posted
First, I am going to describe my feelings about recent events that have occured within the Hatrack River forums (I didn't really want to add to the debates in the other threads). If you would like to go straight to the purpose of the thread, proceed beyond the line below.
:No names will be used in these initial statements, but if you can't figure out who they are (were unaware of the events), read on:
Summary (as I saw things) A. One poster (#1) made some negative comments about another poster's (#2) religion some time ago. B. #1 later made a critique about #2's the website design for his on-line magazine. C. #2 reacted harshly toward the comments despite the attempts from #1 to apologize. D. #1 stated that they were very likely going to discontinue their posting in the forum.
My opinions.
As I stated, I think the origin of the problem lies on an attack on someone's belief system. If anyone has been watching the news at all for the past ten years or read Clash of the Cultures they will know what can result from this kind of attack on a large scale. Beliefs are a fundemental part of who we are and why we make certain decisions. For those that have seen Serenity, the entire story centers around the beliefs of one group conflicting with the beliefs of a government. You cannot expect any immediate restitution to be successful after you attack someone's beliefs.
I firmly believe that this contributed to the reaction by Orson Scott Card. Whether or not TomDavidson meant any harm by his comments about the website or not, the fact is, much of what he said was colored by his previous posts.
I'm not going to try and judge whether OSC reacted to harshly, or whether TD was too disrepectful in his comments. I haven't read every single post both of them have made. Still, the line between critique and disrespect is covered in fog. One of them may see it one way, while the other sees it another.
Anyway, despite why everyone said what they did, I believe that everyone should just drop the subject. It happened. Get over it. Yes, this is very hippocritical of me to say this after I just talked about it, but let it be one of the last things said about it.
Now, to move on to the actual point of this thread. -------------------------------------------------
Okay, as my first thread on Hatrack I wanted to ask everyone how they came to Hatrack, why they stayed, and what they have gotten from the website.
I, personally, learned about it through my sister. She kind of got me into Orson Scott Card books, and then told me about the website. While she never posts on forums, or reads them for that matter, it's because of her that I found the forums.
At first, I found myself posting specifically to get an answer from OSC. I was, at the time, on a big forum kick, and I mostly posted just to see how people responded. Soon I found the writer's workshop and posted a few stories that I have started writing. Right now I have dropped every other forum I belonged to and mostly read specifically at Hatrack (posting sparingly).
There are many things that I can thank the Hatrack website for. Improving my writing is definitely at the top of the list. The writing workshop and OSC's essays have given me a greater sense of personality to my characters and feeling to my writing. Some other things are the opportunity to go to an OSC book signing in Bountiful, Utah, and many of the movies I go to are ones reviewed positively by Scott (Serenity being my current favorite).
Anyway, please keep this discussion close to the main purpose of the thread. For those that want to start a debate with me, I'm telling you now that I don't plan on posting in this thread again. Happy Halloween in three weeks.
posted
I came to Hatrack because I liked the Alvin Maker books and heard that there was a RPG sort of thing happening. Sadly, when I found it, I was a bit underwhelmed with what was there at the time and never really got "into" that side of the forum. But I stayed because Anne Kate Ard, D. Michael Martindale, and Morgan Majors (not all their real names) were fascinating conversationalists, and I profoundly enjoyed being exposed to a wide variety of well-articulated and very diverse viewpoints.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
So a lot of you probably don't know me. Hi, and all that.
I started coming to Hatrack after coming across it while doing a project for school on one of OSC's books. I got my information and left, but wandered back and started reading the 'Uncle Orson Reviews Everything" column. Later, I joined the forum, but mostly I just lurk, and read when I'm interested in things. (Serenity, for example.)
The reason why I never really got into posting is just that it was so overwhelming. See, there's this other forum I post at a lot, and it's *really small.* Only a couple posts a day, and a little bit of chatting on the powerwall. However, the community is so close knit, it's like my second family. Some of you might feel like that about Hatrack, in which case I know how you feel. All of the people at this other forum are considerably older than I am, but they're excellent conversationalists. They can talk to me about things that my peers wouldn't, like politics, history, books, and music. I've met many of them in person since of joined, and overall it has been a really wonderful experience.
