Yeah, like never picking up a dictionary, using words incorrectly and continuing to wander through life sounding completely uneducated. Sheesh, learn where capital letters go. Learn where the spell checker is. Learn what the word commend looks like.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:A 10-year-old slides down a zip line at the provocation of older boys with no safeties and only a stick that has a tendency to fail and cause burns and falls.
okay, many things wrong witht hat sentence. I told him of the dangers, that I didn't reccomend it. I told him what the worst that could happen to him was, and he still decided to go down. He learned.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:And no, I'm not blaming the victim. i don't know where the hell you got that idea from. I'm blaming the parents of the victim.
So it's the parent's fault because they didn't teach the ten year old kid to go down a zipline unprotected?? Ah, sorry, I'm not buying it.
First of all, there's a reason we don't teach most ten year olds calculus. Same thing applies here. Although in this case, I'm not sure it's something most people would teach at all.
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:I told him of the dangers, that I didn't reccomend it. I told him what the worst that could happen to him was, and he still decided to go down. He learned.
You still haven't said your age, but I assume you're a bit older than him. Since you knew the risks, you should not have let him go down. From the way you described it, it was your line.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
What if I had been referring to a specific brand name? "Spell Checker, the spell checker you can count on." Huh? Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I find it interesting that you haven't told us how old you are, either. It isn't a rhetorical question.
Posts: 3495 | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Laurenz0, consider what you're saying: you told a ten-year-old of all the possible dangers associated with going down a zip line, then let him do it anyway when he figured he could cope with 'em.
Think about that for a second.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Tom, I think it's pretty obvious that Laurenz0 has had plenty of time to think about his position. I kind of doubt there's any hope of him coming to a different conclusion upon further reflection.
Posts: 4534 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I find this whole thread amazingly funny. I have two sons. The oldest (Robert, 6) just this year got up the courage to get in the pool wearing water wings instead of a boat-worthy personal floatation device. He's always been... cautious.
My younger son (Liam, 3 1/2) has made at least one valliant attempt to kill himself EVERY DAY since he learned to walk. At 16 months he climbed out a ground floor window (six inches above the ground). To do this, he had to push the window up (it was open, but only a few inches) and release the screen. I was cooking dinner, and suddenly realized he wasn't trying to grab boiling pots anymore.
I caught him just as he 'escaped'. He was very proud of himself.
Just a few weeks ago, I caught him with a bungee cord wrapped arouind his neck. He was pulling it tight enough to choke, then letting it go and laughing. The boy aint right.
Truth is, though, he's already a better swimmer than his brother, and will probably have the training wheels off his bike before his brother.
We go to the pool a lot, we take them bicycling, we play wiffle ball in the back yard. We don't let them play video games except when they have a baby sitter, or on long road trips.
We don't have cable.
I have two major challenges as a parent:
1.Getting Robert to try new things, and stick with something physical long enough to master it.
posted
I can't believe that I feel a need to say this to a group of supposed adults, but "Stop picking on the little kid." My god, grow up already.
What's wrong with you people? Are you actually that insecure in your parenting?
Laurenzo is pretty obviously a young teenager. What do you people seriously think you're trying to accompish here, because it looks to me like you're just looking to feel better about yourselves. You're definitely not trying to help Laurenzo grow and learn. Actually, maybe you are, but then you just plain suck at it.
posted
Sorry Brettly. That joke isn't too funny to me.
We know he is at least 16, since he apparently can drive and owns a van (unless 'my van' means 'my parent's van').
I'm curious to know why he has a couple of younger boys hanging around. What are the circumstances?
Especially concidering his attitude, which has not been "Let me clarify myself", but defensive. And has been about letting it be okay to have your kids take risks.
Posts: 3495 | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
I never meant to disparrage Lornezo, just to point out that even when kids do have lots of opportunities to get out and 'do', sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
And seriously, dude, no one's going to bash you just for being young. You really can tell us how old you are.
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
As many as 6% of childhood deaths are due to falls, mostly from injury to head and spinal column. ("The mortality of childhood falls,' by Hall JR, et al; in Journal of Trauma. 1989 Sep;29(9):1273-5.)
The bottom line, Laurenz0, is that such falls as your 10-yr old friend suffered can be very dangerous, even fatal. You may believe it is not that dangerous, but you are not in a position to accurately assess that risk.
You are, however, lucky that something worse didn't happen.
(Parents, take this as a warning: know who is taking responsibility for your children when they are out of your sight. Know whether or not older children are reliable and responsible enough to take care of younger children.)
