posted
"The thing is, the masses have a code all their own, and Card doesn't get it. (Part of the code is that sexual promiscuity is comedic rather than tragic.) Kanye West does get it, so his art ends up being far more accessible than Card's, despite mostly being worse."
Even in the most extreme interpretation of "inaccessible=bad", the inverse would never be true, i.e. "accessible=/=good". Inaccessibility might an obstacle to value in art, but the value does not come from the accessibility.
Card's worldview in his fiction is comprehensible and his message is clear. The fact that you know that Card finds promiscuity to be undesirable means you were able to access one of the meanings of his art.
BTW, Card thinks "Two and half men" is a good show. Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Clumpy: Do you think Card's work is impacted by the fact that he mostly goes by the real-life consequences of things like sexual promiscuity (tragedy) rather than the manufactured ones that only exist in popular media?
What manufactured consequences are you referring to, exactly?
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Sep 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Clumpy: Do you think Card's work is impacted by the fact that he mostly goes by the real-life consequences of things like sexual promiscuity (tragedy) rather than the manufactured ones that only exist in popular media?
Actually he goes off of the theoretical and impersonal consequences of things like sexual promiscuity. All of his writing about the improvement of society, with rare exception, discounts the importance of individual cases, and talks about the general shapes of society- this allows him to ignore and discount his personal relationships with homosexuals, the testimony of individuals who do enjoy and value hip-hop music or post-tonal music, and the opinions of pretty much anyone who disagrees with him on anything. On the one hand, the power of anecdote is dangerous, but the blinding power of a totally theoretical perfect world is just as bad... or worse.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Do you think Card's work is impacted by the fact that he mostly goes by the real-life consequences of things like sexual promiscuity (tragedy) rather than the manufactured ones that only exist in popular media?
Impacted? Of course. Whether the impact is for good or for ill, it does put him out of step with a large segment of the public.
Almost no art portrays sex in a fully true-to-life manner. (If it did, it'd be a lot less watchable/readable.) That goes for OSC's books as well as rap music. Each distorts the subject matter in its own way, to its own effect. Many people nowadays are more comfortable with humorous portrayals of sex than weighty ones. (Witness the popularity of Superbad/American Pie type movies.)
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Eduardo_Sauron: OSC formed his musical tastes in a time when such devices as mp3 devices and the internet didn't exist. We shouldn't forget that, Blackblade.
Good point. I'd say though that a thorough grounding in classical music, gospel, and pop music as well as whatever he picked up while living in Brazil is more than enough foundation for extensive taste in music. Perhaps this isn't the case but I think it's well within the realm of possibility.
Mucus: It would be hard to me to say everything I am into. It's almost more worth it to say what I'm NOT into. Oddly enough I didn't listen to anything outside classical music and whatever my parents listened to until high school. Radiohead, Jimmy Eat World, X Japan, Black Crows, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Dandy Warhols, Rage Against The Machine, Beethover/Rachmaninov is a pretty good list for describing the breadth of my tastes. The music that was current amongst the popular kids at my school never appealed to me.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
BB: I agree that a background in the genres you list would certainly constitute "extensive" taste in music. However, none of the genres you list (assuming we're excluding hip-hop from "pop") necessarily prepare one to critique hip-hop in an informed manner. As several people have pointed out in this thread, the qualities by which hip-hop is judged to be good or bad by its listeners can be very different from "traditional" measures of musicality like melodicism or dynamics.
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
(For the record, I was just curious if BB picked up much music from Hong Kong or Malaysia rather than making any point about non-Asian music in general or hip-hop in specific.
My mind doesn't really process hip-hop as music* so I'm entirely divorced from that part of the conversation.
* Which is not intended as a knock against hip-hop, I'm sure many people do and enjoy it. I have entirely no problem with that)
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Mucus: I do have have a small place in my heart for Mayday (Wu Yue Tian.) They are a Taiwanese rock band that temporarily broke up because all four of them started reaching conscription age. It was kinda...cute? I can't think of a better word for it. I need to look up and see if they have cut an albums recently. I don't think I'd like Daft Punk if I hadn't grown up in Hong Kong now that I think about it.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Oddly enough I didn't listen to anything outside classical music and whatever my parents listened to until high school. Radiohead, Jimmy Eat World, X Japan, Black Crows, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Dandy Warhols, Rage Against The Machine, Beethover/Rachmaninov is a pretty good list for describing the breadth of my tastes. The music that was current amongst the popular kids at my school never appealed to me.
