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Author Topic: Master Alvin question for Mr. Card
Von
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Mr. Card,

My lovely wife and I are reading the Alvin Maker series together. We are plodding through Heartfire now. Our strategy has been to read an Alvin book, and then read two standalones - mostly yours - before the next Alvin book. I'm sure you can guess it is because Master Alvin is non-existent, and we are doing our best to stall. My question is, how long should we stall? Perhaps you don't reveal these kinds of answers, but is the book on your horizon or are there several projects before it? Thanks in advance,

Joe

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jeniwren
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It'll be right after the sequel to Lovelock is done.

Just kidding. [Smile]

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TomDavidson
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Another stand-alone book is coming out this summer. It might tide you over a bit. [Smile]
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Rob Rich
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Just finished all of the published Alvin books and was looking for the same info. This thread gives all the info right from OSC's own mouth - later. http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002829#000000

Oh well, gives me time to catch up on the Ender's series.

Mr. Card - I thank you for your works. Just wish I could read them before u write. [Wink]

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Noemon
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You're plodding through Heartfire? It isn't my favorite book in the series by a long shot, but plodding?
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Orson Scott Card
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I don't know right now what I'm writing next, though I know that one publisher will be really irritated if it isn't "The Wives of Israel."

Master Alvin is well down the road. It's going to be a very, very long book, and it makes me tired just thinking about it. Especially because Alvin's dead at the end and that makes me sad. I just want him to sit around making up silly songs with Arthur Stuart.

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Noemon
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Maybe you could publish a couple of Alvin and the Makers chapbooks or something*.

*no, I'm not serious.

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Leonide
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Haven't you already written about the Wives of Israel? Rachel and Leah, right? (plus...Zilpah and Bilhah, if i remember correctly.)

The Red Tent is another great book about that family.

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pwiscombe
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Would "Wives of Israel" be considered Book 4 of the Women of Genesis Trilogy?

Which is great, because I really enjoyed book 4 and 5 of the Ender Trilogy.

And Books 4-7 of the Alvin Maker Trilogy.

I'm still looking forward to the rest of the books in the Lovelock Trilogy and the Pastwatch Trilogy...

Don't get me wrong. Don't stop at three. I just wonder why the publishers refer to OSC's upcoming series as Trilogies. I don't think he as ever written just 3 books in a set.

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TomDavidson
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You know, you don't have to kill Alvin. I mean, you've deviated enough from straight allegory in a number of places that I think no one's looking for Alvin to be a literal Smith analogue. And to be honest, I think the story works better when he's not.

So here's at least one fan who thinks that it'd be perfectly okay for you to take this story somewhere else, if your own unhappiness with the ending is actually a factor. [Smile]

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jongo05
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I support Tom totally in the notion that you don't have to kill Alvin. Just one more name to the pile.
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Verai
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+1 vote in favor for Alvin staying alive.

I want to get to visit Alvin in the MMORPG as my Indian earth elementalist.

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Verily the Younger
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I can't say I want Alvin to die either. But he's already foreshadowed it, people! Foreshadowed, I say!
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TomDavidson
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And wouldn't it great to be, like, all foreshadowy and stuff and then not do it? It'd be a giant literary YOINKS!
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Verai
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Oh Mr. Card, with that said you couldn't possibly pass up a YOINKS!, could you?

[ April 04, 2005, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Verai ]

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Orson Scott Card
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But I want him dead. Don't you see? I need to have him dead and pounded into the ground. Because he's better than me! Nicer, more powerful, braver, and he smells better too. How can I bear to leave him in existence for people to compare him to me and, as always, find me wanting?

Plead not to spare his life. He is doomed. Doomed, I say!

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rivka
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Perhaps we could just tar and feather him? That would take care of the "smells better" aspect, at least.
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Joldo
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Besides, keeping him alive would be like finding a deus ex machina to cure Bean. Alvin has to die.

Though I do have a question about it, really. Now, I believe Taleswapper tells Alvin that two bites from the fruit of the tree in eight-face mound grants eternal life. And Alvin bites into one once in a dream and once in life. Since being on eight-face mound and dreaming are pretty similar, shouldn't he now be immortal?

