posted
you know, tom, i used to get big lightning flash revelations from god all the time. but there have been times that i got *nothing.* now i know that it seems like such a cop out to say that there must have been something wrong on MY end, but in all honesty there always has been. but i haven't always figured it out so easily. uhm, at this point i would have to go into a big lecture on the Light of Christ and the Holy Ghost, and the differences and ramifications there of, and i just don't feel adequate enough to do so. but let's just say that since i have grown up it has taken serious softening of my heart and honestly within myself to regain my spiritual footing - and i am not even all the way back.
this is all person experience, not judgment on other individuals. of course.
and i don't really know the point of this post now, but i will push the button anyway.
Posts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Well I have three more questions now. Two that I forgot to ask and one as a clarification.
The first is about the Priesthood (does that need to be capitalized?) Why do only men have the Priesthood?
Clarification question: it was mentioned that you are happiest when your spirit is with a body. After the Second Coming, do you get your original body back in mint condition or how does that work?
Third: is there anyway to get The Book of Mormon without having missionaries come to your house? At Salt Lake they said that if you wanted a copy they’d send over local missionaries with it. I suppose it is kind of selfish to expect to get something for nothing….but I want to!
[EDIT: recently I've been catching my "their" "there" mistakes. Sigh.]
posted
Ohh an another unimportant question that just occured to me (I bet your all thrilled ). If I'm understanding correctly, God and the Intelligences (that we are) have existed for ever. Does this mean since the begining of time, or literally for an inifinite span of time? If the first, is their any explenation for the begining of time? If the second, what occured in all that time, and why did God start his plan up after that amount of time?
posted
I'm not sure why I’m asking more question before my other ones have gotten answered, but….I am.
Did God create the universe as we know it or did it exist before/at the same time He did? If He didn’t, did he create any aspect of it? If He did, did he create any other Earth like planets (that can hold intelligences)? (Note: the above questions are significantly less important than others, but I guess I’m just curious).
How does Mormonism interpret the Bible? Loose translation (metaphors allowed for example) or strict technicality (or some where in between)? Is it the same as The Book of Mormon? How is modern science dealt with? For that question I mean specific examples mainly, evolution, stem-cell research, that type of thing.
I really know nothing about the Hierarchy except the one statement in my previous question about women not having the priest-hood. What are all the steps (up to the top), what does each position entail, and do women have other roles (official ones) within the Church?
[EDIT: Sigh, when am I going to rember to use the preview post button? Aloud is not allowed. ]
Lots of people have guesses, but the only real answer is, that's the way it was set up, and God hasn't told us to change it.
"After the Second Coming, do you get your original body back in mint condition or how does that work?"
I've read impassioned treatises about how you get the EXACT SAME body back, made of the EXACT SAME molecules, but I don't really see the point, especially if cannibals get resurrected And we'd all have SUCH long hair ...
"is there anyway to get The Book of Mormon without having missionaries come to your house?"
Ask a Mormon friend, I guess. Or suck it up and tell the missionaries all you want is the book
"God and the Intelligences (that we are) have existed for ever. Does this mean since the begining of time, or literally for an inifinite span of time? If the first, is their any explenation for the begining of time? If the second, what occured in all that time, and why did God start his plan up after that amount of time?"
Mormons tend to believe that there is no beginning to time, from God's perspective. (Though you could call the creation of our universe a sort of "beginning of time", both we and God have existed outside such events.) The idea is that the creation of worlds and the propagation of moral intelligence through eternal progression has been going on forever, and is essentially the nature and purpose of existence. Anything on a larger scale than that is well outside our perspective.
"Did God create the universe as we know it or did it exist before/at the same time He did?"
The scriptures seem to indicate that God created everything we can see, including other stars.
"If He did, did he create any other Earth like planets (that can hold intelligences)?"
Definitely YES, the scriptures state that explicitly. He has other children in other places that are just as much His children as we are ... though our actual information about them ends there.
"How does Mormonism interpret the Bible? Loose translation (metaphors allowed for example) or strict technicality (or some where in between)?"
Different Mormons read it different ways, and I've seen both extremes. Neither is mandated by our doctrine, so long as we recognize it as the word of God, while also recognizing that it isn't perfect.
"Is it the same as The Book of Mormon?"
The Book of Mormon is considered to be in better shape, textually, but all scripture is limited by the perspectives of its mortal writers.
"How is modern science dealt with? For that question I mean specific examples mainly, evolution, stem-cell research, that type of thing."
Mormons are encouraged to gain knowledge from all sources, not just the scriptures. Mormons run the gamut from Bible-thumping creationists to committed skeptics. Most of us fall somewhere between the extremes.
"What are all the steps (up to the top), what does each position entail,"
The Prophet leads the Church, with input from his two Counselors. Together, they are called the First Presidency.
