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Author Topic: Ender Toons
String
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This may be a little off subject, but I was wondering if anybody out there thinks Enders game would make an excellent anime maxi series. It has many advantages over a live action film.

1)Length. A maxi series could contain Enders whole story, and even roll Enders Shadow into it easily. You would have no hollywood editors telling you to cut important parts.

2) sorry I have many more reasons but I have to be getting to work, [Grumble] see you tomorrow.

-String.

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pwiscombe
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Disadvantages:
1) No one (virtually) would see it.

2) I'm sure there are more, but that is enough for me.

(I'm sure that both anime fans out there will disagree)

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DarkWizard
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Advantage
1) The battle room would be way easier
2)thats all i got too

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mr_porteiro_head
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There are a lot of stories that I think would work well with that format. I used to hope that Jordan's Randland would be done that way. But that was back when he appeard to have a good story to tell. [Frown]
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T.J.
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it wouldn't make a good maxi series but a Taken (sci fi miniseries) style mini series would be pretty cool then you could do either live action regular cartoon, anime, computer generated toon. its a better alternative to the movie but i like the movie i dea especially since the X-men guys will be on it
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Kabederlin
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Actually I like the idea but maybe because I'm an anime fan. And as much as I hate to say it I kinda don't want Ender's Game to become a major hollywood motion picture. I mean I know it's one of the most celebrated Sci-Fi novels ever but thats still noyl noticed by sci-fi readers. If it were a movie everyone would know about Ender's Game and everyone would see it and I dunno... I don't think it'd have the same meaning if it was a franchise... Just my thoughts though.
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digging_holes
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I have a mental block when it comes to anime. No matter how good a particular anime film is, it always reminds me of Astro Boy and Sailor Moon. Even Akira and the Animatrix, both of which I loved, made me think of that.
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hatrack_yan
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i think that the biggest downside of the enders game holly wood movie will be the merchandising. after the movie, when you go to a book store to pick up an orson scott card book, all you'll see are the actors faces on the covers of the ender novels. look at the lord of the rings. if you buy any book having anythin to do with middle earth it has orlando bloom's or viggo mortensen's face on it.
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MidnightBlue
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quote:
if you buy any book having anythin to do with middle earth it has orlando bloom's or viggo mortensen's face on it.
You say that like it's a bad thing! [Wink] [Big Grin] Seriously though, I don't like the idea of EG being anime. To me, anything that's animated in any way seems way less serious than anything live action, whether that's the case or not. That means more kids and less adults would end up seeing the movie, which wouldn't be a bad thing except that it will probably have to be rated at least PG, probably PG-13. Yeah, it might be "easier" to make it anime, but it'd be more likely to be taken seriously if it's live-action.

[ April 11, 2004, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: MidnightBlue ]

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Kabederlin
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As an anime fan let me tell you, there are a lot of serious animes out there. The stuff they show on TV and Cartoon Network is not really good anime. Good Anime is the stuff you have to actually get out and buy at Anime COnventions and whatnot. Im a pretty big fan of Anime because of the fact you can put more work into the stoy and characters than into making it look good. You go and watch an anime film not expecting to see good graphics and props. You expect to see a good series or movie.
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Gottmorder
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Whoa whoa, the anime on Cartoon Network bad? I'm not sure about the daytime anime, but the Adult Swim stuff is pretty damn good.

Cowboy Bebop
Big O
FLCL
Witch Hunter Robin

Those are generally accepted to be pretty quality anime. As for the conventions, I'm not sure, but I'll find out this year when I go to Otakon.

As for Ender's Game, it could go either way. If they can make it a good anime (like Cowboy Bebop) then I'll be quite satisfied.

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Kabederlin
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Thjats not really hardcore anime though... It's anime that would atract an american audience. usually full of action and humor... Don't get me wrong I like Adult Swim, it's just not hardcore anime...
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mr_porteiro_head
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I understand the reluctance to have EG turned into a real hollywood production. I felt the same way about Tolkien. Tolkien was always my little secret that I shared with geeks around the world, but not understood by the unwashed masses. Now *everybody* thinks Tolkien is cool, but but have not read their books. It's kinda a bummer. But then again, I got to see some wonderful adaptations of those books. That's a good thing.