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Jordache Dailey
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i whould just like to point out that the virus in Children of the Mind whould make an excelent cure for bean [Razz]
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quidscribis
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Well, Memsahib Dude Sir, if you really want Alvin dead, then who are we to argue? Hmm. Unless I can hack into the files after the galleys are finished and before the publisher's printed the books. Then I can change everything. Yeah! And we'll throw in a cure for Bean while we're at it!

Alright, who's in?

Um, wait. I'm not a hacker. It won't work. *stamps off* [Grumble]

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Von
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Mr. Card,

I'm very happy that you got back to me. I guess we'll just deal with the cold hard reality that Master:Alvin is far away. If I may offer some thoughts, though:

Alvin should certainly die if that's what you want to do with the story, but just think how excited you would be for writing this book if you ended it in a way that you can be excited about. For example, perhaps you can choose something worse than death for Alvin, such as life with suffering. I think of the impression "Red Prophet" left on me in a way the other books didn't. And it was, I think, because of the deep pain and suffering that would remain with Tenska-Tawa and his kin as long as they lingered. Perhaps Alvin can remain alive - a man even bigger than we imagined - as he chooses the harder road for the sake of others, a road that means suffering for him. Yet, he will have a confidence and joy even still, and endure what he must...because that is who Alvin is. Just a though.

And if you like that idea, here is another: write Master Alvin after "Wives of Genesis" and before the new shadow book. It would make my wife and I quite happy. [Smile]

Sincerely,
Joe

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Gryphonesse
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He smells better??

[ROFL]

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0range7Penguin
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You said he is to die but you didn't say how. Maybe he could just die of old age? Maybe?
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Mr_Megalomaniac
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Bah, Alvin should be able to live forever. He just needs to change his body around and keep it young for all etenrity... all eternity. If he dies then I'll get all emotional and won't feel very manly. Nevermind that getting emotional over such things normally makes me like books, tv, movies more. Doh, nevermind.
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Ryuko
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I have it now. Scott, are you Calvin!? O_O
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Verai
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Ryuko, we are connected psychically (but not in good spelling. Psyciacly. Psychicly. ?)

I thought the very same thing. It also reminded me of all Ender's jealous opposition through Battle School.

I pick up a new subtlety every time I read Ender's Game, I'd like to add. With the doctors in the beginning. It was like their words could be twisted to foreshadow what the IF was going to do to Ender.

[ April 06, 2005, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: Verai ]

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Orson Scott Card
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Psychically. You were right the first time.

Such wonderful suggestions about how to keep Alvin alive. "Instead of killing him, just make him suffer!"

How about both? nya-ha-ha ...

What has ME excited is the real issue of the last volume: Will Alvin's work live on after him? Remember that his central dilemma always was that the Unmaker was unbuilding his wall faster than he could build it; the only solution was to be joined by enough other Makers that he could get ahead. Will the Crystal City be truly a city of makers, and will it persist after he dies?

Tune in next week, same Alvin time, same Alvin channel.

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Verai
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Alvin discovers he has a deadly disease that will kill him soon, though no one knows for sure when. He scrambles to secure a good future for his children and make his last years productive with research. His wife is sad and marries the bad guy.
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Orson Scott Card
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Who would ever write a book with a plot as dumb as that? [Wall Bash]
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mothertree
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Oh, yeah. Peggy and Calvin. I can totally see that. I still don't get how they are going to kill Alvin. I suppose he could undertake the making of making himself not a maker anymore. Whoa. Okay, that would be cool. Kill away.
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ChaosTheory
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Alvin should die. I don't mean that in a bad way but it would just be more interesting than if he lived to be 83, the death would solidify his greatness - Like why the Romans spared Hannibal, they didn't want him to die young and become remembered as the great legend who lead Carthage and the world agains Rome, the Romans knew that dying yound while powerful made you great...in legend.
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Von
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Well, Mr. Card --

I don't mind Alvin dying. Don't get me wrong. It's my duty though, as a Christian husband, to go to every effort, even to death, to care for my wife. And, as you can understand, it isn't very caring of my wife to bring her through the first six Alvin books, only to make her wait a long, long time for the final tome.

Our fates are entwined now. You must write the book, even this very day! Because I have been so boneheaded to introduce her to the series, I am asking, begging, that you help me out of this mess. Oh that I should be rendered a book worm that has been eaten by the early bird in such a way as to have no food in the famine! [Angst]

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AB
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Mr. Card, it is lovely to see you posting so regularly.

