posted
In case anyone needs some irrelevant credentials-waving I have taken more economics and accounting classes than I can count and I run my own business; evidently it qualifies me to do some things I was previously unaware of, such as tell people that I am pretty much automatically right in internet debates.
I should try it out sometime!
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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For the record, I have no idea whether malanthrop was right or not about the Post Office. I wasn't involved in that part of the discussion, so I don't remember it very well.
Him being right once hardly disproves my idea, though, that malanthrop is an avatar for all the conservative blowhard jackasses we encounter in life and in media who can't confront directly.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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As far as I can tell, malanthrop really honestly thinks that he is 'confronting directly.'
So he's a blowhard jackass, sure, plenty of us are. It's the internet! I would be nothing short of a massive hypocrite if I was mad at him for not being polite. His hallmark, if anything, is that he is representative of a large contingent of Americans, be they diehard conservative or diehard liberal, who really do not possess a suite of critical thinking tools, who bite into ideologically friendly preconceptions and never let go, and who have thought processes rife with fallacy and concrete axiom. He's like every grandparent who won't stop forwarding you chain emails about how Obama is a muslim atheist homosexual and how ron paul and zombie reagan say we should switch to the gold standard and break up the unions. Or, to pick an example from the other side of the coin, those that forward you links from DU about how bush was pretty much behind 9/11 short of actually flying the planes himself while cackling like snidely whiplash. The type that is chronically misinformed and misled, who get their information from shoddy sources, who pick out the answers they want to believe and try to ram them into your skull as Gospel Truth, and who honestly have a genuine misapprehension of their own ability to make sense or have convincing and logical arguments.
Malanthrop (or whoever is behind the alt, assuming this isn't a giant trolling) honestly thinks that he's 'confronting' the issues! the meandering is just a consequence of stuff he does that he does not understand how not to do! He would fare far better in havens for this sort of self-reinforcement, like redstate or freerepublic.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: For the record, I have no idea whether malanthrop was right or not about the Post Office.
I said he was right. That should be good enough.
The post office met the qualification of his challenge. Being unhappy about that turn of events, he made a diversionary remark about the monopolistic nature of the post office. But even on that point he was not correct. They have a monopoly over a type of letter, but not all letters, and in the areas where they do not have a monopoly they often have lower rates than private shipping companies.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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Hey, I was wondering...does anyone besides Malanthrop believe that the cost of health insurance (the full cost, not partially paid for by an employer) could possibly be less than any amount of cell phone, TV, and internet services that a normal person would use?
And of course, there's the issue that if you actually have any health problems, good luck getting a company to sell private insurance to you at any price...
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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My opinions are in no way ucommon. The majority of the people I know, neighbors, coworkers, freinds and family are on the same page as I. It may be uncommon for my opinions to be expressed in this forum and to be sure, there are forums where I would fit right in, as you do here. You don't seek to be challenged or debated you only seek affirmation of your beliefs or challenges in minutia. I've tolerated your insults and ignorance much longer than most would. The difference betwee many of you and I is you are led by emotion with twisted rationalizations. You justify one wrong with another and throw insults when pinned in a corner. I sincerely apologize for disrupting your kumbaya session on hatrack. Continue to pat each other on the back and reaffirm your false logic. You lose on the basis of ideas but you win with wedges and emotion.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:My opinions are in no way ucommon. The majority of the people I know, neighbors, coworkers, freinds and family are on the same page as I. It may be uncommon for my opinions to be expressed in this forum and to be sure, there are forums where I would fit right in, as you do here. You don't seek to be challenged or debated you only seek affirmation of your beliefs or challenges in minutia.
Actually there is far more diversity of opinion here than most of the forums out there.
Furthermore, the question wasn't about your opinions in general but about a specific opinion -- one which has a quantitative answer. That specific question was the belief that health insurance could possibly be cheaper than any common combination of TV, cell phone and internet use.
Like I said that question has a quantitative answer. In the US, the average per capita health care expenditure is $5,711. So the average cost of insurance for a family of 4, should come out to $22,544, or about $1900/month. The cost of private insurance is almost certainly much lower than that (around half I believe) but that is because public insurance (medicare) pays for the oldest and most expensive segment of the population.