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
I disagree with you that less caution was needed in the past. The first place I came across the whole "let the kid burn himself" arguemnt (saw it articulated, that is--I was aware of the idea before) was in Rousseau, and since he went in for the whole noble savage bit, with all of its idealization of less technologically advanced society, I wouldn't be surprised if that was where your grade school teacher got the idea also.
The thing is, I doubt that life was really all that much safer in less technologically advanced societies--just different. For example, the wrong mushroom can do a whole lot more than send you on a trip. Pre-European contact Native Americans may not have had to worry about getting hit by a car, but they probably did have to worry about getting mauled by a mountain lion, or bear, or charged by a moose, or whatever. Furthermore, something that, with a thorough washing and application of Neosporin, is merely a cut is potentially much more serious when you don't have antiseptic creams and a knowledge of the usefulness of washing out a wound.
I'd submit that it's much safer, now, to fall 10 or 12 feet than it would have been back then, simply because now it's possible to be life-flighted to the nearest hospital for treatment (that isn't to say that it's safe now, just that it's saferer).
I think that in any society, regarless of degree of technological sophistication, you have to balance allowing a child to take a risk with your knowledge of the safety or lack thereof of their actions. Sure, let them touch a hot stove*--they won't do it twice. Don't let them grab ahold of a skillet handle and pour boiling grease over their head though. The trick is figuring out which action falls into which category.
posted
Olivet, my 9-yr old nephew is just like Robert. I took him to a water park here in Orlando a week ago. He did not want to ride any of the rides that were enclosed tubes, went head first, etc. He is a very, very cautious boy.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Missed you , CT! AIM me sometime! I'm Pifingers.
Brettly, They take Gymnastics during the school year, and we've been thinking about some kiddie martial arts. They were in Kindermusic, but I think Robert may be old enough for real piano lessons.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm nearly 16, and clearly people do bash you for you age and the child never was in my care!!!!
He is a friend of a friend of mine. My friend is 13 and he is 10. he was not in my care. Never was he placed him my care. He was just hanging out with us.
Yes I can drive. yes I do drive.
You know what, maybe we shouldn't even walk on the sidewwalk with our kids. Dangerous things could happen. Maybe we shouldn't let them cross the street. Maybe we should chain them in their room so absoloutly nothing can happen to them. That would be safe.
posted
I'm with Mr. Squicky on this. There has been entirely too much mocking and insulting of LaurnzO on this thread. Kayla gets a pass because her tyke just broke his arm. How's he doing anyway, Kayla?
quote:for the record people, the fall on that line was about 6 feet onto quite soft ground. I would never put anybody into a situation that can kill them.
For this you need a safety harness, spotters, padded ground, and a D-ring, Brettly10? Don't forget cervical collars, body armor and a Medivac chopper standing by. Thanks for proving LaurenzO's point: many parents are obssesed with safety to the point of absurdity.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
zgator, I find that wonderfully re-assuring. I get the "He's all Boy" comments all the time about Liam, but I'm like, "So Robert is what? Part Pidgeon?"?
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Crap! CT, couldn't you have waited till after my last post to weigh in? All I can say is a short fall from a zipline puts you in a good position to land on your feet.
posted
Brettly has become Morbo's Vermin of the Week.
Morbo, if memory serves, Brettly has daughters, and there is a subtle tendency to think of little girls as fragile. Though I was seriously overprotective until Liam came along and singlehandedly justified my paranoia. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Squicky, until we know for sure how old he is, there's no possible way to let him off easy as "too young". And you know...despite being asked a number of times, he still hasn't answered the question. How curious.
Further, the longer this thread gets, the scarier Lorenz0 is to me. There are a couple of teen boys in my neighborhood who are not allowed to get anywhere near my son. Because they are nuts. They are happy to suggest to the younger boys all kinds of insane things, stuff that might not hurt older boys, but where the risk is significantly greater for younger kids who don't have the size, strength or dexterity to keep from being seriously hurt. Like sword fighting with real swords taken from one Dad's collection. Or wrestling ala WWF out on the concrete.
Lorenz0, no matter what age you are, you're begging for a lawsuit from an angry parent. Justifyably so. One of the things when I was a kid was that we ran free in our neighborhood, but we were all just about the same age. We didn't have older kids to influence our hijinx to levels we weren't really ready for yet. My son broke his arm speed racing around the culdesac...that was an accident, and it was a bunch of other boys his age. If he had broken his arm during the afforementioned wrestling session with one of our 15 year old neighbors, it would have been another thing entirely. I would have insisted that the boy's parents pay my insurance deductible and copay percentage.
posted
Olivet, your Liam stories are funny and scary. I think I'd have a nervous breakdown with a kid like that. Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Actually, I wasn't thinking of Laurenz0 as a kid. I had pictured him more as an adult.
