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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Discussions About Orson Scott Card » Wolfgang Peterson shouldn't direct Ender's Game (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Wolfgang Peterson shouldn't direct Ender's Game
CiceroJefferson
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Are you kidding me? wolfgang peterson is the crappiest director out there. he directed Troy!! what a joke. come on OSC there are a lot of better directors out there. do you remember the dialog from troy... rancid!!
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Portabello
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I suggest you read OSC's review of Troy before you try to convince him of this.

hint: OSC like Troy

quote:
do you remember the dialog from troy... rancid!!
Also, maybe you should look up what a director does and what writers do.
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CRash
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The dialogue usually doesn't come from the director.
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CiceroJefferson
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Enders game is one of the greatest books of all time. please, it will already be a difficult movie to make with all the child actors we need a good director with talent to pull this off. we do not need a man who directs like George Lucas.
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CiceroJefferson
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directors influence the script... plus they also determine how the actors say the lines
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Portabello
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Have you read what OSC said about Troy?
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DemonGarik
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Lets be honest, we need a director who can do space... Close Encounters of the Third Kindish,

but we also need a director who can make us connect with a little boy... maybe AIish...

we also need a director who can make battle scences look cool, say Top Gun/Starship troopers type battles...

Personally, I vote Spielberg

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Jonathan Howard
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I vote Cleese. For everything! [Big Grin]

Nah, not the type. How about Schwimmer? [Big Grin]

Nah, not the type. How about Hook? [Big Grin]

Nah, not the type. How about... about...

WE NEED OSC HIMSELF TO WRITE THE SCRIPT AND DIRECT!

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Gryphonesse
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there was dialog in Troy? I never got past Brad Pitt's nekkid arse...

[Big Grin]

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Taalcon
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Cicero, have you seen Das Boot? Neverending Story?

If you haven't seen BOTH of those, then go out and rent them before you say a single word about Wolfgang Petersen's ability.

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AutumnFire
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"The dialogue usually doesn't come from the director."

Yes, unless that director happens to be George Lucas: "the sand is hard and rough, not like your skin: it's smooth and beautiful"...

Oh. God.

Yes, sane directors do not write dialogue.

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Taalcon
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Actually, I think that line, coming from a kid who'se been emotionally repressed since before he went through puberty, and who before his emotional repression was physicaly oppressed on a Planet Filled With Sand, talking to the one person who makes him forget his history and emotional repression - I think that lines makes perfect sense.

You may not have said it, you'd groan oif you heard someone else said it - but for Anakin, that line felt like something he would say.

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Carl Conrad Coreander
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Go Talcon! The Neverending Story was great! Well, it was weird...and actually that was also based on a book and it left out a LOT of the book... But I still loved it even if it DID leave out many of the main ideas.

Say, did he direct Air Force One also?

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Taalcon
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Yep. And The Perfect Storm, Enemy Mine, In The Line of Fire, Etc.
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mothertree
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Das Boot was pretty good. I mean, the guy can make you love Nazis.

I'm curious as to how much sway the casting folks have in a production. I mean, anyone remember the early trailers of Troy pitching the greatest warrior who ever lived, and then "BRAD PITT" appears on the screen? I mean, if someone is just woefully miscast... it's just hard. I mean, how do you kick Brad Pitt off a film, once he has been won? I didn't actually see Troy, but I'm sure everyone was just making the best of a bad situation at that point.

P.S. Dude, I'm barely coherent. I should really go back to bed.

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Orson Scott Card
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The attitudes toward Wolfgang Petersen and toward Troy expressed here are kind of strange. Wolfgang is one of the most respected directors in the industry - both by money people (his films make money) and by artistic types (his films are brilliantly conceived).

No one here has actually given a coherent reason why ANYTHING is wrong with Troy. It was a powerful evocation of another era. My wife and I saw it twice in the first few days - it was powerful, entrancing. The writer, director, and actors achieved the sense of a heroic, semi-civilized era and captured the tone and feel of the world of the Iliad (while leaving out the gods).