In Finland (the OECD country with the cheapest health care), the average annual per capita health care cost is $2,104 or $8,416 for a family of four or about $700/month. Its unreasonable to expect that a family would be able to get reasonable insurance coverage for less than that in any developed country. How families do you know who spend more than $700/month on cell phones, cable and internet? I don't know any.
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You don't have any capacity to recognize ignorance or logic (false or otherwise), or the ability to figure out what differentiates solid reasoning from swiss-cheese rationalizations.
Go back to your bowling league buddies and talk-radio -- places where your monosyllabic grade-school rhetoric is a cut above average. Don't get mad at hatrack because you're not smart enough to see the (crucial) distinctions dozens of people have tried to show you.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: My opinions are in no way ucommon. The majority of the people I know, neighbors, coworkers, freinds and family are on the same page as I. It may be uncommon for my opinions to be expressed in this forum and to be sure, there are forums where I would fit right in, as you do here. You don't seek to be challenged or debated you only seek affirmation of your beliefs or challenges in minutia. I've tolerated your insults and ignorance much longer than most would. The difference betwee many of you and I is you are led by emotion with twisted rationalizations. You justify one wrong with another and throw insults when pinned in a corner. I sincerely apologize for disrupting your kumbaya session on hatrack. Continue to pat each other on the back and reaffirm your false logic. You lose on the basis of ideas but you win with wedges and emotion.
Well, to be fair, there are some fairly nutty conservatives on these boards, and they haven't much (or at all) supported you. Frankly, I think they are embarrassed by you. I would be.
But thank you for throwing in the towel. I was waiting for your declare victory and go home address. Have a happy life somewhere else.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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I am always -- always -- sad when someone decides they aren't a good fit for Hatrack. And I am actually angry with a couple of you for hurrying that along. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I am always -- always -- sad when someone decides they aren't a good fit for Hatrack. And I am actually angry with a couple of you for hurrying that along.
Twice in one day I'm agreeing with Tom *checks for flying pigs*. I wish I could have said this earlier but I felt like I've been saying it a lot as of late and that I'd simply sound like a nag saying it again.
I hope malanthrop reconsiders because I believe this forum can offer alot more than a hostile environment where conservatives are chased away.
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BB, Do you really believe that malanthrop/beleagured was given a hard time because he was conservative?
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I actually think that the initial question is an important one to consider, though. Should there be additional qualifications for the right to vote? Why do we (with some minor exceptions) regard everyone as possessing the right to vote. Those are, to me, very important discussions to have.
I think there should*. Voting is as much a responsibility as it is a right. If you are not fulfilling your responsibility, I don't think you deserve the right.
In most small settings, people who clearly don't know what they are talking about may be humored or taken aside and had things explained to them or some other way of dealing with them, but they are usually not given equal weight to others who are well informed. Should this change in larger situations?
* - I'm not talking from a legal standpoint, but rather one of public perception.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I am always -- always -- sad when someone decides they aren't a good fit for Hatrack. And I am actually angry with a couple of you for hurrying that along.
:: shrug :: malanthrop's an alt. He's a poorly conceived character, and he just exited stage left. Whoever's writing him is unlikely to have been so offended by their character's treatment that they'll go away. They'll just make up a new one. Or maybe they'll have an existing character come back from "vacation".
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Exactly. I hardly feel bad when someone gets angry because the playground suddenly isn't playing fair.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I'm not sure malanthrop is an alt (easily could be, but I know there are real people out there who act that way). Assuming he is real, I think it is unfortunate that he feels driven off, but I don't think there was any other way for this to end. Hopefully he'll learn a bit from the process and approach the next internet debate he stumbles upon and/or initiates with a bit more care.
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Oddly enough, I meant the question literally, not as a rhetorical device. I should have noticed that it would come across as an insult, and I'm sorry.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I am always -- always -- sad when someone decides they aren't a good fit for Hatrack. And I am actually angry with a couple of you for hurrying that along.
You took plenty of potshots at him and you know it =)
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: I'm not sure malanthrop is an alt (easily could be, but I know there are real people out there who act that way).