I still come here, though. I've posted a few times, extremely rarely. I am amazed at the sheer size of it all - in comparison, this site is huge, and moves so fast, yet you all seem to know what's going on. (even if you don't....hee) I've read about some really interesting things here, gotten to know a little bit more about OSC, and I would care about it were it to shut its doors.
So, there's my two cents. Hatrack through the eyes of a lurker. Posts: 17 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I came after I read Ender's Game in eighth grade. I spent a while over in the Young Writers' section (eventually I got a name over here and lurked a bit). Then I did a full migration when Young Writers' Workshop shut down.
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I came here originally because I have come to think very very highly of Ender's Game, after having discovered the book just after graduating high school.
If you want a complete (and by complete I mean extremely long) answer as to why I keep coming back to Hatrack, read my landmark, which I wrote in a large part as a response to that question. But if you want the condensesd version, I consider sharing thoughts with other people and other viewpoints to be very meaningful. Hatrack is one of the best places I know for that.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Card is my favorite author and I love just about everything he says. Sometime back around '96 or '97 I joined because it looked like fun. I got flamed so much (via email) for so silly things (my opinion on Ender's Game movie music and space physics... I still can't believe what the person said to me). So I quit.
Ever since EnderCon everytime OSC comes to town half the people attending are active on the forum. It made me feel left out. So I made another attempt to come back. Nobody ever replied to what I said so I lost interest and quit again. Forums aren't my thing either. I prefer mail lists because the messages end up in the inbox and are harder to ignore. Visiting a webpage has always been too much trouble for me (this is the only forum I visit regularly). But my mom started lurking and would tell me stuff. So since then I kinda got to know the people here from her.
Then a few months ago I went to a signing and saw a few of the people here and decided they weren't so bad. And I've always wished I could be a part of Card's world, and none of my other attempts got me in. So what the heck, I'd try the forum again.
Since then I've even made a few friends, so I think I'll keep coming even if someone flames me again like they did before. (I think it was a little more lawless back then... As much as some people are complaining about some of the threads right now, they don't compare at all to the flaming I got... The worst here seems like downright kindness compared to what I remember of the forum in the 90's.)
Posts: 1209 | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I came fairly randomly. I was bored at work, and was googling the names of authors I liked (well, not googling really, Google wasn't around yet). I noticed that this site had a forum attached, and decided to check it out. Dmichael was posting some things that I found utterly ridiculous, and I created an account so that I could post a refutation of what he'd said. By then, it was too late--I was hooked.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, I misread the verb tense in the original question. I think that I come here now out of force of habit, as much as anything. I definitely am not as enamored of the forums as I once was. That comes and goes though. I expect I'll drop off of them for a while, and if they're still here when my interest quickens again I'll come back. It's happened before.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I came here first a week or so back after traveling around the world and getting in to the Homecoming and Alvin Maker series to pass time on long international flights. I wish the flights were longer! I first posted here with a specific question about the Homecoming series. Responses came very quickly. I keep coming back without posting just to try to get to know people who also like OSCs writing. One amazing thing I find reading Homecoming (nearly finished Vol 4) is that if I read before going to bed I ofter dream about what may come up in the next few chapters. (Oversoul is getting to me!) so now I try to read in the morning before work, but I work from home so I have to be very disciplined NOT to read during the day. I think I am driving my family mad raving about these books and from what I read these arent as good as the Ender series. Cannot wait to get stuck in to them! Thank you OSC!
Posts: 3 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote: Hatrack I love YOU! I love your style and your grace. I love your simplicity. I love how easy every thread is to get to and how clear and to the point it all is. I love how there are no annoying pictures all over the place like in other forums. No signatures, no big silly boxes. I love that Orson talks to us here! I love that we really are more like a "community" than any other online place I've seen. I love the way everyone is valued and treated well-and if they're not, there's always people to stick up for them.
Same as everyone else. Stumbled across it, and liked it.