So I guess the perfect combination would have been a top-notch anime series so that I would get to see it, but it would never penetrate into the general public.

Yes. The more I think of it, the more I think that EG should be done as an anime series, because that will keep the unwashed masses from watching it. [Evil]

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lcarus
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[ROFL] @ pwiscombe
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Xaposert
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I think Ender's Game would make a good animated feature, but I think it's too simple of a story to be drawn out into a series. I don't see how one well-made feature-length movie couldn't do justice to it.

I think the Speaker books might make a good series, though. They are much more complex and multi-pronged.

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Kabederlin
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One of the best Animes Ive ever watched was only 12 episodes long... And I'm glad someone can understand me on that aspect, porteiro

[ April 12, 2004, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Kabederlin ]

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String
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Hello again,

More reasons.

2) casting will be virtually impossible in a live action movie. Most of the actors will have to children, and i can only think of about three well known child actors that dont make me sick with cuteness. With an anime you would only need to cast good voice actors.

3)though it wouldnt make as much money on debut as a big screen movie, you could spread the series over about 12-15 episodes, which translates into 3-5 dvds.

4)As for no one seeing it, I disagree, I think those people that want to see an ender movie would rush to stores to buy the anime just because enders name is on it.

enough with the list format already,my brain is hurting. hehehe.

an anime would preserve the original atmosphere of the book easily, and give the writers more freedom to squeeze everylast scene.
Censorship is also an issue in Hollywood movies, there is no way that Ender could bust Bonzo's head without some cheesy cut-to-the-stretcher scene (this movie aint gonna be rated R). Ender chewing on himself on Eros because of his nightmares would be left out. Naked nine year old Petra (though i dont know why it was there in the first place... dont question the master I guess. [Hail] ) would be left out. All of this and more could be left in the anime. Vivid imagary is one of Enders Game's strong points, and it could be realized much closer to the original if its in anime format.
The Buggers would look like crap in a movie, and everyone would call it a starship troopers rip off. Cant you just see some power ranger looking monster on the battle school vids Ender watches (which would probably get left out)?
An anime would be perfect for atmosphere, coninuity and imagry, it would solve casting problems as the depth of each character could be perfectly realized with close colaboration (sp) with OSC and the animation team. OSC could do most of the writing himself, which would be much better than the X-men team.

X-men was entertaining, but not memorable, and as far continuity and faithfullness to the books, it was far from perfect. Is that the kind of team you want on an Ender movie? Do you want to see a love interest suddenly appear betwean Ender and Petra? Want to see Peter and Valentine left out entirely? Want to see bad child actors ruin the genieus of the characters they play? Me neither,but it happens all the time with hollywood movies. In an anime, Enders formula would not be broken, remixed, shaken, stired and otherwise turned into regurgitated hollywood crap.

I think kabederlin expresses best what we all fear.

"... as much as I hate to say it I kinda don't want Ender's Game to become a major hollywood motion picture. I mean I know it's one of the most celebrated Sci-Fi novels ever but thats still only noticed by sci-fi readers. If it were a movie, everyone would know about Ender's Game and everyone would see it, and I dunno... I don't think it'd have the same meaning if it was a franchise..."

WHEW.... That was rant hehehe. im not usualy so arguementitve.

see you later
-string.

[ April 12, 2004, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: String ]

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Kabederlin
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Good spoints string. Though I think we have little power to use in swaying our concerns about the Ender's Game movie. As much as I wanna believe Card is doing this just to spread the love of Ender's Game, money is a large factor and an animated version wouldn't bring in the same revnue.
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I wield the H@MM35
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I have to agree with some of the points made earlier. Enders game was allways something that I shared with other geeks. Until I reached high school, I could not find ANYONE who had read any of the books or even Heard of OSC. Enders game and the OSC books were allways my little books to read and analyze and ponder over. Now this might be because i first read Enders Game in fourth grade and read it in two days...
And it might be because my family has intelegence compariable to those found in Enders game (It just skipped my parents, that's all. I am Fifeteen, a freshman in high school. the movie should at least contain a mentien saying that while EG might become a franchise, that there were the geeks and freaks who had read it before. !!!OSC PLEASE READ THIS!!!! GEEKS AND (*freaks like me*) REQUIRE MENTIEN SO THAT THE PUBLIC DOESN'T THINK THEY KNOW EVERYTHING! REALEASING THIS MOVIE DMORLIZES US TO A DEGREE!
other than that, full steam ahead.