"Below" the First Presidency are the Twelve Apostles. In the event that the Prophet is indisposed or deceased, the Apostles lead the Church collectively. When the First Presidency is dissolved by the death of a prophet, his Counselors rejoin the other Apostles and continue to help lead the Church. Apostles and Prophets serve for life.
There are other General Authorities of the Church, called Seventies. Some serve for life, while others serve for only a few years at a time. They have a variety of responsibilities over various activities and regions of the church.
Area Authorities hold temporary callings, and lead specific regions (usually including several states or countries).
Stakes (similar to dioceses) are led by a Stake President, two counselors, and a High Council of twelve, modeled after the general leadership of the Church.
Each Stake includes several Wards, led by Bishops, also with two counselors (collectively called a Bishopric). Normally, the only authority a member of the church deals with directly is their Bishopric and the various smaller quorums and auxiliaries within the ward.
There is also a Presiding Bishopric who handles temporal and financial issues for the entire Church.
Got all that? There will be a quiz.
"do women have other roles (official ones) within the Church?"
Every ward has a branch of the Relief Society, which is the oldest women's organization in America run by and for women. The General Presidency of the Relief Society commands much respect, and speaks alongside the Prophet and Apostles at General Conferences of the Church. The organizations for children and young women are also head by women.
posted
it is important to note that the priesthood is neither complete nor whole without women. women share in the power of the priesthood when they are sealed to a man, and a man's priesthood does not reach it's fullness until he enters into the "new and everlasting covenant," which is marriage.
some brethren joke that women don't need the priesthood to keep them in line, heh, who knows it could be partially true.
hobbes, you may actually WANT a couple missionaries to deliver you that book of mormon since you have so many questions. they could try to answer almost all of them for you, and guide you to sources for others. consider it.
edit: whodathunk i could mispell priesthood that many times. yowza.
quote:Third: is there anyway to get The Book of Mormon without having missionaries come to your house?
There is a way that you can kinda cheat. Click on this link and you have all of the LDS canon at your fingertips.
Posts: 4548 | Registered: May 2001
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quote: Definitely YES, the scriptures state that explicitly. He has other children in other places that are just as much His children as we are ... though our actual information about them ends there.
Can you tell me where this is in scripture? Are you referring BOM or the Bible?
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quote:do women have other roles (official ones) within the Church?
Ours is a lay ministry. Women serve as presidents and counselors over the primary (children's organization) and the Relief Society (women's organization). They also teach Sunday School classes, primary and Relief Society classes and speak in Sacrament meeting (our main worship meeting). They also say prayers in any of these meetings. Because the ward is a small unit of the church these same responsibilities would carry into the church as a whole. Hope that made some sense Posts: 1132 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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quote:"Frankly, I feel like I have asked God directly and feel that God has answered me directly."
This is ultimately the part of this conversation that always winds up making me feel very sad and pathetic, indeed.
My major question took a year, if that helps at all. A year of anger, crying, and pleading. A whole year! And I was a missionary almost the whole time!
Seriously, why on earth did it take a whole year? I have no idea. But I am completely sure of my answer. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I have another one! For a sin to be comitted does an action have to take place, or is desire enough? I know Jesus said that you shouldn't hate or commit crimes in your head, but is doing so a sin if you don't carry though?
If it is, does that mean that the desire for someone of the same sex a sin? I don't want to start a whole discussion on homosexuality, so I'll explictly say: LDS thoughts only; not necessarily right or wrong I just want to know the position of the Church. Thank-you.
posted
homosexuality is "punished" (i really dont know what other word to use ) only if entertained. having homosexual intercourse or entering a homosexual relationship is not the only means of entertaining those tendencies, but of course there are degrees to sins and transgressions. so while looking up homosexual pornography is also considered sinful, it is not as heavy as the latter. there are homosexual members of the church that live by the commandments. and to quote my mother, "what, you don't think there are going to be gay people in heaven?"
there is a lot of teaching in the church that deals with the power of thoughts, and how we should strive to keep even our thoughts clean, since actions start from thoughts, etc.
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posted
"For a sin to be comitted does an action have to take place, or is desire enough? I know Jesus said that you shouldn't hate or commit crimes in your head, but is doing so a sin if you don't carry though?"
There's a fine line, in my opinion. We do believe that sinful intentions are harmful -- for instance, if you plot to murder someone and they escape before you get your chance. It's not like you're any less a murderer for having been foiled.
And if you constantly entertain fantasies about sin, and long to commit sin, but are only held back by fear of consequences, then you're still pretty much a sinner.
However, simply having the idea of a sin occur to you is usually unconscious, and if you reject it, then you're probably not going to be in trouble.
"If it is, does that mean that the desire for someone of the same sex a sin?"
