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We all know the basis for the stories and the importance that they have within the Enderverse, but has anyone ever wanted to read the books as "Ender" has written them? To read them as the characters have?
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Of course! The problem is I doubt anyone, even OSC, could write them. The books are portrayed as almost religious in their power over human society.
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Yes they would need someone at least as smart as Ender to write them......those type of people are hard to fine in reality.
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"Of course! The problem is I doubt anyone, even OSC, could write them. The books are portrayed as almost religious in their power over human society."
OSC knows how to write powerful prose. I imagine what would hold him back from writing the full text of those books is that the power of those books isn't in the prose, but in the context.
The Hive Queen and The Hegemon transformed what people thought they knew about some hugely significant events in human history: the destruction of the buggers, and the Hegemony that Peter established. I don't think OSC would have portrayed these stories to have as much power if they weren't tied to such momentous events.
The Life of Human was important because of the impending destruction of Lusitania, as well. Yet it was less transformative, and therefore more subtle in its effect on humanity.
Ender's unusual empathy was crucial, of course. But OSC invents his characters; he knows them more intimately than even Ender could know them, so lack of insight isn't going to hobble OSC in writing out the actual text of The Life of Human or The Hive Queen. What he can't create is the proper context for those books to powerfully transform our understanding, or the richness of historical detail that lets the future inhabitants of the Enderverse understand that transformation after the fact.
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But why would he need to write those books? We already know all three stories, as all three are played out in the series. We know what Ender knows when he finds the last Formic egg. We know the life of the Hegemon from the continuation of the Bean story line, and we know the entire life and death of Human in the continuation of the Ender saga.
Seems like we already have those stories. Writing them out in detail would still be pretty repetitive especially since none of them are really from the individual character's point of view. They are written by Ender, so we see the events from his perspective and interpretation of the events. They are in a sense, Ender 'speaking' for those dead individuals.
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Yes, I have definitely wanted to read them. Everyone has made some good points on why that'll probably never happen though. Either way, I still have the desire, no matter how delusional, to have the manuscripts in my hand.
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I would like to read them as well. However, I think they would be more interesting if someone other than Card wrote them. I think if he wrote them they wouldn't seem distinct enough from the rest of the story. I don't know... I doubt we'll see them any time soon though!
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quote:Originally posted by scifibum: "Of course! The problem is I doubt anyone, even OSC, could write them. The books are portrayed as almost religious in their power over human society."
OSC knows how to write powerful prose. I imagine what would hold him back from writing the full text of those books is that the power of those books isn't in the prose, but in the context.
That, and the fact that he has indicated he won't write them.
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I wouldn't write them either if I was him. Our imaginations of how they are supposed to be would mean his failure even if he was able to do them in the best way possible.
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Exactly. It is much easier to describe the effects of a piece of writing or art than to create such effects on your own with a piece. Especially since none of us live in the world in which these books exist, they wouldn't have the same power over us. It's like reading Uncle Tom's cabin today, vesus reading it when it was written.
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Yes, I would like to read them but as others have said it is easier to describe them in action in the story than to write the whole story out.
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I'd want to read them, but the thing is, you already know what they're going to say. Additionally, such a project wouldn't get much attention because it's hard to sell a book like that. Sure it would sell in the Enderverse. But in reality, you'd have to have already read at least Ender's Game to want to read anything by the Speaker for the Dead. Then you have to make the target audience even more narrow for not all who have read Ender books will want to read the Speaker's books. All three stories are basically told to you in the series, but I think the least interesting one would be The Hegemon because his story is told throughout the Shadow series with some references to it in the Ender series. So if it were to happen, it would probably just be as short stories, perhaps in the InterGalactic Medicine Show.
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Well, there's something else to it, as well.
Tolkein, for instance, would write about characters or places, etc. and describe them as being the most beautiful or the fairest, etc. Since what is most beautiful and fair is often subjective, it works fine to say this and leave a few vague descriptions in. One's imagination would fill in the rest.
Card describes these books as being powerful, evocative, and life-changing. By describing them as such, we can suspend our disbelief as to the effect they have on the society portrayed in the novel. However, were he to write it, some people would invariably love it, while still others would find it lacking (look at the review thread for EiE!!!). Those that find it lacking would then have to deal with the resulting loss of their belief that these books could be so powerful.
Still, I remember the prose of the excerpt from the "Life of Human" in the final book. I found it to be moving to a high degree.
