I'm a pretty big Card fan, and a huge fan of the Enderverse. Naturally I'm really looking forward to "Shadow of the Giant". It certainly isn't our place to give suggestions to the mastermind behind such a wonderful series, but I'm curious, what are you hoping to see occur in the final Shadow book?
Personally? I'm glad you asked!
1. I would love to see the book end with the final conversation between Peter and Ender that is mentioned in Ender's game. It would be a nice way to tie the two series together. Yeah, I know Peter is around 80 when this occurs but it would be an interesting epilogue. It would be a chance for Peter to apologize to Ender for the things he said and did to him. It would also give us insight into what prompted Ender to write "The Hedgemon". Plus... wouldn't it be ubber-cool to hear from Ender again? I believe we heard very little about the conversation in Ender's game. I picture this scene to be very touching.
kacard, what is your relation with our favorite writer? Wife? Daughter?
How about you msquared? I think it's really cool that you two take time to talk to us fans.
Posts: 94 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Well, there is one thing that I'm really hoping for..against hope I suppose...
I'm hoping that s certain character in Shadow of the Giant doesn't die. You know who I mean! Starts with a B..
I'm really hoping he doesn't die. I hope he finds someway to avoid his fate...(especially want to see this after what happened to Ender..).
I suppose its the same way I feel about Alvin Maker. I hope both characters can avoid their fates. That they find someway to get a happy ending...for awhile anyway!
Thats basically it on my hopes. As for the rest, I'm sure Mr. Card will provide an excellent read for us! I can't wait!
DF2506 " Is currently reading Heartfire. Will soon read Cyrstal City! "
Posts: 128 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Interesting suggestion about Bean. But I don't think he stay alive. Finally, Bean attempted to the aim of each man : have a child. All of others aims are any "poudre aux yeux". What can I translate that ? This is aims to forget our animal condition. What is important ? The fact he save the world from the anthill Invasion (I don't know the English word) or Achille ? Or the fact he carried out the objectif of the life ?
Else, I am like you about the final discussion between Andrew and Peter... and Valentine. I remember the end of the first chapter of Ender's Game. Andrew slept and Peter, jealous of him, bad and tyranical with him, said "I love you, brother." (I don't know the exact sentence because I read it in french.) Maybe Peter could say it to Andrew in this epilogue. I hope.
Another point I'd like to read is the birth of Jane and the beginning of his life.
So, I am impatient to read this book. But, Unfortunatelly, I must wait for the translation in french 2 years approximatelly ! I think I buy it in english first... Posts: 1189 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Msquared could be considered a friend of the family, I'd say. Unless there is something he isn't telling us, and he's really OSC's niece's uncle's cousin or something.
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Well DF2506, I know exactly what you mean. However, the fact along that this is called "Shadow of the GIANT" leads me to believe that hoping Bean survives is a lost hope. How many giants are there in this series? To a certain extent I think we might actually be disappointed without Bean's death though. This whole series is about Bean's life, just like the Ender series is about Ender's life. Leaving his death out would be leaving the story uncompleted to an extent.
Jane would be cool to see, but since she doesn't choose to reveal her existence until "Investment Councilor" it might be difficult to do. She couldn't really interact with any of the characters.
Bummer about the French version! Where are you from Choobak? A fellow Canadian perhaps?
Edit: Just noticed your post on the intorduction thread. I see you're French.
[ December 03, 2004, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Mark ]
Posts: 94 | Registered: Mar 2004
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First of all, Bean will die. I can't believe that Card would pull a cheap trick like having a major character not die from an incurable disease that he's be dying of for a few books.
I hope he dies off soon in the book, with a minimum of soul searching, so that we can spend more time with the real star of the series -- Peter. Oh, and his parents.
I would much rather read about Peter and his folks than an anghsty Bean.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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First,I'm a French from Paris (in France ! not in Texas) That why my English is not perfect (I'll say even bad). And to respond about the french version, this is easier to have it than the Original version. (Logic ! I'm in France.)
About Peter I think the discussion with Andrew his the "Point d'orgue" of the transfert of importance between Peter and Bean. And Finally, we'll join the Buckle with Ender. Good epilogue.
About Giant, the Queen is Giant. And I remember the Giant with his two glasses in the Videogame in the War school. You know ? It Is the origin of Jane... It's Another point who let's think about a presence of Jane in the Shadow of Giant. Moreover, she is very tall too ! look at the importance of his net.
Other point : can you explain me the sens of "anghsty" ? Just for complete my Vocabulary. Posts: 1189 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Not even really a friend of the family, just someone who has had the honor of meeting the Cards and breaking bread, or was it fish, with them. They are a wonderful couple who has allowed me to assist them on another site they host, www.ornery.org
posted
I did not care for Peter in Ender's Game, but I admit he is an interesting character in the Shadow books. So are his parents.