Simply having the desire? That's an unintentional thing that I would classify as a temptation, not as a sin. The LDS Church only holds someone directly accountable for what they do about temptations, not which temptations happen to afflict them.
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posted
"You can't stop the birds from flying around your head, but you can sure stop them from building a nest in your hair."
Posts: 6213 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I’m curious why faith is necessary, why God can’t show Himself so that all will know the true path? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If God showed himself, then we wouldn't be able to choose against him would we? We would simply know that he exists. God wants us to choose him, not him give us no other choice. It's all part of free will.
This might have been addressed already, But I dont have time to read all the posts. If God showed himself to everyone, there would also be alot more people with the qualifcations to go to outer darkness.
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posted
When I was in the MTC a few years ago working in the referral center, people who called in asking for a BOM and refused the missionary visit had it mailed to them. I'd recommend that method if you prefer not to deal with talking to missionaries directly (though, unless they've changed the system, they will probably call you a couple more times offering you other free products).
posted
I got a very (read VERY) generous offer from one of the members here to send my the book (free of charge even)! I can’t say thanks enough to them! (I’m not revealing who since they haven’t told anyone else and probably don’t want to get flooded with requests for free books ).
posted
I know the LDS church runs ads around here (on the TV Guide channel) that they will send anyone a free copy of the Bible. Does anyone know if the offer includes the Book of Mormon?
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posted
No, what happens is, the missionaries come to deliver the Bible, then try to give you a Book of Mormon, too Posts: 2048 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
That is why I fear them. They are so cute and sweet. But I would be so embarrassed to invite them in. Y'all really ought to sell some of those somewhere.
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posted
You could always stay at a hotel in Utah. I think that's about the only place I've ever even seen a Book of Mormon.
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posted
I see them in used bookstores all the time.
I always wonder:
Who sells them [I mean if you got it for free from the missionaries that seems kind of gauche]
Who buys them
And why used bookstore owners would pay for a used Book of Mormon [although I imagine they don't pay much for them]
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Well I have a few more. The first is one from Slash's thread (I asked it, I'm not just repeating his question ). If missionary work continues after the Second Coming, does that mean that spirts can change their level at that time?
Does God exist in this universe or outside of it? I saw that we can become Gods; does this occur only after The Second Coming? Was God always God or was he once just like us? If he was just like us and God as well, what distingushed Him from us? If he was like us before being God, what happened?
People have talked about this being a stage in our devolpment and that our body is what helps make us happy; are there any other stages that have the use of a body? Are there any other stages besides before birth and after death (besides the one we're in of course)?
posted
"does that mean that spirts can change their level at that time?"
The official final cutoff is the day of judgment, which takes place at the end of the Millenium (or one thousand years after the Second Coming). So yes, people can "change level" after the Second Coming.
Can they do it after judgement day? I've heard impassioned arguments on both sides of that one. I don't believe we have an official dogma on the matter, beyond acknowledging that the scriptures do not seem to indicate so.
"Does God exist in this universe or outside of it?"
Again, I've heard impassioned arguments on both sides. This one is beyond what we currently understand.
"I saw that we can become Gods; does this occur only after The Second Coming?"
After. Jesus being a notable exception
"Was God always God or was he once just like us?"
He was once like us, though we know no details beyond that.
"If he was like us before being God, what happened?"
One would surmise that He learned from mortality, became perfect, and was resurrected and exalted. But that's just my automatic supposition. The scriptures are mute on the subject.
"are there any other stages that have the use of a body?"
After death all people are resurrected -- ie, they get their bodies back. We believe that God has a physical form similar to ours, though better in a lot of ways When a human being becomes a god, having a perfect physical form is part of that process.
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posted
Wow, I feel like I have my own personal FAQ!
The question about missionaries arose from Amka’s statement that believers continue to spread the Gospel after death. Would this continue after the Judgment?
How exactly does one commune with God? By this I mean both the mechanics of the question and the response one gets.
In the Proxy thread it was mentioned that Baptism is more than symbolic, so I’m curious, does it do anything besides cleansing sin and representing acceptance of the Mormon faith (as if those weren’t enough )?
Why will the Second Coming appear? As in, what would trigger it? Also, what happens to people currently alive, and do more people begin life during the Millennium?
quote:Why will the Second Coming appear? As in, what would trigger it? Also, what happens to people currently alive, and do more people begin life during the Millennium?
I think that general Mormon belief is that the second coming will not be triggered by anything- it is already on a set timeline and will happen as scheduled- just like the first time Christ came.
quote:One more question (it's a biggie): What is required of each Latter Day Saint in their daily lives?