I find it very difficult to believe that he's anything but. I know a lot of people in real life that are of the type that he was intended to be, but his creator went too far with the character.
quote:Assuming he is real, I think it is unfortunate that he feels driven off
Oh, absolutely.
quote:but I don't think there was any other way for this to end.
I disagree. We've had people here occasionally who were able to hone both their thinking and modify their tone, and who became valued members of the community.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Yeah, I have to agree with Samprimary. I view Tom's claims of sadness with skepticism to the extent I'm almost sure he's joking.
Whether Malanthrop is real or not, I'm not sad nor even do I consider it unfortunate he felt driven off. What I would feel sad for, rather, is that he was the sort of person (real or not) that would feel driven off by receiving scorn for never really answering direct challenges and never exhibiting anything like critical thinking or good faith in a discussion.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: BB, Do you really believe that malanthrop/beleagured was given a hard time because he was conservative?
No, but by that I mean that was not the sole reason. I don't much care if the forum is a better place without him, I do care when conversation degenerates into a pissing match. Yes people made valid points, no not everyone was rude, but even the people making valid points often presented those ideas in such a manner that it would be a bitter pill to swallow. Malanthrop, if he was sincere was a newcomer here. He doesn't know the ins and outs of who thinks what or who talks in what manner. I give Orincoro a bit more benefit of the doubt when he says things are that are rude because I've come to expect that. When I was new, King of Men completely floored me in threads concerning religion.
I do feel that this forum in terms of the American political spectrum is settled middle left. It seems like a person who tends right will find more vocal opposition than somebody who tends left. This dynamic was in part good for me as I joined hatrack with quite a few conservative tendencies that I have since revised. But I've also had to leave threads not because I couldn't stand the heat, but because I don't much care for posturing, accusation, and disdain in my conversations. Malanthrop was not the most gracious person in his posting style, but neither were many of those disagreeing with him.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I do feel that this forum in terms of the American political spectrum is settled middle left. It seems like a person who tends right will find more vocal opposition than somebody who tends left.
This forum (and Ornery) are considerably further right than any - work, church, family, social - other part of my life.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I do feel that this forum in terms of the American political spectrum is settled middle left. It seems like a person who tends right will find more vocal opposition than somebody who tends left.
This forum (and Ornery) are considerably further right than any - work, church, family, social - other part of my life.
Reset your entire life and move out to Utah and I think you will find that is decidedly not the case.
But I suppose that is beside the point. I was talking about a national average. I'm not strongly invested in my statement that this forum is a bit more liberal progressive than the national curve, but that "feels" like it is the case.
Were I to post that I had given up on religion, I think I would have much less conflict than if I were to say I was converting to Christianity from atheism.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:You took plenty of potshots at him and you know it =)
Yes. But if you can't see the difference between my shots and, say, Rakeesh's, remind me to introduce you to my friend "Bloody Obvious."
quote:I view Tom's claims of sadness with skepticism to the extent I'm almost sure he's joking.
No, I'm not joking. Neither do I think mal was an alt. I think he had alts, and am confident he lied quite extensively about his background, but I believe he was otherwise a legitimate voice. I think he could have learned to make his points more effectively if we'd had the patience to train him, instead of dogpiling the guy and going for the cheap insults.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: ... But I suppose that is beside the point. I was talking about a national average. I'm not strongly invested in my statement that this forum is a bit more liberal progressive than the national curve, but that "feels" like it is the case.
Perhaps.
A partial reason for this from my POV is that the forum isn't really just an American "national" forum but is an American "national" forum with a decent dose of foreigners such as myself (and American expats) who do a good job of skewing the balance leftward.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: This forum (and Ornery) are considerably further right than any - work, church, family, social - other part of my life.
This forum (and Sakeriver) are considerably further left than any - work, church, family, socal - other part of my life.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: ... But I suppose that is beside the point. I was talking about a national average. I'm not strongly invested in my statement that this forum is a bit more liberal progressive than the national curve, but that "feels" like it is the case.
Perhaps.
A partial reason for this from my POV is that the forum isn't really just an American "national" forum but is an American "national" forum with a decent dose of foreigners such as myself (and American expats) who do a good job of skewing the balance leftward.