That said, I like Bean and Petra alot more. And I also don't want to see Bean die. Just cause its said that the character is going to die young doesn't mean he HAS to. There can be a plot twist. In fact, I want there to be a plot twist. I don't want it to be so predictable as, " Bean grows big and then dies like the scientists said he would." How boring is that. Plot twists! What we need is a really cool twist!
I mean, even though I didn't like what happened with Ender in Children of the Mind, at least it was more then him just dying. I hope something happens with Bean. I hope he lives somehow or something happens to him..like something happened to Ender. Not the same thing, but I'm sure Mr. Card can think of something. This is still sci-fi afterall.
I just don't want a predictable ending. Just cause something is set up like this, doesn't mean there isn't a way out. I think there's always hope.
And I mean, remember the whole scientist thing thats been set up? That there are those scientists that are looking into whats happening with Bean. Maybe they find something!
Also, there's the name of the book: SHADOW of the Giant. Now that could refer to Petra, because she's in the shadow of the giant or that could refer to everybody cause everyone is just a shadow compared to Bean..OR..that could refer to Bean being in the shadow of the giant. He's becoming big. Soon he'll be a giant. So that hangs over him like a shadow. Ok, maybe a bit far fetched, but maybe Bean won't be a giant yet when the book begins or maybe he will, but something will be found to stop him from dying. I don't know. I just don't want Bean to die in Shadow.
Anyway, we have no clue what Mr. Card is going to do with the book. He could suprise us. In fact, I HOPE he suprises us. This is the last Shadow book, so lets go out with a bang!
DF2506 " Is also looking forward to the book that links the two series! "
Posts: 128 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I am sick and tired of storytellers thinking that puting in lots of unpredictable plot twists makes for interesting storytelling. Something doesn't have to come out of the blue to be interesting, and it certainly doesn't make it interesting.
I'm glad that OSC doesn't suffer from that.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Hmm. In any case, it looks like Mr. Card has some suprises in store for Shadow of the Giant...
Spoiler Warning... < < > < > < > < > > <
Shadow of the Giant description from Amazon.com:
Bean was the smallest student at the Battle School, but he became Ender Wiggins' right hand, Since then he has grown to be a power on Earth. He served the Hegemon as strategist and general in the terrible wars that followed Ender's defeat of the alien empire attacking Earth. Now he and his wife Petra yearn for a safe place to build a family - something he has never known - but there is nowhere on Earth that does not harbor his enemies - old enemies from the days in Ender's Jeesh, new enemies from the wars on Earth. To find security, Bean and Petra must once again follow in Ender's footsteps. They must leave Earth behind, in the control of the Hegemon, and look to the stars.
And what's that Stargate-like thing on the cover?! HMMM.
DF2506 " Maybe Bean will die and maybe he won't. I'm taking nothing for granted. I didn't even know that Bean & Petra were going to leave Earth in Shadow of the Giant! Thats cool! So I hope maybe Bean will beat the odds somehow..or at the very least..the book will have a semi-happy ending! "
Posts: 128 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote: Orson Scott Card has promised two more novels in the Enderverse. The next one will be titled Shadow of the Giant and will probably deal with Bean and Petra's search for their stolen embryos as well as how Peter finally assumes full power over the world.
The final novel that he has promised to write will tie all of the threads of the series together. This is a tall order and its contents can only be speculated upon. I believe that it will find Bean travelling into the future via relativistic speeds to try to escape his genetic defect. He will probably eventually meet up with "Ender as Peter" (read Children of the Mind to understand that) and somehow the mystery of the descoladores will probably be solved (maybe they'll cure Bean.)
Or quite possibly if Bean and Petra zips thru space, Bean meets up with the early version of the "descoladores" and it reacts with his altered DNA? Then hmm somehow he and Petra end up as being the ancestors of Nova??? That'd be like wicked interesting. Weird in that Bean and Petra settle down on the planet long before Ender does.
I can't remember off the top of my head but Ender and Jane planet-hop, don't they? There is no order/line in which they arrive to a planet? So it could be possible that the planet they arrive at has already been inhabited by the descendants of Bean and Petra? Hmm..
That'd be awesome. Wonder if there were certain people that were resistant to the "descoladores" or not? Can't recall right now. If so, you could figure in that they were resistant due to the whole "Anton's Key" being turned and whatnot?!?