One of my favorite scriptures on this is Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"
How this gets translated into every day activities is of course a very individual process. However, here are a few of the things that the church encourages its members to do: Keep the ten commandments (an obvious place to start), read your scriptures every day both individually and as a family, have a family night once a week (what this entails varies widely), pray often, play basketball at least once a week (OK, so maybe this doesn't apply to everyone), look for opportunities to talk about the gospel with your friends and neighbors (kinda like we are doing now), serve in a calling in the church (what one does varies widely from things like directing the music or teaching a class of 4 year old kids to being the bishop of a ward), help out with service projects when you can (everyone who moves into or out of a ward gets a half-dozen people to help if they so desire), look around your community and do service when you can...
Posts: 4548 | Registered: May 2001
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quote:What if your family isn't Mormon, nor would like to hear anything about Mormons?
Then you get to skip that part.
However, there are a number of things that single folks do together whether they have family in the church or not- for example at most colleges there are groups of students who get together weekly for "family night" to do all sorts of fun things. Then there are wards composed entirely of single Mormons . (In fact there was a very funny movie which came out recently called singles ward, you probably have to be Mormon to understand any of the Jokes though, but I just figured I'd mention it).
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posted
Well, I know I haven't given people that much time, but I wanted to put forward all of the questions I asked that haven't been answered, just to make sure they don't get lost.
quote:The question about missionaries arose from Amka’s statement that believers continue to spread the Gospel after death. Would this continue after the Judgment?
How exactly does one commune with God? By this I mean both the mechanics of the question and the response one gets.
In the Proxy thread it was mentioned that Baptism is more than symbolic, so I’m curious, does it do anything besides
Also, it's been answered, but I wanted a more techincal explenation (since I've already got the spirtual one ) of what Mormons do everyday (to be Mormon, not what jobs they have ).
quote:more techincal explenation (since I've already got the spirtual one ) of what Mormons do everyday (to be Mormon, not what jobs they have ).
A more technical explanation? Huh? Well, church is on Sunday, that lasts for three hours. Jacare covered the prayers and scriptures and family night bit.
I'm not sure what you're looking for exactly. For most of the Mormons you know, they check Hatrack every day. That kind of thing?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
That's kind of what I meant, what exactly goes on at Church? The only explenation I've heard is from Lost Boys. Also, I've heard things about under-garments...? I don't know, that type of thing. Or maybe you told me everything and I just can't believe that is it.
posted
I only read Lost Boys once, and that was late at night. I threw it down the stairs and was too scared to move it until the next day, where I had race to the back of the house to hide it, so I can't remember exactly what it said. It sounded very accurate though.
And Hobbes dear, I'm not discussing my underwear with you. Someone else will have to field that question.
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posted
Hobbes- OK, as to exactly what happens in church:
There are 3 meetings. The first is generally sacrament meeting. The meeting starts with a prayer, then a hymn is sung. Any ward business is announced (ie upcoming potluck dinners, service projects etc). Then comes the youth speaker (some poor kid generally from 12-18 years old who stammers through a five minute talk). Then an adult speaker (there are many possibilities who this could be)then a hymn, the blessing and taking of sacrament (bread and water meant to remind us of the body and blood of Christ), another adult speaker, many a musical presentation thrown in then a hymn and a prayer.
The speakers are usually just members of the congregation whom the bishop or one of his counselors calls a week in advance and asks them to prepare a talk on a given subject.
On the first sunday of the month sacrament meeting consists almost entirely of testimony meeting in which anyone who wants to goes to the pulpit and tells about their experiences with the gospel.
On to the second meeting: Sunday school.
Classes split up based on age (for kids from 0-18) for adults classes are split into Gospel principles for newer members and gospel doctrine for older members. A teacher assigned by the bishopric gives a lesson each week generally based on one of the LDS canon (a different book is studied each year on a rotating four year schedule so the Book of Mormon gets studied every four years as does the old testament etc).
For the third hour the men go to priesthood meeting and the women to relief society while the kids under 12 go to primary (ie singing and activities). Again a lesson is given but this time generally based on the teachings of the modern prophets.
Other meetings: Once a week young men and young women each have activities which include things like going camping or learning to cook or playing basketball. Once a month the relief society holds meetings where they do chick stuff like make decorations or quilts or food or whatever else they decide they want to do. Generally once each month (varies by ward) there is a ward activity of some sort such as a picnic or dinner or what-have-you.
Once each month every member of the ward gets a visit from their hometeacher (priesthood holders assigned to look out for several families). Hometeaching visits generally consist of a short message and an offer to help with whatever the person needs. Sometimes these visits lead to service projects like rewiring a house or collecting food for a needy family.
The relief society sisters also visit each member of the relief society each month.
Once every six months the church has general conference in which the leadership of the church (apostles, prophet, seventy etc) address the entire church. The proceedings are broadcast via satellite, TV, radio and the internet. The next general conference will start this saturday in the morning. If you really are curious about Mormonism there is no better way to learn what it is all about than by watching a few sessions of conference. I highly suggest you have a look- it is broadcast from the church website at www.lds.org
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