I think this is quite possible, even likely. But even if this forum was as left as Eugene Debs I should still expect that if Sean Hannity showed up on this forum that he by himself would make a fool of himself rather than us goading him on and joining the mess.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I do feel that this forum in terms of the American political spectrum is settled middle left. It seems like a person who tends right will find more vocal opposition than somebody who tends left.
This forum (and Ornery) are considerably further right than any - work, church, family, social - other part of my life.
Reset your entire life and move out to Utah and I think you will find that is decidedly not the case.
But I suppose that is beside the point. I was talking about a national average. I'm not strongly invested in my statement that this forum is a bit more liberal progressive than the national curve, but that "feels" like it is the case.
Right. And if you reset your life and moved to Chicago, your experience would be different. I am not disputing that it feels liberal progressive to you; I am pointing out that it feels fairly conservative to me.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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This forum (and Orney) are so far right they don't really even make it onto the political map in Canada, let alone in any of those four elements of my personal life.
BlackBlade: I'm not sure I understand, probably because I don't really know either of those people.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sean Hannity, somebody who I'd get into a lot of arguments with.
If you don't have time, Eugene Debs was a far left socialist, and Sean Hannity is a media pundit who strongly promotes conservatism.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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This forum is far the left of Ornery. Speaking as a liberal, I'd still say it's slightly to the left of the American Center. Can't say much about the rest of the world.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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That's changed over the years as well. I think it's been getting a little more left as time goes by.
Of course, so has the country. If you look at opinion polls for gay marriage and drug legalization (for instance) you'll see that in the last 10 years the entire nation has taken a big step to the left.
In my completely biased view, I think that's because the religious right in this country is flat out wrong, and that hatrack/America is moving to the left because more people are starting to realize that. Eight years of Bush seems to have helped the trend as well.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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I'm not sure what it means when you say that malanthrope is an alt, but I for one will miss his input here. I have always found his contributions to be well thought out and to express a level of maturity that is refreshing.
If you are reading this, malanthrope, I hope that you continue to participate in the Hatrack community.
Posts: 3 | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:No, I'm not joking. Neither do I think mal was an alt. I think he had alts, and am confident he lied quite extensively about his background, but I believe he was otherwise a legitimate voice.
Well, that makes sense.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:No, I'm not joking. Neither do I think mal was an alt. I think he had alts, and am confident he lied quite extensively about his background, but I believe he was otherwise a legitimate voice.
Well, that makes sense.
I understand "legitimate" in this context to mean "not entirely made up".
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:You took plenty of potshots at him and you know it =)
Yes. But if you can't see the difference between my shots and, say, Rakeesh's, remind me to introduce you to my friend "Bloody Obvious."
That's your alt, right?
and yup but you were taking shots, and people pretty much should have been unless they are complete e-pacifists, which I also respect! but 1. that can't be enforced universally, and 2. anyone who starts arguing as ridiculously as him is essentially setting the stage for their own ridicule. Given his blatant hypocrisy in regards to victimization and whining, he may and this is my first straightforward, direct insult to him suck it and stop wasting our time. My god, I'm so sorry that a potentially long-running career of talking-point gargle, conservative mockery, and thread derailing was cut short.
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I give Orincoro a bit more benefit of the doubt when he says things are that are rude because I've come to expect that. When I was new, King of Men completely floored me in threads concerning religion.
See, I understand the need to moderate according to the person's "newness," but honestly, in this case, we're dealing with someone who needed the metaphorical smack in the face for saying some pretty outrageously stupid things. I also knew right away that he was not at all equipped to advocate his position because he hadn't actually been thinking critically about anything he said. In my opinion, and as you know from experience with me, that kind of thing doesn't deserve a great deal of coddling. I've benefited, I think, from some of the verbal smackings I've gotten here, and I feel much more able now then I did before I joined, to consider the implications of the things I say. The community has also helped me at time to moderate my thinking in life, as happened very recently.