Ok.. I'm done speculating...for now. I'm always like this So you can ignore me if you wish.. but I love speculation.. especially in the world of novels and horror/scifi/fantasy. Too bad I suck at fleshing out the ideas I get in my head
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Well, for one I don't think Card will tie together the Bean series with CotM in SotG. In any casy he's prbably just going to end the Bean series with SotG and tie together the two Enderverse series in a later book (which could very well develop into some whole new series). In such a story I think Bean and Petra might travel at light speed for 3000 years to meet up with Ender and find that they meet Miro, Val-Jane, Peter-Ender, and Wang-Mu. But I doubt that'll happen, Bean's got like, what? Seven, eight years to live? He'd likely die before then even at relativistic speeds. More likely we may see Bean's son or grandson and maybe Petra. We can only hope . . . Posts: 93 | Registered: Nov 2004
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"anghsty" is the kind of I-don't-know-what-to-do-with-all-this-new-emotion feeling that is common in alot of crappy teen music. hope that clears it a litle Posts: 278 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Hmm.. ya know what I really wonder about? Who's the poor unlucky girl that catches Peter's eye? That is to say, IF he ever gets with someone? C'mon.. he's bound to cos he's bent on being in control and everything right? He's bound to give up some offspring to continue his legacy!
I wonder if instead there's a twist anywhere in the storyline for Bean and Ender's family line to intertwine here. Like so long ago, (waits for the spitwads to come flying..) Laurie told Jo (I think?!?) that he'd find a way to marry into the family in the Little Women movie...???
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just so it's clear, Bean can't meet Ender, it would have mentioned it. I also think that it is very possible that Bean offspring become the ones that inhabit, Lusitania. think about it, they lived in Brazil for a time (that's where the Lusitanians came from) and while Bean resists Sister Carlotta's Catholicism (sp?), i think he finallly excepts it, and the Lusitanians are Catholics. Just a thouhgt
Posts: 283 | Registered: Jan 2003
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I once thought about that too Peter, but Bean is Greek and Petra is Armenian. The people of Lusitania have black skin.
I can't picture Peter getting married. I suspect he will sleep around alot, but marriage? Can you picture him changing a diaper?
Posts: 94 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Big deal if the people in Lusitania have black skin. Let's say Bean and Petra have one kid, who maries somebody that is black, and their kids go to Lusitania with a bunch of other people with dark skin.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Just wondering, does anyone what happened to Miro, Val-Jane, Peter-Ender, and Wang-Mu at the end of CotM? Didn't they, like, disappear or something? I don't quite remember.
Posts: 93 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Thank you, String, for the definition of "anghsty" ! It's cool that somebody help a poor French
about a possible star travel for Bean and Petra, This confort me about some vision of Jane. Another idea is the possibility of new scientist discovery who can help Bean 80 years later. He has just traveled a mounth for him, but 80 years for the rest of mankind. Medecine progress all days, so in 80 years...
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I think that bean's decendents are the descoladores. I was re-reading shadow puppets and when bean and petra are talking petra says "How about this- they have a whole planet populated by your decendents." pg 55 in my copy Posts: 1 | Registered: Dec 2004
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mmh... I don't think so. Because Descoladores is another life form. But it's an idea. After all, perhaps Descoladores is the medecine for Bean...
Thanks for this point of view.
Posts: 1189 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Choobak, you're French ? Welcome ! I'm another Frenchie here ! Hope you'll stay Could you tell us more about U? Opp-a-daisy, I just noticed your post in the newbies thread. Well anyway And when you'll feel ready, just go there : Books, films and American Culture
[ December 07, 2004, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: Anna ]
Posts: 3526 | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:I still argue the point that if Bean had met up with Ender it would have been mentioned.
Why would it be mentioned before it happens? We ARE talking about a book that hasn't been released yet, remember?
Posts: 238 | Registered: Jun 2004
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LoL! It's funny to hear you guys argue about a book that is about to be published. As obviously dedicated fans of the series, don't you think that whatever happens, you'll be pleased with the results? I'm sure the book will be fine. But the really funny thing to be reading is the fact that you guys are also arguing about a book that won't be published for another to years at least! I highly doubt Card has actually sit down and put the pen to paper about the linking novel other than for notes. I can see it already, a debate that'll not end until it's published a couple years from now....one that'll rise here and there....lol. I have no oppinions at this time nor any outstanding theories. Whatever happens will be enough, that much is certain.
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Good writers always use ethimology, so there must be a reason for the similarity between the names Petra and Peter.
I believe that they will end up together. Petra loved Bean at the beginning, mainly because he was close to Ender and reminded her of him. Now that Bean will be gone, she will search for a replacement - someone close to Ender.