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I think OSC could definitely write them. But as stated by others before me, the books he already wrote are basically what those books are, plus more. We, as readers, get a sort-of God-like perspective on what happens in the story, so for him to write the books would act as a novelty for us readers, rather than a clear insight into the Enderverse. Now I guess the question is this: Would the novelty sell?
My answer: I would buy them and read them.
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..He could. He should. I would buy and read them. I think the dialogs between Ender and the Hivequeen, and the Hivequeen and Human, in the begining of each chapter in, I forget which book (Xenocide, Children of the Mind, Speaker of the Dead) were wonderful and could be turned into the start of the Hivequeen and the Life of Human.
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I think that a lot of the problem is that the "people" affected by the books have lived in fear of the formics for a long time. A book can't simulate that greatly enough to have any impact.
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..And I disagree with you and OSC. His previous writings in fact prove that he could wright a comprehensive and compelling version of Hivequeen/Hegemon/Human/Jane. Thus, what is already established out weighs and proves wrong your feeble theory that you don't think he could write them.
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Feeble. Nice. You throw around the word "prove" pretty liberally there.
OSC is completely capable of writing a book and calling it "The Hegemon", and then writing a second book and calling it "The Hive Queen".
Those would not be the books as they exist in the Enderverse.
The Hivequeen and the Hegemon are fictional books that exist in a fictional world. Those are books that, within that world, had an effect on society and humanity and history over the course of several millenia that was almost supernatural. A real book in the real world could never live up to the fictional reputation that OSC has created for it. In fact, no matter how great it was, it would ultimately be disappointing - because it can't live up to that.
OSC knows that, and that is why he'll never write them. It's for this same reason that he will never commission someone to create a work of music based on Songmaster.
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..Of course those books couldn't live up to that standard in the sense of altering the perception of the world and declaring a child a xenocidal monster. You know why? Because the book wouldn't be for the world. It would be for the fans of the Enderverse. And if wrote properly (in the styles I have mentioned above, which also incidentaly prove that that style of writing CAN be done) the fans of the Enderverse could recognize how a book like that could have changed a fictional society's perception of a fictional happenstance.
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Antronics, you have a bizarre sense of the meaning of words... You've not managed to "take apart" anything of Sean's.
You've not convinced anyone of anything other than the fact that you personally would buy the books if OSC wrote them. Which isn't particularly significant.
Not only that but you also say that the start of these books could be made of dialogues that chronologically took place long after Hive Queen and Hegemon were supposedly written.
Even if you only meant the *style* of the dialogues, not the actual dialogues, that's not what we're told of the books: We're told that that "It was written as if the hive-queen spoke, telling all that they had meant to do, and all that they had done." I.e. not as a dialogue, but as a monologue.
By your own admission, therefore, the books you would want aren't the books as existing in the Enderverse itself.
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..The point I was making is that OSC is completely capable of writing the hivequeen talking and conveying a beautiful set of ideas. I don't know about the rest of you, but the hivequeens dialogs are some of my favorite words ever wrote. The essence of that is what I was saying could be turned into the Hivequeen/Hegemon.
No Aris Katsaris, not the exact words that are present in the already published books.
And I believe that my point remains:
OSC has already wrote some "speakings", which is exactly what Hivequeen/Hegemon would be.
OSC has a great intimacy with the Formics, so I'm sure he cold convey their story perfectly well in Hivequeen.
And furthermore, I believe that most of you are confused about the scope of these books. You say that OSC could never write the books because of the lore surrounding them. It's not a far stretch that any book wrote that contains the message "we were wrong about the buggers. they were actually good people. we just commited xenocide" to a convincing level wold make a good number of the population realize they were wrong, as long as they had a scapegoat to point their fingers at.
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If your point is that OSC can write versions of the The Hive Queen and The Hegemon, and of course they won't affect contemporary real audiences as much as the fictional inhabitants of the Enderverse, because we're not them and they aren't us, I think we're all with you there. You probably can let that point rest, well made if not appropriately targeted.
However, the points that others are making that you seem to be responding to are a bit different. The Hive Queen and The Hegemon were described as very powerful works of literature. Some of us, and evidently OSC himself, don't think the power of those books can be manifested in the real contemporary world. Furthermore, the point of the fictional books was in how they shaped people's understanding. Without the power, they are just biographies. Potentially interesting but not nearly as important.
Unless you have an argument that can show how OSC would be able to affect a contemporary real audience with a telling of The Hive Queen and The Hegemon, to a similar degree to which the fictional Enderverse audience was affected, all you seem to be saying is that you'd like to read whatever Card produces under those titles, and you don't mind the differences.
