posted
I am a couple of pages behind in keeping up with the Nate and Jamie thread, just so you know. I decided after reading this thread that I would reply without reading the other. So, don't take offense where none is intended.
I really love the title of Nate's thread. It is Nate and Jamie who are responsible for making Nate and Jamie's choices, and no one else's. It is me who gets to decide things about my life. It is you who gets to decide things about yours.
What Nate and Jamie are doing is honorable. People get married. Some sooner than later, for whatever reasons. It is not up to anyone in an online forum, no matter how good friends they consider themselves, to judge anyone's decision to get married.
An announcement of impending marriage is a thing to rejoice over, not to criticize. It is rude and tactless to try to convince two perfectly nice people who are of legal age and in love, that their marriage will be a mistake, or that they should have chosen a different line of action. I think this comes from our own life's experiences. By stating your objections to someone's happy announcement, you are really exposing your own experience with regret and bad choices.
The reaction driven by love and concern is congratulations, and support. No less.
If the shoe fits....
Posts: 1379 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:I think this comes from our own life's experiences. By stating your objections to someone's happy announcement, you are really exposing your own experience with regret and bad choices.
Well, of course. Did you think this was some debate-killing insight?
People may certainly want to prevent their friends from having the same regrets they do.
Or people may regret not having tried to stop somebody from making a mistake a time in the past when it did not turn out well.
Their attempts may or may not be misguided, but I haven't seen malice.
I actually am very much appreciative of everyone who has given me and Jamie advice, or voiced their concerns, both now and in the engagement part of it. I feel very fortunate to have friends who can impart of thier wisdom to me.
I feel very fortunate also, to be able to share my life with good people.
If anyone is to give me more critisism than Scott R (just to further the example), let me just say that I understand why, and I am not offended by that. Again, thank you all for the words. Posts: 530 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Also I would like to chime in on Space Opera's behalf about something that was discussed...if you want to use that term...before.
When SO mentioned marriage and kids, the point wasn't that she was against large families, or that she should criticize anyones family...in fact her point as I saw it was that such critisims were not in good taste because family size is a personal decision.
Much like choosing to get married.
Some people might have an objection to large families, and that is fine...they are free to not have one of their own. What isn't ok is if they they mention their dislike of large families (keep in mind that you can substitute anything personal for large families here) to anyone who is considering having another child.
Concerns were raised before, and Jamie and Nate have decided to go forward despite them. I think that people have pretty much said all that can be said here about it, and that if either one of them were asking for advice then the person raising objections would have a point.
But at this point they are just looking to celebrate, and I think that Nate's first post made that clear.
But SO got mugged a bit for making a point...and that point wasn't a point against large families, or against having children. It was against anyone interfering with personal decisions between a man and a woman.....whether that choice is a marriage partner or a decision to have umpteen children.
quote:Scott R. is having his fourth child - has anyone grilled him
We're not sure if it's a boy or a girl yet, but you can be sure that if we decide to eat the child, we will grill him. Or her. Whatever. I've got this great marinade I've been dying to try out.
Oh. . . wait. Did you mean grill ME?
That's disgusting. I'm an ADULT! You don't grill ADULTS.
posted
Cannibal slow-stews a priest over a low flame. Serves it to his friend, who scowls at him.
"Hey! That doesn't taste right ... . . . . . . . . . . . . ... oh, I see your problem. Long brown robe with a hood, right? That was a friar."
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
In all fairness, Anne Kate, you did stop speaking to someone once because you disapproved of the way they handled a stray cat. So don't pretend that you don't do it, yourself. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I don't know mack and T. If I did know them, through Real Life interaction, I might voice my concerns.
But I don't. Alas. So, I trust that they know what's best for them, and what God wants of them. And I offer my congratulations-- they seem to sincerely believe that what they are doing is the Right Thing.
And I have nothing in my hands that says anything contrary.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:I feel irratated towards people who have kids before they are ready or have enough money, but mainly because I am concerned about the kids.
See this is where I have a problem with anyone making a judgment about someone else's decision. Someone easily, and probally did, look at my dh and I when we were pg with our first and said "They are so not ready, they have no money" etc etc. It bothers me that people think they can look at a situation that they are not intimately familiar with (or placed in jurisdiction over such a a judge or court advocate or something like that) and make a judgment as to readiness or financial responsibility. If we waited until we could afford to have kids we would still have no children. Do my kids suffer and live in squalor? No. We don't live in a fancy house, we don't drive nice cars, we shop at thrift stores and live on hand me downs a lot of the time. But those things are not important. They are fed, clothed, housed and more importantly loved.
I've just never understood why we as human beings feel the need to judge someone's decision to have children, get married etc etc.
(This was NOT a direct reply to Syn... her post was just the easiest to quote so please don't jump on me)
Posts: 1132 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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posted
"I've just never understood why we as human beings feel the need to judge someone's decision to have children, get married etc etc."
The alternative is to not judge anyone's decisions. How comfortable are you with drug abuse, abortion, and the sexual revolution?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I agree Wendy, especially because "they don't have enough money" in the United States normally means "they can't get a widescreen TV and surrond sound in a big, over-morgated house and still have kids". It like they're either assuming that you're going to try and do it anyways and then the kid will suffer when you can't get toothpaste because you wanted a new Jaguar instead, or they think that not having all of life's modern conviences is depriving the child of things that are actually important instead of, well, convientent.