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romanylass
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I like the idea of EG not being a franchise. Just think of it; Ender Bean and Petra dolls, Battle School Lego set, Ender's Game cookies, sheesh. Ilike the anime idea.
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DarkWizard
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Just thought of one good book turned into a bad movie Timeline. The book was much better and the movie entirely lost he interesting parts of the plot

Anyways it'll probably be at least good if not great.

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Kabederlin
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Well... Weild... Heh.

I've aways treated Ender's Game like well... almost like my bible. I live by it. When I have a problem I turn to Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead or some other of Card's books. Mostly it all comes to ENder's Game though.

Don't get me wrong I love the idea of spreading Card's literature across the globe, but in the form of a franchise... I can't see that. I don't want that. To have Ender's Game be compared on the News to Star Wars Episode III or Resident Evil 2 or some other movie would just bring tears to my eyes. This is the book we've all grown to accept as just another piece of us.

When I first heard of the movie I thought "Wow! That's awesome!" Then I remembered why I loved Ender's Game and I knew then that no matter how big they created the movie and no matter how many dollars they put into it or how good it was, it would ruin the book. If I saw a little kid walking around with an Ender's Game t-shirt on with a picture of Jake Loyd or some other child actor I'd probably dive off a cliff.

This is our hopes, our dreams, our pasts, our futures. How can anyone think of putting that in theatres and not do it just because of the money?

In closing I just wanna say... Make your movie Card. I support you fully because I still respect you regardless. It is quite possible you don't know the feelings ofthe followers of this book. So make your movie. But when the world is crawling with Ender and Bean dolls and bugger action figures, remember we were here first. We made this movie possible...

[ April 13, 2004, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: Kabederlin ]

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Telperion the Silver
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I think it's a great idea!
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Kamisaki
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First of all, I don't think you guys are giving enough credit to OSC. Were you aware that he has had several offers to do an Ender's Game movie over the years but he rejected them because he didn't have confidence they would make a good enough movie? You know that OSC himself wrote the preliminary screenplay for this movie, right? Have some faith. It is possible to make a successful book to movie translation, but it also requires changes. They're two different media, and require different presentations. Now to respond to String's assertions. Before I do, though, I have to say that Ender's Game might very well make a good anime, but that in itself is not a reason to avoid doing a movie as well. The dual approach worked alright for the Matrix.
quote:
1)Length. A maxi series could contain Enders whole story, and even roll Enders Shadow into it easily. You would have no hollywood editors telling you to cut important parts.
No argument here, except what I said before. We can still do a movie.
quote:
2) casting will be virtually impossible in a live action movie. Most of the actors will have to children, and i can only think of about three well known child actors that dont make me sick with cuteness. With an anime you would only need to cast good voice actors.
OSC has already said that the child actors will be relative unknowns. Other than that you just have to take it on faith.
quote:
3)though it wouldnt make as much money on debut as a big screen movie, you could spread the series over about 12-15 episodes, which translates into 3-5 dvds.
Still a lot smaller audience.
quote:
4)As for no one seeing it, I disagree, I think those people that want to see an ender movie would rush to stores to buy the anime just because enders name is on it.
Yes, the people who would see the movie just because it has Ender's name on it would buy the anime too, but that's only a small fraction of the audience that would see a well-done movie. If the movie is good, then most of the people who see it will never have heard of Ender before. They'll see it because it's a good movie.