Because I'm too lazy to rewrite the entire post this might be redundant, but think of it this way. Writing The Hive Queen and The Hegemon can mean writing anything with that title. No argument from anyone here that OSC can do that. (If the group will forgive my speaking for everyone.) But it could instead mean producing the works described in the Enderverse. And that is something very different.
And just to really belabor the point, recognize that it's the same difference between saying I could build a starship named Marge, that looks like the one described in my story "Marge gets superluminal", and actually building a superluminal starship. It's rhetorically crucial to my story that the starship goes really really fast. Anything I build in real life isn't going to live up to what it was in the story.
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If your point is that OSC can write versions of the The Hive Queen and The Hegemon, and of course they won't affect contemporary real audiences as much as the fictional inhabitants of the Enderverse, because we're not them and they aren't us, I think we're all with you there. You probably can let that point rest, well made if not appropriately targeted.
..I think this point would would apply to almost any work of fiction.
quote: However, the points that others are making that you seem to be responding to are a bit different. The Hive Queen and The Hegemon were described as very powerful works of literature. Some of us, and evidently OSC himself, don't think the power of those books can be manifested in the real contemporary world.
I disagree 100%. As I have previously stated, I think that the manner in which the hivequeen, and Human speak, expressing their thoughts, feelings, philosophies, and intentions, is a perfect example of what Hivequeen/Hegemon/Human/Jane books are about, and the same manner that they are described as written in.
quote: Furthermore, the point of the fictional books was in how they shaped people's understanding. Without the power, they are just biographies. Potentially interesting but not nearly as important.
Not nearly as important to who? Are you serious? While reading Ender's game, up to the end, in everyone of our minds, the formics were the enemy. We were cheering for Ender and the jesh to win. That is exactly why these books would be very interesting and just as important to us, the fans, who were in essence, during 4/5ths of Ender's game, the inhabitants of Earth. [/QUOTE]
quote: Unless you have an argument that can show how OSC would be able to affect a contemporary real audience with a telling of The Hive Queen and The Hegemon, to a similar degree to which the fictional Enderverse audience was affected, all you seem to be saying is that you'd like to read whatever Card produces under those titles, and you don't mind the differences.
I believe the argument that I have been saying thus far is sufficient. The books would be a speaking for the dead, for Hivequeen and Human, and a speaking for the life of Hegemon and Jane. And I stick by my Guns that I believe that OSC's magic with a pen could and would make these books affect us, the fans, the same way they are conveyed to have affected the fictional world. And furthermore, I wouldn't be happy with any words printed out. I feel like the style captured with the dialogs between the hivequeen and Human and Ender fit the bill perfectly. Or maybe OSC would choose a different way that might be more approiate. But deffently not just what Card produced.
quote: Because I'm too lazy to rewrite the entire post this might be redundant, but think of it this way. Writing The Hive Queen and The Hegemon can mean writing anything with that title. No argument from anyone here that OSC can do that. (If the group will forgive my speaking for everyone.) But it could instead mean producing the works described in the Enderverse. And that is something very different.
Umm, I think that would go without saying. All along my argument was that I think OSC could write it to the way it was decribed in the enderverse. I've even pointed out why I think that way. I don't think these books fall under the "unwriteable because of the mystacysim(SP?) surrounding them.
quote: And just to really belabor the point, recognize that it's the same difference between saying I could build a starship named Marge, that looks like the one described in my story "Marge gets superluminal", and actually building a superluminal starship. It's rhetorically crucial to my story that the starship goes really really fast. Anything I build in real life isn't going to live up to what it was in the story.
Again, I dont believe these books fall under that kind of mystacysim that your pointing twards.
One last thing before I go. Nice job chopping up what I wrote Sean Monahan. I guess it's easer to knowingly out of context then to bring forth an argument to a discussion.
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You know, if you know you don't know how to spell the word "mysticism," you could always look it up.
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..I knew and I know that I don't know how to spell it but the wife was bugging me to go watch a movie so I figured that the post could handle the few spelling errors.
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quote: However, the points that others are making that you seem to be responding to are a bit different. The Hive Queen and The Hegemon were described as very powerful works of literature. Some of us, and evidently OSC himself, don't think the power of those books can be manifested in the real contemporary world.