I don't mind if you kill Alvin. He is rather annoyingly perfect. But if you lay one finger on that dear Arthur Stewart, so help me . . .

In all seriousness, I find I am more excited to see what happens to the community than Alvin himself. Of course the book will be huge just to tie up the loose ends with the cast of thousands. But just think about how much you love those characters! Don't you want to start hanging out with them again?

And not to add too much pressure here, but it's not just your publishers who want you to write Wives of Israel.

Here's hoping you've gotten some better night's sleep in that past few days. [Wink]

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BryanP
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Well, of course Alvin has to die. Ender died. Bean is as good as dead. OSC wouldn't be consistent if Alvin didn't die.....

But there better be a good reason for it. I don't see how the guy would end up dead if he didn't want to end up dead. He is, after all, the man.

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sands
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quote:
Originally posted by ChaosTheory:
Alvin should die. I don't mean that in a bad way but it would just be more interesting than if he lived to be 83, the death would solidify his greatness - Like why the Romans spared Hannibal, they didn't want him to die young and become remembered as the great legend who lead Carthage and the world agains Rome, the Romans knew that dying yound while powerful made you great...in legend.

yeah, i mean we can't have alvin walking around with a cane at 80. you have to kill him young so that he was always strong. he also has to killed and not die of a disease or anything like that
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CRash
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Besides, what puny disease could take on a Maker? I vote for an unforseeable, violent death that will so utterly decimate Alvin that the series concludes emphatically. That will remove both the threat to OSC's character and the ominous looming of possible sequels to the books.
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Macery
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If I'm not mistaken, we already know that he will die in a jail cell that he chooses to stay in and he will send Mike Fink away from his protection. I believe that was the future that peggy saw. So he will die a martyrs(sp?) death and for some reason will willingly not prevent his own death.

I too am curious about his mortality status as it relates to the fruit inside the mound.

Oh yea and while I'm in the midst of my first post here (long time lurker) and it was mentioned in the thread, any new word about the Maker MMORPG or links to current info?

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Macery
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go figure. I just saw that there was a thread on the MMORPG on the first page ... so you can ignore that question.
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BryanP
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quote:
Originally posted by Macery:
If I'm not mistaken, we already know that he will die in a jail cell that he chooses to stay in and he will send Mike Fink away from his protection. I believe that was the future that peggy saw. So he will die a martyrs(sp?) death and for some reason will willingly not prevent his own death.

I don't think that is what will happen. Peggy is infamously bad at predicting what will happen to Alvin since she can't forsee his makery. I'm pretty sure that however he dies, it won't be willing (he loves his work and his family too much to just go ahead and die) and it won't be predicted by Peggy.

And as for aging, I don't think Alvin would do this, but does anyone doubt his ability to prevent himself from growing old? I'm pretty sure he could keep his body from aging, if he wanted to. I could see Calvin trying to pursue immortality like that, if he had the skills Alvin had...

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hugh57
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You've already had Alvin dream the plot to LOTR. Why not have Alvin become a Wraith - neither living nor dead?
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Peter Howell
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What a great idea! With his last breath, Alvin "Makes" earth into middle earth! The unmaker becomes Sauron, Calvin becomes Sarumon, and Alvin becomes Gandalf (he reincarnated once, why not do it again?)... somebody call Peter Jackson, tell him we've got the beginnings of a LotR prequil, this'll be big! Big Big BIG! This'll... What do you mean there's already a prequil? [ROFL]
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Roseauthor
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I think we should keep this simple.. Do the Moses routine. Alvin isn't allowed to enter the promiss land and just disappears from the story.. with no explaination just so theologians and scolars can speculate for the next.... 2000 years.
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TheSeeingHand
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Wait...but what about White Prophet? It's shouldn't be THAT big of a deal, right? It's a SHORT story. If Master Alvin, the FINAL volume, is published, Alvin dies, then White Prophet is published, then you read that, then it's really melancholy and all because yo ualready know exactly what happens, even if he DOESN'T die it would be melancholy. White Prophet should be published before Master Alvin, since Master Alvin will have a "Final" feel about it.

Am I right or what?

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