Now I know no one is actually thinking this, especially you Hatrackers who've said this, but think of your own life, don't you think there's areas of materialism you could cut back on that would save money? Cheaper food, different transportation, smaller apartment, no TV, no cable, wait a little longer to replace things that aren't working to their full potential. I'm not saying it's a moral imparitive for someone to do this, I'm saying for almost everone living in the US, it's more than possible to cut back enough to afford taking care of a child. Third world nations still manage to have kids, and I don't think they would ever meet any of these qualifications for "rich enough" when they have them.
quote:The alternative is to not judge anyone's decisions. How comfortable are you with drug abuse, abortion, and the sexual revolution?
I'm pretty comfortable with that last one since, depending on which revolution you're talking about, it allowed girls to wear jeans, and Annie looks darn sexy in jeans.
posted
You know, we very nearly had a whole thread in which Hobbes posted without commenting on how sexy Annie is. Thank God; disaster was averted! Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
My mind is, sadly, too dirty for Hobbes' last post. Someone else is going to have to read it.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
It was a perfectly funny, perfectly clean joke about Star Trek TOS, and there was at no point, sex involved with the joke. Shame Tom Davidson, shame.
posted
I would like to say that I feel I've been on exceptionally good behavior ever since Christy started posting by not indulging in my shameless whoring for Tom's attention. I totally had a response for ElJay's post, and I totally didn't post it.
posted
Hobbes and Wendybird, I have to disagree somewhat about the money and children issue. I grew up with no money and it was rough. I never want my children to go through that - I don't want them to worry about where the money for rent and electricity and food will come from and I don't want them to be the scholarship kids or poor relations. No, there isn't any shame in it and I'm not ashamed of my upbringing, but I don't want it for my children.
Also, the cost of raising children is skyrocketing. It's not just keeping them fed and clothed. Day care is unbelievably expensive, as are doctor and dentist bills. Even extracurricular activities add up - soccer uniforms and equipment and league fees and snack money can really make a dent in your wallet.
For me personally, I feel that I owe certain things to my children. I plan to pay for their entire education, through graduate school, to whichever school they choose. I feel that I have a duty to nurture their interests, which includes things like musical instruments, specialized summer programs, and sporting equipment. And I feel that they should have a full-time mother, which is why I am not going to work. Understand that this is what I feel is right for my future children specifically - I am not saying that anyone is a bad parent or person if they don't agree with me.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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If you really want us to recognize you, Ralphie, you're going to have to stop being so good all the time. It's better than a fake nose and a moustache.
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"I don't want them to be the scholarship kids or poor relations."
While I sympathize with this, I thought about it for a second and realized that most of the people I could tolerate in college were scholarship kids, and most of the family I like are our poorer relations.
posted
Exactly Mrs. M, I have no problem with you position, in the sense that I know you're doing what you think is best for you children, and Wendybird's position (and mine) is that everyone should do what they think is best for their children, and at least when it comes to issues like how much money you should have when having kids, judging the what other people think is best is just plain a bad idea.
quote: If you really want us to recognize you, Ralphie, you're going to have to stop being so good all the time. It's better than a fake nose and a moustache.
So, what you're saying is... When I'm good, I'm good. But when I'm bad, I'm even better?
I really believe that Mae West hid all the answers to the mysteries of life on a little piece of paper within her cleavage.
Erik - What you said sounds smart and made my brains hurt.
ElJay - You almost make me want to come back to Hatrack full-time. We would have blast, you and I.
posted
Ooh! I like this thread de-railment. Like Hobbes, I think most Americans can afford to cut some stuff out. I'm always amazed at how much we as a country spend on things that don't really matter. I see as I get older that material things have gotten much less important to me. But everyone just seems to want "more." A friend of mine and her husband just built a 3200 square foot home. They have no children, it's just them and a dog. Who needs that much space?
I've really been trying to move away from that in the last several years. Right now I drive a car that's got over 100,000 miles and faux wood interior. We don't have cable because I don't see the sense in paying over $30 a month to watch TV. But we still have very nice things and live in a wonderful house. Our decisions to let go of some of the "luxuries" have allowed me to stay home full time and plan for a third child.
What's really funny is that my husband makes darn good money. We don't have to sweat the bills at all, but we have had to make choices. And I'd much rather live in a less than 3000 square foot house and drive an older car in exchange for the time we get as a family.
quote: You've been around quite a bit in the last few days.
I thought you were back.
Kinda-sorta. I have some free time right now, and I've decided to squander it sitting around on my buttocks, posting and eating Cheetos.
You know, business as usual. But I'll probably start getting really busy again soon, so I can't say that I'm "back". If'n you take my meanin'.
Posts: 7600 | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
SO, you bring up a good point - money vs. quality of life and family time. I walked away from very lucrative jobs because I wouldn't see Andrew for days at a time. Everyone always tells me that I should get Andrew to go back into law, but I ignore them. I would rather have a husband who is happy in his job and has time to spend with his family than one who is miserable and never around. Even if it means that I don't have as many shoes or bags as I want.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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