Meanwhile, you also don't understand how Hollywood works. Writers don't "pick" directors. The only power I had was to veto the ones who would have been horrible. Beyond that, we looked for directors who found the project interesting, who were on the short list of those capable of directing it AND of getting a studio to back the project with that director attached. What some folks don't seem to grasp is that the ONLY reason Warner Brothers picked up the Ender's Game movie project was that Wolfgang was attached. If Wolfgang were not the director, THERE WOULD BE NO PROJECT. We'd still be going begging to the studio doors. Wolfgang, not I, is driving the project. That's how Hollywood works, when it works at all.

The very fact that the alternative proposed was a director like the one who did "Close Encounters" shows amazing insensitivity to what would make Ender's Game work. Take a look at Hook, for instance, or the false and dishonest over-the-top ending of Schindler's List ... you want a director who can't bear a tough ending? A director who has no understanding of character? I'd rather NOT see Ender's Game be nothing but a special effect-driven extravaganza, thanks ...

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TrapperKeeper
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Change of subject, how IS the project progressing?

The page the hatrack homepage links to hasn't updated in a while.

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TomDavidson
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"No one here has actually given a coherent reason why ANYTHING is wrong with Troy."

Hm. I found the dialogue clumsy, the acting alternately wooden and hammy, and the scenes poorly-paced. It just failed for me on every level. [Frown]

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kaioshin00
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quote:
Writers don't "pick" directors. The only power I had was to veto the ones who would have been horrible. Beyond that, we looked for directors who found the project interesting, who were on the short list of those capable of directing it AND of getting a studio to back the project with that director attached.
So you don't have any say in what actually appears on screen?
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Peter
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I actually like Peterson, have u seen Outbreak ?
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Haloed Silhouette
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Easy for you to talk, Peter. You like the name!

Why can't OSC direct it himself? He's practically good in everything. Poems, books, short-stories, plays, music, films... Does it really make a difference regarding OSC?

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Taalcon
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You really have no idea how the film industry works, do you Haloed?
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Portabello
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Haloed, did you even read OSC's post?
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Libo
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I actually enjoyed Troy, going into it with preconceived notions of it being horrible. Watching the 1st half hour I found myself totally immersed into the movie, the story & setting alone had me.
I'm not too concerned with Peterson's ability to direct, i wonder how his casting of Ender will turn out

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alluvion
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I maintain that it's a shame this project never sees the light of day on a screen nof OSC's own direction. As an H-wood blockbuster, likely not. As a creative alternative, flocked-too, by certain fans, prolly good.

eh *shrug*

I dig the books, though the "shadow" motif wore-out a couple books back.

alluvion

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Lock and key
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wait a sec, let me get this strait, someone is thinking of making a EG movie! this is just my opinion but that may be a bit of a challenge.

one: the kids age about 6-7 years(If I remember correctly) from the time they enter battle school to the end of the wars
two:(relating to one) the actors may have to sign on for life of they go one to make the next books. Mainly the "Shadow" books
three: you will nee some very young talent for the characters.

don't get me wrong, I love the idea of the Enders Game movie [Smile] . it will be interesting to see. quite a challenge it will be. OSC better be on set for some of the filming.

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Orson Scott Card
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1. We compress the action of the book to one year, and the youngest of the characters (Bean) is about nine or ten.

2. It's very hard to work with child actors, but it can be done, as witness the stellar performances of every child actor in Peter Pan and Neverland.

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alluvion
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darn.
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Jacob Calder
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I haven't seen Troy, so maybe my opinion would change, but I think the Ender's Game movie is very lucky to have such a big time director attached to the project. Any movie Peterson directs is a potential blockbuster. That gives Ender's Game the budget it needs to tell the story properly, and hopefully Peterson is trusted enough to deliever a blockbuster, he'll have more freedom from the studio.
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Lock and key
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quote:
Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:
1. We compress the action of the book to one year, and the youngest of the characters (Bean) is about nine or ten.

2. It's very hard to work with child actors, but it can be done, as witness the stellar performances of every child actor in Peter Pan and Neverland.

guess that works. Althought the child gueneses won't be as young as in the book.
i know it's a long shot(ok, more like a shot around the world)but, any plans for "enders shadow" movie
I realise the Xenocide and those books would probaby be easyer

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Shan
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"Althought the child gueneses won't be as young as in the book."


Correction. It just means we don't see the evolution of Ender the 5-year old up through age 12 when he unwittingly led the battles as "games."

I wonder if there'll be flashbacks to younger Ender and other child brilliance to fill in the "gaps"?