And to everybody who doesn't want the movie to be made because it will cease to be exclusively within the domain of geekdom, I just have this to say: grow up! (and I mean that in the nicest possible way [Smile] ) Seriously, though, it's a pretty selfish attitude to have. If you love Ender's Game so much, why don't you want other people to be exposed to it as well? Having the movie made will not in any way invalidate the book. It will still be there and we can still go back to read it whenever we want. This quote
quote:
I don't think it'd have the same meaning if it was a franchise...
is correct only if you let it be. The book will still have exactly the same meaning as it always did unless you fail to realize that the movie and the book are two completely different things. They have to be. Did the absence of the Scouring of the Shire in the LOTR movie erase that part from the book? Of course not. There were different emphases, but both valid stories. Even if the EG movie completely sucks, it will not ruin the book at all. The book is what it is and nothing can ever change that (well, unless MR. Card decides to go back and rewrite it like he did with Treason, but that's not too likely).

[ April 13, 2004, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Kamisaki ]

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String
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An anime would be great, but to be honest ill go see the movie buy the dvd and get an Ender doll for my son. If anyone can pull off a book to movie its Orson. I just hope he stays close to it, and doesnt let it become crap.

Kamisaki may be right about the required changes for the medium, and an anime would allow for less changes, but.... I guess I like EG the way it is, and I dont want to see it changed, it wont be the same. For now ill just put my faith in Orson, and hope for the best.

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Kabederlin
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I understand Card's reasons and I support him in his actions. I said clearly I still respect Card because he gave us the book in the first place. But if your gonna sit there and tell me that making this movie isnt about the money then you're seriously mistaken.

As for faith, I have put faith in Card. My faith has never wained. Card's script will probably be the best choice and I'll go see the movie along with all my friends and we'll enjoy it because it's the book we've known and loved half our lives. And we'll probably all buy the special edition DVD and maybe two so we can keep one in it's wrapping and pass it down to our children along with our other Card collectors items (signed books and stuff). We'll do all of this because we have faith in Card. I don;t know what I said that would make you believe that after eight uyears of reading his books, I wouldn;t have faith in him to pull this off. I was simply stating that the movie is going to change a lot and personally I'd prefer the movie to not be made.

But I'm just a grunt.

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Kamisaki
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quote:
But if your gonna sit there and tell me that making this movie isnt about the money then you're seriously mistaken.
When did I say money was not involved? [Confused]

Obviously money is a factor in this, but if you're saying it's the only factor involved then I think you're the one that's mistaken. I think one of OSC's main motivations is just to see a good movie made out of his ideas.

But in the end both of our positions are just speculation. You could be 100% right, the only way we'd really know is to ask OSC himself.
quote:
I was simply stating that the movie is going to change a lot and personally I'd prefer the movie to not be made.
I don't really understand this. If you really think that the movie will change things for you for the worse, then just don't go see it. If you'd really rather it not be made, why are you going to see it anyway? How does it affect you what other people think of the book/movie? I'm confused as to why you hold your position.
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Telperion the Silver
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I would like movie and mini-series anime. [Smile]
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Kamisaki
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Personally, I'm all for making any version of EG that they can, as long as it's done well in the format they choose. I don't really watch much anime, but if they made EG I'd probably buy it.
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T.J.
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WAIT WE HAVE HEARD FROM ME YET, THE CRAZY GUY WITH THE BOMB STRAPED ON TO ME (Simpsons quote)

well you could do both or instead of the plan now (a mix of EG and ES) your could do one in movie and one on anime cause then they both get more screen time hehe
BOOOOOOOM ..................oops that was close that was in my garage (comic relief for this heated topic)

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mr_porteiro_head
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*Thinks back to the good old days before the movies when talking about how much you liked Legolas would have no sexual overtones*

Yeah, I'm selfish. I'm bummed that the unwashed masses have invaded my beautiful park.

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Noemon
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Why is that Porter? It's an attitude that I find a bit puzzling. I'd love to know your thoughts on it.
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mr_porteiro_head
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Well, it's like I said before, but I'll share my feelings some more.

Tolkien has a special place in my heart. I had a difficult time in high school (who didn't?), and middle-earth was a refuge for me. I read LotR several times in high school.