Almost 16. It isn't a bad age, and nothing to be ashamed of. You should have told us a long time ago. It was you not telling me that made me more curious.
Just understand, and you too Morbo, that until you are a parent and while you are still a minor, you probably don't have quite the perspective on it that you will when you have your own child.
I will agree that some parents smother their children too much and don't allow them the freedom or give them the responsibility they need to grow. But uneccessary risk taking really isn't helpful for the process of growing up and maturing.
I'd go back and change that, but it'd spoil your joke! I had the damndest time with that word for some reason--I blame the nesting of multiple UUB tags and my own sleep deprived state! For a little while I actually had it written [er]safeb[/er]. How I came up with that I don't know.
posted
My question for you, Laurenz0, is why are you hanging out with 10 year olds? If you were babysitting or something, I could understand that, but for some reason it always creeps me out when older teenagers associate with much younger children.
For one thing, the activities of a 15 year old who drives a van are by default going to be more dangerous than those of a 10 year old. You've already proven this point with your 7-foot fall story.
Shouldn't you be trying to get a date?
Am I the only one who's disturbed by this?
Posts: 1855 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I remember not too long ago a Bishop whose son died from jumping off the roof and missing a trampoline.
I don't think LaurenzO is in much of a position to be criticizing parenting skills. And I don't especially think parents playing it safe with their kids is the biggest crisis facing childcare these days.
Posts: 374 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote: The author concludes that an infant or child may suffer a fatal head injury from a fall of less than 3 meters (10 feet)
From CT's first link. Brett10, I thought all the safety precautions you mentioned were overkill. I just emphasized their absurdity. I picked you because of all your specifics when others were just saying vaugely "be safer." Also, you can slip and have a fatal head injury in the shower, but I don't see many safety devices in there.
posted
When I was about 14, there were some younger kids in the neighborhood who liked to try to hang around with us older kids. We were pretty nice about it, unlike others in our age group. But it becomes clear pretty quickly that the younger kids are just too likely to get hurt with any "normal" horseplay, let alone something really dangerous.
They don't weigh enough to avoid just getting "bounced" by the average 14 year old even unintentionally.
The disparity is even greater when comparing them to 16 year olds.
This is starting to sound like Lord of the Flies time, but it really wasn't. Younger kids always want to hang with the older ones.
And some programs (like Big Brothers) actually encourage High School boys and grade school boys to bond. I did that kind of thing once and it was a great thing. But a very awesome responsibility. I mean, the little guy wasn't afraid of anything so I had to be his buffer against stupidity. That's not easy for a teenager.
We did a lot of really cool stuff (like hiking along streams and in canyons). It was all pretty mundane for me, but for a smaller kid it was a grand adventure.
The main thing to remember is like what CT said -- they can't physically handle stuff that would be okay for an older, larger kid.
And, whether you want it or not, if those kids are looking up to you, you are responsible for them. I think you either rise to the occassion or you tell them to stop hanging out with you.
posted
Morbo - no shower mat or sticky pads on the floor of your shower? [croc hunter voice]Danger danger danger![/croc hunter voice]
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I see everybody thinks i'm some creepy child molester. Let me set the record straight, here is the full story.
Each year i travel to an island of the west coast of vancouver island.
When we go there are 2 other familes that go with us and they all have kids. I have known them ever since they were born.
Anyway, one of my best friends who goes with us is thirteen years old and in turn one of his best friends is 10 almost 11.
So we basically move as unit. It isn't a very big island.
Oh, by the way, on the topic of the island, since we were in a temperate rain forest the ground was very mossy and soft. We cleared away all obsticles from the landing zone and put padding up on the tree it was attached too.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
But I also think that the parents should know what the heck is up with their kids.
I have no opinion one way or the other on LorenzO by the way.
I'm just saying that the parents ought to know where their kids are and who they are with. The kids ought to know that they have to tell their parent's what they are doing and with whom.
Olivet: One of my nephews is like your youngest. His mom put him in gymnastics and karate. Yours is a little too young for that now, but when he's older, those classes will teach him discipline in a very physically satisfying setting, I imagine.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
For all you people saying "it wasn't safe it wasn't safe" your right. It wasn't safe. But there was also quite a low risk of sustaining serious injury on it.
I took many falls on it and tested it out. I told him "probably the worst thing that would happen is you will burn your hand really badly" and behold, i was right. I did exactly the same thing I would if it was my ten year old going down it.
really, i think I'm a good person to comment on the sate of parenting because i'm neither a perant nor am I the child who doesn't get to do stuff.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Taunt]](graemlins/taunt.gif)
![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
Missed you , CT! AIM me sometime! I'm Pifingers.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
Amka!