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Taalcon
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quote:
any plans for "enders shadow" movie
I realise the Xenocide and those books would probaby be easyer

If by 'easier' you mean 'easier to market than the Shadow Series', then you're very, very wrong.
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Lock and key
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Actually by 'easier'(sorry bout that spelling) I mean easier to make. They wouldn't have to make Bean grow from 5 foot to 8 foot(that the impression I got from the book at least). Although now that I think of it they could probably do something similar to what they did in LOTR with the hobbits.

It would, by all means, be easier to market. I personally couldn't get in to Speaker or Xenocide as much as the Shadow books. Not to mention the fact that it has all the characters we knew/loved from EG.

[ May 21, 2005, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Lock and key ]

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Kama
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quote:
Hm. I found the dialogue clumsy, the acting alternately wooden and hammy, and the scenes poorly-paced. It just failed for me on every level.
But Tom, it had Brad Pitt and Orlando. This is even better than the nekkid pics of a poster I shall not name!
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St. Yogi
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I'd just like to point out that this thread has been "aintitcooled": http://aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=20287

edit: oops!

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Sid Meier
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...

yeah.. I agree the cast should be 75% non white since most of the battle schoolers were from south east asian/orient.

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Just another Dharma bum
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quote:
Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:
The attitudes toward Wolfgang Petersen and toward Troy expressed here are kind of strange. Wolfgang is one of the most respected directors in the industry - both by money people (his films make money) and by artistic types (his films are brilliantly conceived).

No one here has actually given a coherent reason why ANYTHING is wrong with Troy. It was a powerful evocation of another era. My wife and I saw it twice in the first few days - it was powerful, entrancing. The writer, director, and actors achieved the sense of a heroic, semi-civilized era and captured the tone and feel of the world of the Iliad (while leaving out the gods).

Meanwhile, you also don't understand how Hollywood works. Writers don't "pick" directors. The only power I had was to veto the ones who would have been horrible. Beyond that, we looked for directors who found the project interesting, who were on the short list of those capable of directing it AND of getting a studio to back the project with that director attached. What some folks don't seem to grasp is that the ONLY reason Warner Brothers picked up the Ender's Game movie project was that Wolfgang was attached. If Wolfgang were not the director, THERE WOULD BE NO PROJECT. We'd still be going begging to the studio doors. Wolfgang, not I, is driving the project. That's how Hollywood works, when it works at all.

The very fact that the alternative proposed was a director like the one who did "Close Encounters" shows amazing insensitivity to what would make Ender's Game work. Take a look at Hook, for instance, or the false and dishonest over-the-top ending of Schindler's List ... you want a director who can't bear a tough ending? A director who has no understanding of character? I'd rather NOT see Ender's Game be nothing but a special effect-driven extravaganza, thanks ...

Thanks for defending Peterson, Card, I really loved Troy and don't understand why people don't like him being the director anymore than you do :\.

The last sentance there gives me so much hope that this film won't go wrong. We owe you for being so involved in this process and not letting Ender's Game turn into a special-effects driven action movie. Thanks!!

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Lock and key
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I know this is a dumb question that most people here have but don't realize it
How far along is the 'project'?

also
quote:
from aintitcool post:
as i read the story, that was a huge part of ender's growth--his isolation--and to be sure, a year is a long time to a small child, but it wouldn't chip away at his SELF as much as was needed in such a time.

Not that it will change anything, but he's got a point
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Sid Meier
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Hey Shindlers list was good. I cried at the end!
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signine
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To the guy who asks why OSC doesn't direct it himself:

I've got a fair amount of experience in how hollywood works from frequently 0 to 1 degrees of seperation. I've worked on a couple projects and heard more than enough about people working on other projects. Suffice to say directing a play and directing a feature film are VASTLY different things, nevermind the fact that directing a feature film is one of the biggest undertakings you can shoulder in entertainment. The amount of knowledge, connections, time, political ties, etc, you have to have to get it done well and get it done right are pretty staggering.

First, you have to know how to shoot a movie. Think it's as simple as pointing the camera at the subject and rolling the film? Nope. Think about how insanely complex professional photography is, using light meters, etc etc etc. Now imagine you can't use a flash and you're shooting 24 shots per second, with tied in sound.