I disagree 100%. As I have previously stated, I think that the manner in which the hivequeen, and Human speak, expressing their thoughts, feelings, philosophies, and intentions, is a perfect example of what Hivequeen/Hegemon/Human/Jane books are about, and the same manner that they are described as written in.
See, right here. I don't see how what you're saying relates to what scifibum said. He said, in a nutshell, that OSC's book in the real world would not have the impact that Ender's book had in the Enderverse. You disagreed, and responded about how the characters communicate, and what the books are about. You've made no case here that OSC's book would have that level of impact.
quote:Originally posted by antronics:
quote: Furthermore, the point of the fictional books was in how they shaped people's understanding. Without the power, they are just biographies. Potentially interesting but not nearly as important.
Not nearly as important to who? Are you serious? While reading Ender's game, up to the end, in everyone of our minds, the formics were the enemy. We were cheering for Ender and the jesh to win. That is exactly why these books would be very interesting and just as important to us, the fans, who were in essence, during 4/5ths of Ender's game, the inhabitants of Earth.
Not nearly as important to us. We are not the inhabitants of that Earth, where the inhabitants have been on a pilgrimage of racial-wide, galaxy-spanning repentance for three millenia. We are the inhabitants of this Earth, where the book is fiction. You've made no case yet that OSC's book would have that level of impact.
quote:Originally posted by antronics:
quote: Unless you have an argument that can show how OSC would be able to affect a contemporary real audience with a telling of The Hive Queen and The Hegemon, to a similar degree to which the fictional Enderverse audience was affected, all you seem to be saying is that you'd like to read whatever Card produces under those titles, and you don't mind the differences.
I believe the argument that I have been saying thus far is sufficient.
It's not. You've only claimed that his previous writings have proven as a fact that he could do it. Which they don't. That's tantamount to saying, "I've seen OSC skipping some stones across a pond. Therefore it is a proven fact that he can throw a boulder across the ocean." You've made no case yet that OSC's book would have that level of impact.
quote: The books would be a speaking for the dead, for Hivequeen and Human, and a speaking for the life of Hegemon and Jane. And I stick by my Guns that I believe that OSC's magic with a pen could and would make these books affect us, the fans, the same way they are conveyed to have affected the fictional world.
Affect us in the same way... So you're saying that if OSC wrote them, then 3000 years from now, in the real world, there will be a world-wide religion known as Speaking For The Dead, which will be able to trace its beginning to "The Hive Queen" by Orson Scott Card?
OSC doesn't have a magic pen. He's just this guy, you know? It would take a god to create a book with the impact that Ender's books had in the Enderverse. You've made no case yet that OSC's book would have that level of impact.
The books would not be a speaking for the dead, because the Hivequeen and Human, the Hegemon and Jane never existed.
quote: And furthermore, I wouldn't be happy with any words printed out. I feel like the style captured with the dialogs between the hivequeen and Human and Ender fit the bill perfectly. Or maybe OSC would choose a different way that might be more approiate. But deffently not just what Card produced.
I'm not at all sure why you keep bringing up "style".
quote:Originally posted by antronics:
quote: Because I'm too lazy to rewrite the entire post this might be redundant, but think of it this way. Writing The Hive Queen and The Hegemon can mean writing anything with that title. No argument from anyone here that OSC can do that. (If the group will forgive my speaking for everyone.) But it could instead mean producing the works described in the Enderverse. And that is something very different.
Umm, I think that would go without saying. All along my argument was that I think OSC could write it to the way it was decribed in the enderverse. I've even pointed out why I think that way. I don't think these books fall under the "unwriteable because of the mystacysim(SP?) surrounding them.
Still missing the point. Yes, perhaps he could write it the was it was described in the enderverse. But it would not have the impact that it had in the enderverse. You've made no case yet that OSC's book would have that level of impact.
And when it doesn't, it is the fans of the Enderverse who are likely to be the ones most disappointed. Because we understand how impactful it should be.
quote:Originally posted by antronics: One last thing before I go. Nice job chopping up what I wrote Sean Monahan. I guess it's easer to knowingly out of context then to bring forth an argument to a discussion.
Out of context? Show me how. You agreed with me then explained why you think it so. I don't care why it is so. I care that it is so, and you agreed.
But after all is said and done, I think you've glossed over the most important and prescient statement that scifibum made:
quote: However, the points that others are making that you seem to be responding to are a bit different.
posted
Ultimately though, everything I'm trying to say is summed up pretty well by OSC himself here.
<CCClaudia> Do you think you may ever write "The Hive Queen" and "The Hegemon" as 'companion' novels?