I didn't share much Tolkien with others, though not because of lack of trying. Most friends knew of my passion for Tolkien, but never bothered to read it themselves. But there were a few that were very close to me that understood how much it meant to me. It was a very personal thing to share.

And since then, whenever I saw somebody make a Tolkien reference, it created an instant bond of sorts. Not necessarily a strong one, but I knew that I had something in common with this person.

But now, if you mention Tolkien or LotR, most people that respond haven't even read The Hobbit, let alone LotR. Some girl will pipe up about how yummy Orlando or Viggo are. Somebod else will talk about the great CG special effects, and another will talk about the cool battle scenes.

[Cry]

It's as though I had this special treat that nobody knew about but that my mother always used to make for me. I would share it with my friends, and it would be our special thing.

But then McDonald's adds it too it's menu. It's mostly the same, but it's not the same thing. It becomes popular the world over, and any time I mention this treat my mother made, everybody *thinks* they know what I'm talking about, because they are familiar with McDonald's version.

[Cry]

Does this make sense? Not really. It's an emotion reaction, and it stems from the fact that I'm a snob. [No No] It's not that I *think* it's good to be a snob, but when I am very honest with myself, I realize that I am.

All of that said, I loved the movies. [Big Grin]

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Noemon
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Interesting. Thanks for expanding on that.

I guess that with me, I've always valued the books I like for the stories that they tell. I generally haven't gotten any feeling of group membership from my tastes in books, so it doesn't bother me at all when the stories in those books become more widely dissiminated. It's for this same reason that I really don't mind when a book based movie falls short of the greatness of the book upon which it was based. It doesn't take anything away from the original, or me. I may regret that the movie wasn't as good as it might have been, but I don't feel like anything has been damaged.

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mr_porteiro_head
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I flip-flop on this "issue". On this board, I have people to not worry about the EG movie, because it cannot destroy one word from the books.

Which is good to remember. The books are always there for me. [Smile]

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I wield the H@MM35
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I am struck by insperation
Due to the number of gamers-geeks-other outcasts that have read ENders game, loved it, had it become part of ourselves, and due to the fact that it will become, likely, a HUGE franchise, they should make T-shirts saying something to the effect of "I loved Enders Game while those actors were still in diapers." and have it avalible until a year before the move comes out. THat way it acknolages those of us who have read Enders game repeatedly since whenever. I first read the book in fourht grade, and it will allways be apart of me, no matter how many people take it to be a part of a fad.

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Kabederlin
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[ROFL] Thats a funny idea
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Kamisaki
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Funny and good. We should petition the Cards to put that up in the Hatrack River Store.
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Kabederlin
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As well as the ever so cliched "I read Ender's Game and all I got was this stupid T-Shirt!" shirt...
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Altáriël of Dorthonion
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I think an feature would do for Ender's Game, a series for Speaker for the Dead, and All the others after that would be OVA's. As for the parallels for Bean, they'd be OVA's too. I love anime, but I believe only the best would do to make this, Miyazaki. If it was made, All Japan would know about OSC, he'd be more international. The only thing I dread would be bad english dubbing. That would totally kill it. [Wink]
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Boothby171
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Toons!

Gamez!

Sawamanduh Awmy!

Chawectaz!

Down-Woads!

Battew Wooms!

E-Maiw!

I vote for a full-up Homestarrunner cartoon of Ender's Game!

Yes! Ender's Game in FLASH!

To be followed by Piwates of de Cawwibean! ("But why iz de wum gon?")

[ April 20, 2004, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: ssywak ]

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Altáriël of Dorthonion
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That would be the ultimate gift to fans of Strong Bad AND Ender. But, I'm not sure the brother Chaps might want to... Thats an AWSOME idea though.

Another would be to have an online Ender's Game comic. I'm pretty talented at drawing, so I think that I might start one. It would be B&W thought, I don't have enough time to colour every single one in photo shop...
Only covers would be in color. yes, thats another brilliant Idea...but only if carried out correctly. [Razz]

[ April 21, 2004, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Altįriėl of Dorthonion ]

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String
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here ya go.
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