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This is a very fascinating discussion and thanks to it I have some ideas as well. As for Bean leaving and etc. being mentioned in ED that i no strickly true, the full length novel for EG was in responce to Speaker for the Dead since he wanted Ender in it and that would require having Ender's Game made into a novel for the proper plot. And I remember that last scene well enough to know that except for a single sentance from Peter it was a very vague converation where anything could have been said. As for Bean-Petra leaving *jump up and down and then do a little jig* YES! Bean still has a chance to meet Ender-as-Peter! Now remember space ships get ALOT better as time goes on. Remember it was only a 1-week voyage to travel 30 light years for Miro? And only 1 year to travel 50 light years when it first colonization ships launched? It is entirely within the realm of possibility for Bean and Petra to Travel to Lusitania in fact I believe that they are trying to find Ender as the book goes on. Bean might very well be cured by the desclodores and he may very well solve the diplomatic impass they have there. However the only thing that bothers me is the title "SHADOW of a GIANT" remember "ENDERS SHADOW"? ES was about quite liturally Ender's Shadow Bean. SotH was about the Hegemons Shadow also Bean. Shadow Puppets is more of a Platoian philosophy for a bunch of puppets on the walls playing whatever roles they are made too (something like that; I think that is mostly about Ender's Jeesh and their various roles). Shadow of a GIANT proably means the story is going to be of a view point of some character following closely behind Bean of maybe its another metaphor for Bean following behind Ender (a giant figurativly speaking) you see? An almost infinet amount of possibilities for plot just from the title alone. However thanks to Amazom.com we can actually narrow it down.... to about all of them. Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Ethimology - means giving a name for a purpose, e.g. Moses's name was given to him because Pharoe's daughter pulled him out of the water, and the act of pulling someone out of water is called "Masha" in Hebrew, "Mosh'e" was his name, and Moses the English variant form of Moshe.
Posts: 803 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote: the act of pulling someone out of water is called "Masha" in Hebrew
Actually, the verb is used for pulling or drawing anything out of the water. (Technically, "moshe" actually means "he who draws out," not "he who IS drawn out." Possibly this was a prophetic on Basya's part, and predicted his later "drawing out" of the Jews from Egypt.) It is related to "mashach" -- to draw out, or remove (from anywhere, not necessarily water).
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:I think he means it would be mentioned in Ender's Game, which ends when Peter is an old man.
But we're not talking about Peter, so what does it matter?
Shadow of the Giant either refers to the giant's drink giant, or to Bean directly. So one could suppose it would be about Bean's child(ren)
Posts: 238 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Just my two cents.....I think Shadow of the Giant meens Petra as Bean's shadow. Not nessasaraly his children. Think about it. It does make sense.
Posts: 112 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Ah, but think of it this way: If Bean is Ender's Shadow, then the Shadow of the Giant would have to be Bean's children. Ender was the closest thing Bean ever had to a father figure. Petra is Bean's equal in many ways. I don't think she could be his shadow.
Posts: 238 | Registered: Jun 2004
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i don't know if any of you have read the excerpt on the main page but i think Hot Soup is going to play an important role don't eat Hot Soup
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Uhm . . . two things. One, how is Ender the closest hing to a fatcher figure that Bean had when Bean had a father. One that wasn't, like, 3 years older than him. Also, Steve, uhm, you don't exactly eat soup, do you? I don't. I tend to slurp . . .
Posts: 93 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Well Ender was an extremely important character in Beans life remember when Ender was tansfered to Command School in EG/ES? Where Bean cried because he thought he would never see Ender again. I don't think the book is about Petra becuase SotH and Shadow Puppets gave much detail to Petra's character already. So its either A) Beans Children; I believe it would be about BC trying to find Ender. B) Bean following behind Ender. C) Some other character following Bean. So as we can see I believe it may be a combination of a few of those (A&B) but I think there is a D) Bean and Petra searching fortheir children but since the critic thingy said otherwise...
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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your right i don't eat Hot Soup i slurp it too you have enlightened me....i still think Hot Soup will be important
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Bean had a biological father, yes. But throughout most of his life he only knew his biological father as the father of a friend, and then only through what that friend told Bean. Let's face it: Bean's mother was Sister Carlotta, and his father was Ender.
Posts: 238 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I remember the game in the war school. The limit of the game is the giant. Ender pass him and the computer had to invent. I think, after reread the Jane research of her origin, she was born at this moment. And finally, Ender is his creator with the will of Queen to connect him. Jane doesn't finish to be spoken about. Maybe in the shadow of Giant, or in the story who link Ender and Bean.
Posts: 1189 | Registered: Dec 2004
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IIRC, Jane isn't born at that moment, but she starts developing awareness later when she incorporates this game into herself.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Indeed Jane doesn't become "sentient" for centuries; However after finding and reading the first 3 chapters in the library I must revise my opinion.
A) The book seems to be about Peter still trying to become Hegemon as with the other books and is about Bean trying to find his children. But is also about this mother thinking she has Achilees child within her. Now this book will either continue on these plotlines or
B) These events happen at the beginning then zoom a few years into the future where Peter is Hegemon and Randi leaves Earth looking for a safe place to raise her bean/achilees child and the other children who were found try to look for her. ANd a bunch of other stuff that ties up the loose ends.
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you have enlightened me....i still think Hot Soup will be important