Why do I come to Hatrack?
It's the only place in my life where there's interesting discourse between intelligent people. It's not always interesting, and we're not always intelligent, but still more of both than in real life.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I came cuz I was trying to find out if there was going to be a book after shadow of the hegemon and found this site. i started posting on the forum to settle my bordom with filling my starvation of curiosity.
Posts: 112 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I came here to find out if there were going to be any more ender series books after SotG. It was weird, I was all depressed when the book ended, especially since (I think it said) that it would be the last one. So I searched Orson Scott Card and Enders game on the 'net, and eventually ended up here. Where I was greatly relived to find out that there would be more.
Posts: 879 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I landed here in a very original fashion. I was stumbling through the net, looking for some quizzes for a friend (who studies psychology) and came across quizzilla. I was horrified because 70% of the quizzes there are the "would you be my perfect boyfriend?" type. So I had the stupid idea of creating a quiz about Ender's game, which is a book that deeply moved me when I read it. So I did the quiz and started looking for support (people to take it and rate it) to make it rise above the "What is your love element?"-like quizzes.
And where to find people interested better than here? So here I am, specially after I discovered that OSC actually posts here. I find that very interesting.
posted
I first came here in the late nineties, I think, because I am a fan of OSC. I think I read about the site in the acknowledgments of one of his novels.
I read the stuff on the front page, and all I found forum-wise was the Hatrack River 1830s game. I thought about participating, but read a thread or two and just wasn't interested. For several years after this, I read OSC's reviews of books and other stuff, and Uncle Orson's Writing Class, and that was it.
In 2001 or 2002 I went to a book signing and, in addition to meeting OSC and Kristine, who were charming, I met Bob_Scopatz and Chris Bridges. Bob chatted with me in line, and encouraged me to check out the forum. I decided to give it another look, and that was that.
I fell in love with posting here because I felt very warmly welcomed. In particular, I really got a lot out of the diversity of opinion here, and the respectful discourse. Most writers tend to attract a slightly liberal audience. As a Mormon and a Christian, though, Card also attracts a somewhat conservative audience, and there seemed to be a respectful coexistence here. I have never found a forum that duplicated that successful diversity. That was why I came to Hatrack.
Why do I come to Hatrack?
In the last couple of years, I believe that respectful coexistence has been damaged. Some people will say that this is a faulty "golden age" perspective on my part. Others will say that this is a cyclical thing. Fair enough. All I can describe to you is my perspective and what I believe.
A lot of people I used to love to interact with have had the same observation and stopped posting here. I miss them; even when I can still interact with them elsewhere, I miss them in this context.
What has hurt in particular is the assertion, common throughout Hatrack lately, but particularly so on this side, that if you ever express disagreement with OSC's politics, then you are not really a fan of his, you are not really friendly to him, and you are only posting here out of some twisted desire to make yourself feel powerful by Unmaking OSC.
I feel sometimes like some posters here would like to require a loyalty test before you can belong. Hey, I'm as much of a fanboy as anybody here. I've got all the novels. The writing books. The storybook. The poetry book. The religious book. But I never believed Hatrack was about fanboys. What I valued here was our discussion, not our adulation for Card. Is that disrespectful?
(There's more than this, of course. I don't want it to seem that I'm blaming conservatives, or newbies, for the decline I see. I think in general we have become less respectful of other points of view, and that includes some conservatives and some liberals. And I think it's because many of us Hatrackers are now members of a given party or label first, and friends second, if at all.)
It has soured me on Hatrack a little. I don't post as much as I used to. It's either that, or find myself behaving in ways that I don't want to, when I see people, in my perception, tearing down the Hatrack that I love. So I take little vacations, and come back when I think I can.
So. Why do I come to Hatrack?