Now, I don't really get how anybody would benefit in any way from having him as their alt, which is why I'm not at all convinced he is one, but as Tom said, he *has* alts. I also know that as much as I disagree with many of the conservatives who post here, many of them are smarter and better equipped for this forum. I think if anyone is a candidate for Mal, it would be "GinaG," for sheer obstinacy and naivete, but the tone struck me as pretty different. I think if Mal is anyone real (which he obviously is to some degree, barring his "character" possibility), he's probably very young and weirdly idealistic. I saw echoed in his writing, some of the rhetorical devices I might have felt comfortable using when I was a little younger. There was also the spelling, which is generally a dead giveaway.
Some of this whole, "new-person bursts in and says a bunch of stupid crap, gets offended, and leaves" thing comes down to an unavoidable human cycle. When I left the US, I was nothing more than a tourist. It has taken and will continue to take a lot of work and patience to establish myself in a new place, and feel increasingly comfortable here. But when I get on the tram in the afternoon, after a long day of work, and am subjected as I was yesterday to three vacuous American girls bitching about the fact that they'd been fined for blackriding 5 minutes earlier, when the concept of paying for transportation is not a foreign one, I am quietly annoyed by it. People partly tire of tourists and foreigners because a part of being one is the willingness to plead stupidity and ignorance in many situations, and the lack of willingness to feel responsible to the place they are visiting. That's natural, and It's not surprising, but I think if we were readily willing to accept it, and not to confront it openly, we as a community would be walked over early and often. There needs to be a good middle ground, where inexperience doesn't get people in trouble or earn the ire of others so quickly, but there also needs to be a way of letting people know that pleading ignorance or stupidity, or showing an obvious lack of homework or disciplined reasoning is not acceptable. Everyone here knows that Mal showed little respect for the discussion when he failed, over and over, to engage fully with any of us on any of the many sweeping arguments he attempted to make. We can't expect the kind of respect or understanding we have for and of each other, but we can ask for more than what was forthcoming.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Now, I don't really get how anybody would benefit in any way from having him as their alt
Imagine you are an established member of a forum and you have a lot of views that you've more or less kept to yourself because you're afraid of the backlash of those views and/or because you get in trouble when you argue (either for consistently making bad points, or for being caustic and getting into slugfests).
You would make a smurf alt to let fly your true colors, a new front of maximal anonymity.
Smurf alts are very, very bad. As a mod I am under strict orders to ban every one discovered and reveal the offending smurfer. Altoholics are notorious for hiding behind alts as an attempt for repercussion-free, antagonistic fight-picking in debates. You can pick fights and if opprobrium or bans result from it the idea is that it keeps your main 'safe' from the repercussions of how your alt acted. Often times these same people resort to using their alts to back each other up and create 'popular support'
Hilarious, sure, but disruptive.
I am not saying that the jury's out on whether malanthrop was an alt (though it bears all the hallmarks of Obvious Alt Is Obvious) but just explaining the motivations behind altoholism and smurfing and ... well, why it's considered stupid to not enforce anti-smurf methods.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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I wish I knew the history behind why smurf became the popular term for, well, a smurf. My best guess is because some people were notorious for creating new personas to have credibility in new discussions Papa Smurf makes a Handy Smurf to talk with authority in home remodeling affairs, a Grouchy Smurf for fronting attacks against people he doesn't like, an Iraq War Vet Smurf to talk with an I Was There authority about the morality of Bush's war policy, etc .. they all wore different veneer but clever folk would note the prevalent fact that all of them were pretty much the same short blue guy.
By the by, the technique wherein someone makes an alt that poses as an active duty soldier is a surprisingly common tactic, favored by chickenhawks (or was it chicken****s?) and legitimately one of the most fantastically repulsive things I ever see posters do.
Woe betide any who I find smurfing as a soldier/vet to post in war or politics topics.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Sorry, I've been working a lot lately. No time to protest during the day like unemployed liberals screaming for government handouts. Here's a few stats for you out there who think my views are marginal and on the fringes of society. Still waiting for an example of a government program that has met budget and is succesful.
Fox News Channel is the highest rated Cable News Channel with CNN in 2nd place
Oreilly #1 for 100 months
Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto by Mak Levin #1 NY Times, #1 Amazon, #1 Borders Books
76.5% (159 million) of Americans identify themselves as Christian
Thirty-eight percent of Americans report having a gun in their homes, and another 2% say they have a gun elsewhere on their properties (like in a garage, barn, or car). The percentage of Americans reporting they have a gun in their homes has hovered around the 40% mark since 2000.