<OrsonCard> Let's see. I state in "Ender's Game" and "Speaker for the Dead" that "The Hive Queen" and "The Hegemon" are books that can change your life and sway world opinion. And now you think I could WRITE such a book? Ha! No thanks. I'm much better off TELLING you how brilliant these books are than I would ever be writing them.
You were right, ElJT. Posts: 1080 | Registered: Apr 2006
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What I am saying is I believe that they CAN be manifested in the real world, BECAUSE I believe the essence of what was written with the dialogs is generally what would be in the books. And as it turns out, those dialogs are already written.
I keep pointing to those dialogs because to me, i feel like they are works of art and fully encompass what the hivequeen/hegemon are supposed to be about. The thoughts and intentions and philosophies. The only difference is the topic of conversation that brings forth the dialog.
Second point:
Know the word empathy? A good fiction writer knows how to invoke the appropriate emotion for the situation. I believe OSC succeeded in that. And even tho "We are not the inhabitants of that Earth, where the inhabitants have been on a pilgrimage of racial-wide, galaxy-spanning repentance for three millenia", as a fiction reader I can conjure up the empathy and piece together the feelings that the folk of the Earth had/has for "Ender the Xenocide", and for "Ender Savior." To be honest, I don't know how you, Sean, read Sci-Fi or any other kind of fiction if you have to ask the questions your asking. To me they seem so obvious.
Point three:
How can I convey what I think the books would make me feel? Or make anyone else feel? I've stated that the inspiration at which I'm drawing on, the dialogs, made me feel wonderful and gave me a lot of happiness, and gave me some insight into the mind of the hivequeen, and Human. I hope and think that the books were talking about would do the same thing. How can the only measure of success for these books be "did they make the real world start a new religion like they did in the fictional world?" That would not happen. But in the fans minds, if the books were written properly, then is it posable that we, the fans, could see, and understand, and agree, on how these books changed the fictional world that we know so well? That I believe is posable. And if you don't think that can happen, don't have the imagination for that kind of thing, then I question your ability as a fiction reader.
Fourth point:
To be honest, I already do question your ability as a fiction reader, Sean. I, when reading books from the Enderverse, that they are fiction. And I enjoy fiction. so, while reading, I go along with the story and believe the things that the writer is saying, if it's written well. But, as a competent person, I am aware of the difference between the real world and the fictional world. So no, Sean, I don't think that 3000 years from now any of what you said will happen. But in the fictional world? The course of events have played out and those things did happen, because of a couple of books. And I would like to read those books.
Fifth point:
Fine, substitute style with essence, characteristic, philosophy, point of view, and demeanor. Better?
Sixth point:
Again, empathy for a fictional world. And If I'm not mistaken, there have been many speakings for the dead in the real world, provoked by the writings found in the Enderverse. So, the impact has kind of already hit, even without the works we're talking about. And how about the speaking that Ender gave in Speaker for the Dead for (I forget his name) his future wife's dead husband? Was that not moving to you? Well, I don't know why you continue to read books in the Enderverse and post on his message board if you were not moved by his work.
Seventh and final point:
"..Of course those books couldn't live up to that standard in the sense of altering the perception of the world and declaring a child a xenocidal monster."
I think you took my post a little out of context. Doesn't matter, I guess we can always agree to disagree. Good discussion tho.
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You know, I was going to respond to each point until I noticed the repeated "questioning of my ability as a fiction reader", whatever that means. As I stated, OSC succinctly sums up the point I'm making. So if you question mine, you question his as well. Go bust his chops for awhile. I weary of this conversion, and I'm done. . . . . . . . . . I HEREBY DECLARE THAT THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT PANCAKES.
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The key to good pancakes is not to overmix the batter. It's hard for some people not to mix it until it is smooth - or at least until the lumps are tiny - but it's worth the effort.
Also, I've found that recipes tend to produce a thick pancake (15-20 mm). I prefer a 7-8mm thick pancake, so I add a little extra water or milk to thin the batter. The wetter batter requires more heat input by volume to convert into a cooked pancake, but it's OK because the batter spreads out more on the griddle, increasing rate of heat absorption. (In fact the increased heat surface contact and evaporative surface area combined seem to make for faster cooking overall.)
It's important to note that you won't know the true thickness of your batter directly after mixing (unless you overmix!), so let the batter rest a minute or two before pouring your pancakes to see if you've achieved your desired consistency.
