying to suggest that he *would* be tempted.
(The only reason I'm using mph is because Beverly mentioned her own views in the context of her husband. I realise this is personal, and I certainly don't intend any offence).
Maybe to make it more generic - I think men, in general, have more self-restraint and a better of conception of true beauty than the reasoning 'skimpy clothes will tempt them' gives them credit for.
And if that's not true, I think it should be.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Puhlease! It doesn't say anything negative about men that they might have difficulty NOT thinking about sex when some woman is parading around half-naked in front of him.
I lean towards the idea that most women who dress like sluts actually are sluts. Yeah, so a lot of the world, or at least America, dresses that way... well, I think most of America is full of sluts, too. The definition of slut has changed with people saying, "Oh, I've only had sex with 4 guys this year--that's only 1 every 3 months! I'm not a slut!" Since the behavior (of sleeping around) is acceptable and the term slut still is NOT, then we must change the definition of the word.
The tone of this post is related largely to thinking about what Beverly was saying--it would piss me off to have some chick in slutwear parading around MY husband...
posted
Me, I LIKE being tempted. I'm not nearly enough of a wimp to actually give in, but the tempting itself makes for an enjoyable few minutes.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
But I guess the question still stands)