I come to Hatrack because of Bob_Scopatz, Chris Bridges, Orson Scott Card, Kristine Card, zgator, Ela, JaneX, Shlomo, Narrativium, pH, jeniwren, Leto II, Frisco, Leonide, Strider, Rakeesh, SingingRing, coil, Papa Moose, LadyDove, saxon75, Juliette, TomDavidson, Christy, dkw, ElJay, Enigmatic, Poseable Nurse, Krabby Patty, CaySedai, Farmgirl, IvyGirl, rivka, Valentine, Xavier, katarina, BannaOj, fugu13, Punwit, plaid, shigosei, mackillian, T_Smith, Kwea, JenniK, and VelourMan.
No, I'm not turning this into a popularity thread. Those are by no means all the quality posters of Hatrack. But they are the ones I've met. (I am nagged by the thought that I've left off at least one person from BobNDanaCon. My apologies if so.) Buried in that list are people I consider to be among the greatest friends I know. And I met them here. That's damned special. That list includes families. It includes spouses, including a pair that never would have met were it not for Hatrack. I think that a community that can spawn relationships such as those is damned special.
I come to Hatrack also because of the people who are not yet on that list, but whom I intently want to add to it.
The people I have met who are committed to creating the community that works, the community of mutual respect and friendship, are some of the most enjoyable people I have ever met, because they are intelligent, weird in all the ways I am weird, different in all the ways that make them interesting, and they share some common interests, including science fiction and OSC.
Why do I come to Hatrack? Because Hatrack has given so much to me. I don't think I can possibly quit on the place. When I am tempted to, I think of all it has given me.
Tom is more of an altruist than I am. I'm not staying out of a desire to pay it forward. I am staying because I want more. And if I can help make Hatrack good--still or again, I don't care which--then that's great. But I stay for purely selfish reasons.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
You forgot the part where person number whatever insulted the others wife, and also the part where other owns the website.
Landmarks were very important to me at one time. I've noticed that some people who have very high post counts don't do landmarks very much. There are some exceptions. One poster with a very high count does a landmark pretty faithfully every thousand. Another did only one, but it was so (insert adjective) that I can understand why other landmarks haven't been a priority for them. Windows XP prevented me from hitting my last landmark, but it kind of didn't seem like good timing, first because of the hurricane stuff and the "recent events" transpired. I think I will post future landmarks on this side, though it may take ages before that happens again, do to the relative slowness.
Anyway, before I was into landmarks I came to Hatrack because I love OSC's writings. And the Dobies. And some other people who don't post here very much.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote: You forgot the part where person number whatever insulted the others wife
Keep in mind that this never happened. In fact, person number whatever defended the other's wife, the other misread the defense -- apparently missing a "not" and a few other words in the sentences at the time -- and posted an angry reply, and the other's wife apologized to person number whatever because she understood what he had actually said.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
SoccorSprout91 you rock. I started a thread a while ago asking "anybody like Moxy" and then a short summary of my love of Moxy Frouvous and how awesome their live shows are. I've never seen that FruHead message board but I fully intend to post the crap out of it now that I do.
Posts: 484 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I love smart people. And charming people. And warm people, and witty people, and friendly people, and sarcastic people, . . . and passionate people. Put lots of passionate people in one room together and you're bound to get sparks -- and we get lots of sparks. Even though some days it gets a bit too hot for me, I've decided that I value the sparks. I value the debate. And while I don't often feel smart enough or informed enough to participate, I love those people that do -- I love getting to 'evesdrop' on intelligent discussions.
(((Hatrack)))
I love you guys!! Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Left off again? That's three months in a row. I'm starting to think it's more than just a coincidence. Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I joined the forum so I wouldn't feel left out. I haven't gotten the mail list either! I feel left out, once again. Posts: 1209 | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I wandered over from Nauvoo. I stayed because I like the people. And the silliness. And also because apparently it is my destiny to drink the water.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ramdac99: SoccorSprout91 you rock. I started a thread a while ago asking "anybody like Moxy" and then a short summary of my love of Moxy Frouvous and how awesome their live shows are. I've never seen that FruHead message board but I fully intend to post the crap out of it now that I do.
Actually, i was planning on posting a thread like that here. I remember reading a thread where OSC mentioned that he liked They Might Be Giants, who are similar to Früvous in many respects. Many of my friends who like one like the other as well, so I was curious.