Secondly, the director is the director. They're also responsible for getting the cast and crew together, building the budget, making sure catering arrives on time, making sure they have the film permits for the location their shooting at, making sure the union reps for the film crews are happy, etc etc etc etc.

In other words, it's not as simple as telling the actors what to do in each shot and overseeing the final edit. The best directors are the ones that have done it forever, and there's a reason you almost never hear of an unknown director making a blockbuster feature film.

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shadyn
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I haven't seen Troy or any of the movies mentioned but I didn't think children were allowed to have film dialogue until they were at least 7 years old? Or is that just a TV rule. If that is true I would think that would narrow the ages and the available actors down even more
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Exploding Monkey
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Das Boot baby! WP did Das Boot! What else do you need?! [Smile]
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OniShiro
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Wolfgang Petersen can be a fantastic director for Ender's Game, as long as he goes back to his old sensibilities, The Neverending Story and Enemy Mine are great movies where you really care about the characters, whereas in Troy you don't care at all about them.

So please, please, please, OSC watch Enemy Mine and tell Wolfgang to use that sensibility that he's lost in his last movies to make us care about Ender, Bean, and the rest of characters.

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Exploding Monkey
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I noticed Ridey Scott has the same problem. His early stuff was great but his current films (while still entertaining) do not hold up as well.

TNS and EM are great flicks. Those are two I need to add to my library. I still think Das Boot is Peterson's best work though.

I think as long as Card stays close to Peterson durring production that both of their creative abilities combind will turn out a great movie.

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The Mariner
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When I first heard about Wolfgang I thought he'd be perfect because of Neverending Story. A man who cares about fantasy and can direct children well. The performance he got out of Barett Oliver is just the kind of naturalistic/not cutesy perf we need out of Ender. Ender is not a cereal box hawker, he's a repressed genius kid. He's got problems. OSC, I think invoking the acting chops of the Peter Pan kids isn't helping, but we see what you mean. Though I wasn't the hugest fan of "Butcher Boy," it's young performances like that which point us in the right direction. Going the naturalistic route to find a Keisha Castle-Hughes, or the young stars of Ratcatcher and other smaller films is in my opinion the way to go. Every once in a while a commercial star like Dakota Fanning comes along, but not often. Peterson's ability to make things gritty (Das Boot) could make this more than another antiseptic, pristine, Star Trek-looking, CGI schlockfest. With the respect books with enormous followings have gained as a result of LOTR and HP, etc., Ender's Game could end up being art as well as commerce. I've had visions of this movie in my mind for so long, it's killing me.
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Exploding Monkey
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quote:
Originally posted by Just another Dharma bum:
Thanks for defending Peterson, Card, I really loved Troy and don't understand why people don't like him being the director anymore than you do :\.

I'm watching Troy for the first time. Half way through it right now. I like it so far, but the fact I'm reading Kagan's The Peloponnesian War at the moment might be part of the reason I'm enjoying it so much. [Cool]
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iamlegion
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to CiceroJefferson

You are an Idiot, Wolfgang Peterson is one of the greatist directors of all time, you look at one film that was just ok and label him as a hack, you should do reaserch before you open your mouth. Peterson is the Director of Das boot, Air force One, and the best of all time The neverending Story. There is a wonderful wedsite out there that will prevent you from looking like an idiot again, its called www.imdb.com next time you want to say something stupid think about it first.

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Papa Janitor
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Iamlegion, welcome to Hatrack.

The approach you have taken here isn't quite in line with our approach here at Hatrack. Please take a moment to revisit the user agreement, or simply review how other people who disagree just as firmly with Cicero have responded without insult. Thanks.

--Pop

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TomDavidson
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quote:

Peterson is the Director of Das boot, Air force One, and the best of all time The neverending Story.

Okay, the fact that you mentioned these three films in the same breath and specifically identified The Neverending Story as the best of them should by any standard immediately disqualify your opinion. [Smile]
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thegameiam
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I was nervous about Peterson, because while I hadn't seen Troy, I hadn't heard anything good about it from anyone other than OSC. However, www.imdb.com is my friend: Das Boot is one of the greats of all time, and The Perfect Storm was fantastic (along with his others) [hmm, I just realized that he's got a thing for sinking boats...]

So now I'm excited, and whether or not Troy is good, the rest of his work is fantastic [Big Grin]

-David

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