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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Discussions About Orson Scott Card » Taking A Class From OSC (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Taking A Class From OSC
Will B
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Lots to talk about today. (I'm posting this under Hatrack River Forum and under the Writers Workshops -- different crowds.)

My main conclusion: some things to look for in the edit stage. I blew this really bad in a recent story on Liberty Hall, in which people didn't know the POV character until about halfway through.

Tell 'em up front

quote:
There was a lot to think about after a men's meeting. Frank offered Tim and his dog Rusty a ride back to their house, not really expecting Tim to take him up on it, since it was so close, but Tim agreed.

Rusty said, "Whatever" -- in doggie body language -- and jumped in the back.

"So waht are you going to do about your dad's visit?" Tim asked.

"I guess I'll let him," Frank said. Tim had said, during the meeting: life's full of decisions. What's yours? Make the call.

"You 'guess'?" Tim said.

"I'll do it," Frank said. As Yoda said: do, or do not. There is no try. No "I guess," either.

Rusty had no comment.

Whose POV? Some thought: Tim. (Tim has relationship to dog and to Frank.) Some thought Frank, since he was "not really expecting" something; but OSC said, it could have been Tim imagining what Frank would expect (?). In any case, it can be fixed trivially:

There was always a lot for Frank to think about after a men's meeting. He offered Tim and his dog Rusty a ride ...

This has the added advantage that Frank, Tim, and Rusty don't appear in the same sentence; you get a little more time for Frank to settle in before more characters appear.

Remaining problem: 3-sentence flashback. "Tim had said..." OSC suggested putting this in paragraph 1, as soon as Frank offered Tim and the dog a ride. You still have the flashback, but it can also be used to answer the question: why did Frank make this offer?

Alternately, just omit it.

Problem for me: knowing what the reader is going to wonder aobut. Clear thing: if it's something the reader will wonder about, do it in paragraph 1; or, at least, paragraph 2. Paragraph 1 is "free," that is, it can be expository, violate POV, whatever.

OSC has also said: if you start a new section/chapter, tell the reader the change in venue/POV char/time elapsed in the very first sentence.

The two things I was concerned about when I wrote this: making people not do a double take when, later on, the dog has dialogue. So I worked and got this so that the class had no trouble with it; no explanation needed -- I eased them into it.

I was also concrned that people would wonder about this "men's meeting" stuff; or, why didn't you tell us earlier that Tim runs a business (which becomes relevant later)? They didn't. Instead, they didn't get 2 words I used: "Aspberger's" and "maudlin." Know Thine Audience.

Tell 'em up front, OSC kept saying. It's OK to tell the reader your cool story idea in paragraph 1! and then show it to them. Suspense is knowing 99% of what's going on, and being driven berzerk by the remaining 1%. (It *isn't* being confused about what's going on!) We keep saying this in Hatrack writer's workshop. New writers want to create mystery this way. As for me, I just thought everybody knew what I was thinking! Also true for others in the class, I think.

Better to say "duh!" than "huh?"

More on POV

In 3PL, deep penetration, let the writing not call attention to itself, but to the character: the character provides the humor (or whatever emotion).

We were deep in 3pl (in another story), and the author said of the MC, "...and then she hit upon a plan."

This was justified, and the writer went on to show us the plan, but it did remind us we were in a story. It's a cost.

"She looked worried." Not if she's the POV character; she won't be thinking about how she looked! "She grinned." Well, this can be -- but what if she's alone? Do people grin alone? Maybe -- but you could show her attitude internally.

"She was happy." Possible, but almost never do we need to say the emotions; they can be implied by actions and thoughts. Thank you, OSC: I get so annoyed at [gripe]paragraphs full of someone feeeling terrified, gasping, having his heart leap into his throat while his hands shake and his thoughts turn to the alien's hot breath and on top of it all he's really, really scared ... argh! Once I hear that there was an alien monster with big teeth coming his way, and he's running the other direction, I'm pretty sure he's scared![/gripe]

Some of this was very subtle.

Mary's POV. Husband is John. "Blah?" he asked his wife. Problem: she doesn't think of herself as "his wife." "Blah?" he asked her -- works better.

"With anticipation, she..." Well, not breaking a rule, but we can get the anticipation from her waiting and watching.

(So, Maria, is that enough detail for the week? [Smile] )

[ September 22, 2005, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Will B ]

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Orson Scott Card
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Good heavens, you're taking notes so precise you could practically teach my course from these reports <grin>
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El JT de Spang
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Which means next semester Will can take over and you can get back to writing, right?

Of course, that's a purely selfish request since I'm not in the class.

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Will B
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No, because he's teaching a novel writing class and (schedule willing) I want it too!
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Zarex
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I've been working feverishly on my story which is due on Oct. 11. So far my premise is about a world where magic and technology coexist. But they are both marketable products and there is a healthy competition between the two markets. There is about to be a release of a brand new invention that could endanger the magic market and potentially make it obsolete, so the wizards are scrabbling to make something to compete with this new technology. Or something like that. As my dad says, the art to writing is applying the seat of the pants, to the seat of the chair.
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Oliver Dale
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He went easy on you. You should try pumping it out in an afternoon.

*grumble*

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Diosmel Duda
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I have to say I love this thread. [Smile]
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Will B
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Maybe we SHOULD be pumping them out in shorter time periods. After all, the more you write, the more garbage you get out of the way, right?

Since you can't post images here, drop by http://youwillknow.blogspot.com for my notes from today's class!

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Zarex
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I actually derived far more pleasure from the cybernetic name game thing.
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Will B
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Zeta Artificial Replicant Engineered for Xenocide! Aighee!
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Zarex
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Well, I've changed my mind about which story idea to use in class. I'm going to use the "Wrong Way Corrigan" template for my first story. I've also decided that I really need to reread the Characters and Viewpoint section on third person limited since I mauled that exercise. But so far the story is going well. It helps that my dad is an English teacher and thus can help me when I make stupid mistakes.
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Will B
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Class is on hiatus for 2 weeks (I think).

I shouldn't say this *has* been a great class, since it isn't over... but it feels close. And it has been a great class.

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Orson Scott Card
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Yeah, Will, easy for YOU to say. You already got your A, and you don't even CARE about the grade.
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Will B
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I give all my students A's! A hard time, or A quiz, or A question when they're falling asleep ...
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Zarex
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Yeah, well it does have the effect of inducing awe or jealousy in the other students when professor Card offers you a publishing deal right in the middle of class.
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Crotalus
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Will is the Ender of his class! Ha!
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Will B
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Oh, you're embarrassing me. Do it again.
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Scott R
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:gives Will B a wedgie:
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