I live in a dry climate so I might be starting with drier flour (or pancake mix). Those in humid climates might not see any need to thin the batter after following a recipe.
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..Well, it was a good discussion. I enjoyed it throughout. Thank you for the points you brought to the table, Sean. I get the general message that your trying to say, I'm afraid that I might not have been able to elaborate my point of view properly, but I hope that you get where I'm coming from on some level.
I would have liked to continue the discussion, and maybe find out if I'm just a fanboy wanting unrealistic things, but truely I don't think I am. I think that I have a strong point of view that is worth of consideration, with many valid points. And I was looking forward to your comeback of my last post. But it seems that pancakes is a more fitting topic of discussion here on the OSC message boards...way to put this resource and venue to good use!
It's hard to find people to converse about the Enderverse, and it's a little sad that everything I've said on these forums has seemed to be met with resistance. But good discussion non the less, even though I feel like you, Sean, might be a little short sighted when it comes to embracing fiction.
quote:Originally posted by schnirro: ...has anyone ever wanted to read the books as "Ender" has written them?
IIRC, Card has often made the point that he is not Ender Wiggin. So the OP's hypothetical isn't really possible. As far as I'm concerned that's the end of the story, though I do like the somewhat snippy back-and-forth in this thread. Since I have no idea what you're talking about...
1: Please stop the quote splicing. Giving everyone a headache.
2: No. Or, more accurately, yes.
Yes, I want to read them.
No, I don't want them to be written.
Let me put it into an analogy: Yes, after seeing The Matrix, everyone wanted to know what Zion was like. But when it was shown, it was a let down, because it wasn't what people were expecting.
The Hive Queen and The Life of Human would likely turn into Jesus metaphors, and The Hegemon would tell us nothing that the Shadow series didn't say about Peter.
What makes them powerful is what we think they are, and its different for each person, in specifics if not large parts of it.
Or, to bastardize the analogy even further:
The unseen monster in the horror film, to all the watchers, is the most terrifying thing in existence, stalking and dispatching the good guys with terrifying ease. And then the reveal happens, and its just some guy in a weird rubber outfit.
The mystery is what makes it powerful. Show us the whole, and it'll get picked apart before you can say "Indigo Prophecy Syndrome" (gogo Gamer lingo!).
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quote:Originally posted by antronics: ..So CRash, you ever read the dialogs between the hivequeen and Human...?
I don't really see what that has to do with anything I said in my post. I think those are great conversations in the context of the sci-fi novel Children of the Mind, written by Orson Scott Card and published in the 1990s. I enjoy them. However, I still maintain that OSC is not Ender, and therefore he can never write the three Books of Speaking as they are described in the series.
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..Yo I've been post slicing ever since I started going to message boards.
CRash, it was a joke.
Spang, rivka, sorry what I said was giving you a headache, but I love discussing things. That's usually what happens on a message board...
..And with that, I have almost completely been met with hostility since finding this site and posting a message. I hope you all enjoy reading and OSC's work, and also agreeing 100% about any ideas about OSC's work. ::waves::
Posts: 25 | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I think that you might want to take into consideration, antronics, that just because a lot of people are disagreeing with your particular stance on this topic does not mean that all of them are "agreeing 100% about any ideas about OSC's work." Most of us don't.
And you might find this place a bit friendlier if you moderate your sarcasm a touch, because 1. Sometimes people don't get it (like I didn't get your joke) and 2. It tends to rub others the wrong way. After reading through your posts on this thread, the tone in some of them seem rather hostile towards the people attempting to discuss the topic with you. I think what you're calling being "met with hostility" is nothing more than a fair reflection of the tone you are taking towards other posters.
Perhaps you want to review what you've been posting:
quote:Originally posted by antronics: ...what is already established out weighs and proves wrong your feeble theory.
Really looking forward to taking apart another one of your messages...
I believe that most of you are confused about the scope of these books.
Nice job chopping up what I wrote...I guess it's easer to knowingly out of context then to bring forth an argument to a discussion.
Know the word empathy?
To be honest, I don't know how you...read Sci-Fi or any other kind of fiction if you have to ask the questions your asking. To me they seem so obvious.
But, as a competent person, I am aware of the difference between the real world and the fictional world.
...it seems that pancakes is a more fitting topic of discussion here on the OSC message boards...way to put this resource and venue to good use!
It's a little sad that everything I've said on these forums has seemed to be met with resistance.
I love discussing things. That's usually what happens on a message board...
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Most of us don't.