Sadly, I never got to see them live - they stopped touring when I was about 11...
Posts: 17 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm only here now because of certain recent events. Normally I just don't have any interest in this place. Even when Anne Kate was posting, which sorta makes me feel guilty.
Ah, well. Soon enough I won't really have any time, so I'll go away and wait for something even more terrible to happen before coming back.
Posts: 763 | Registered: Aug 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
To be honest I first came a while ago when I heard the first anouncements of the movie for Enders Game - at the time I thought "DAMN I don't care what I do I just want to be invovled somehow" and then now I talk about things that interest me and keep my ear open for anything EG Movie Related.
Posts: 129 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well I go to a school named The Science Academy Anywho, for the summer reading we had to read "Enders Game". After starting it 2 days before our class had a test on it i started to read. I did read it on time for the test. Afterwards I saw kids walking around with a book called "Ender's Shadow" I saw Enders name in it and I asked "Hey What's That Book?" (yes I do capalize every first letter when I speak) "Oh its the book after Enders Game" "Wow Theres Two Books?" "Well no I think there is more" <opens book to about the 3rd page and starts counting> "theres 7 books." "Wow I'm Going To The Libary To Check Out That Book" Well after reading "Enders Sahdow, Shadow Of The Hedgemon, Shadow Puppets, Shadow of the Giant, and Speak For The Dead" each in two days I finally read one of the after words of Shadow of the Giant and I saw the Website and Mr.Card talking about how a bunch of people on these forums know more about his books then he does. There I was the next day registering.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I can't remember the first time I heard about Orson Scott Card and his works, but Ender's Game references kept popping up as I was browsing the Internet, not to mention his involvement in the Advent game series.
A few weeks ago, I decided to give him a shot by reading his most famous piece of literature, which obviously happens to be Ender's Game. I quickly became addicted, and returned the book to its proper school library(sadly, after I knew my stepdad had a personal copy-it would've saved me the trouble!). After finding out my stepdad's appreciation for Andrew "Ender" Wiggin's first exploits, it turned out that he also owned a copy of Speaker for the Dead, which I have also finished.
It doesn't stop there, though. Another book by OSC was also present in my stepdad's small fiction library(take that figuratively)-Treason. I'm not finished with it yet, but I'm going to finish it before starting my newly-purchased copy of Xenocide. Most of the other Ender series books are conveniently present at the school library, among a few others, so I won't have to buy those to experience them.
As you can tell in this very first post of mine, it took only a few weeks to develop a slight obsession with OSC's work.
Oh, and how I got here? Wikipedia is quite convenient.
Posts: 3 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
i don't remember why I'm here, I'm confused and lonely...
IP: Logged |
posted
I came because I liked OSC's books. Every day I ask why I continue to return because I don't like anyone here, and hate a few. Maybe I like self-punishment.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Perhaps maybe it is deep down inside I expect to come here and see the make-up of this place change to something more in tune with OSC's opinions and viewpoints. Perhaps its not self-punishment as it is self-delusion.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote: Every day I ask why I continue to return because I don't like anyone here, and hate a few.
What I find baffling, Occasional, is why you assume that you would like people here if suddenly this forum more closely reflected OSC's opinions and viewpoints. Even assuming that your viewpoints nearly mirrored his own, it seems unlikely that a forum made up of people who agreed with you would really be all that great a place to hang out. Why is friendship contingent upon agreement?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have deep seated, probably never-to-be-reconciled disagreements about some of the most fundamental things in life with many of the people I like most here.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote: I have deep seated, probably never-to-be-reconciled disagreements about some of the most fundamental things in life with many of the people I like most here.
I like it that way. Makes life interesting. Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
TREASON! Its the death penalty for ye! *grabs a noose*
IP: Logged |
posted
There's someone I have a deep seated disagreement with! I don't agree with the death penalty! (especially for me) Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't know what I'd do in a forum filled with people who agreed with be about everything. What would we do, have hug threads all day? [shudders violently with nausea]
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