Sixty percent, including 62 percent of independents and 46 percent of Republicans, said they would be willing to pay more in taxes. Half said they would be willing to pay as much as $500 a year more. Universal Health Care
-- Approval of Congress has dipped below 20% for only the fourth time in the 34 years Gallup has asked Americans to rate the job Congress is doing. Today's 18% score, based on a May 8-11 Gallup Poll, matches the record lows Gallup recorded in August 2007 and March 1992 .May 14 2008
Measuring Their Performance Support for a service does not necessarily mean that it gets high ratings for its performance. In an earlier survey conducted online among 1,833 adults by Harris Interactive between October 11 and 17, 2005, far fewer people gave most services high ratings. For example: Medicaid which enjoys the support of 71 percent of all adults is rated 73 percent negative, 27 percent positive. Federal aid to public schools which is supported by 69 percent of adults is rated 74 percent negative, 26 percent positive. Social Security, which enjoys very strong support (76%) is rated 73 percent negative, 27 percent negative. Medicare, also a very popular service (76% support) is rated 73 percent negative, 27 percent positive. All of the nine services rated in October (the list did not include five of the services included in the November survey), received more negative than positive ratings. Those which had the most positive ratings by the public are: defense (45% positive), foreign aid (44%), and food stamps (33%).
For all of his hopes about bipartisanship, Barack Obama has the most polarized early job approval ratings of any president in the past four decades. The 61-point partisan gap in opinions about Obama's job performance is the result of a combination of high Democratic ratings for the president -- 88% job approval among Democrats -- and relatively low approval ratings among Republicans (27%). Pew Research Center
Top Radio Programs United States: #1 Rush #2 Morning Edition #3 All Things Considered #4 Sean Hannity #5 Michael Savage #6 Dr Laura #7 Glenn Beck #8 Laura Ingraham #9 Mark Levin #10 Dave Ramsey
Affirmative Action Regardless of the wording, all polling on affirmative action shows blacks overwhelmingly support it. In the latest Gallup Poll, 72% of blacks say they favor affirmative action programs, while only 21% are opposed. Among whites, the story is different. Whites are much more divided, with opponents outnumbering supporters by a 49% to 44% margin. The results for both whites and blacks have been consistent over time. Gallup
Immigration: The general public overwhelmingly favors immigration reform. Poll after poll shows that Americans want well-enforced, sensible, and sustainable immigration laws.
89% of Americans think illegal immigration into the U.S. is a problem (30% "extremely serious," 33% "very serious," and 26% "somewhat serious." (Time Magazine, Jan. 2006) 82% think that not enough is being done along the borders to keep illegal immigrants from crossing into the country. (New York Times/CBS May 2007) 68% feel that the number of immigrants who cross the border, whether legal or illegal is too high. (Polling Company, Sept. 2006) 62% oppose making it easier for illegal immigrants to become citizens of America. (Quinnipiac Univ., Feb. 2006) These are only a few examples of the many statistics demonstrating that Americans want lower immigration, greater enforcement, and more commitment to making immigration work in the best interests of the nation.
MOST RECENT NATIONAL POLLS
A Rasmussen Report Poll conducted November 5, 2008 of 1,000 likely voters asked: "Is the government doing enough to secure the border?"
79% responded "no," it is not doing enough. 10% responded "yes." It also asked, "Which is more important: securing the border or legalizing undocumented workers?"
65% responded that gaining control of the border is more important. 26% responded that legalization is more important. Rasmussen Report Poll conducted from October 24-25th of 800 likely voters found that:
51% opposed the DREAM Act (a form of amnesty for former and present illegal alien students) concept 68% believe the passage of the bill would encourage more illegal immigration in the future. 71% believe that illegal immigrants should not qualify for in-state tuition rates at colleges and universities. 77 % oppose making drivers' licenses available to illegal immigrants
#1 Music Genre in the United States, Country Music.
YOU'RE BLOGGERS, you don't represent the majority although you may in these rooms.
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