quote: "My master sees more than that, said Eliezer, chuckling. "He knows the names of the stars, including the one closest to where God dwells."
"God lives on a star?"
"Near a star. The stars are suns, like the great fire in our sky, only very far away. And they have worlds around them also. God made them all."
- Rebekah by Orson Scott Card
This is the second time I've read this, that Mormons believe that God lives on a world revolving another star. The first time was in a *cringe* Jack Chick tract on Mormonism. I've looked for any mention of this on the official Mormon site, and I can't find it. Is this just something that is believed by some Mormons and not others, is it just not important enough to get on the official site? And what specifically is this belief, seeing as I've only seen hints of it?
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
The belief comes from a dialogue between God and Abraham in Abraham chapter 3.
Mormons believe God to be a physical, not just a spiritual, being so he must be living somewhere. As to exactly where that is, this chapter from Abraham is about as close as we ever get to having an answer.
For me, it makes sense that God lives on a planet somewhere, but it is of marginal significance. Meaning that if I die and find out he doesn't live on a planet, it's not going to be terribly distressing to me.
posted
First, Mormons believe that God has a tangible, physical body, so he must have an actual location rather than being literally omnipresent.
As for where that location is, LDS scripture does contain a reference to a star (called Kolob) that is closest to where God lives. However, there are other ways to read this passage. I think I saw a post wherein Geoff Card mentioned one of them, but there are others. The most common interpretation, however, is that Kolob is an actual star someplace, and that God lives on a planet nearby.
Is the angel of god in the header pictured above "beaming down" from there to talk to BY (and, I assume, give him the BoM)? It sure looks like it.
Posts: 2506 | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote: Well, God has a body of flesh and bone - he's really someone. Makes sense he lives somewhere.
How tall is he?
Hmmmm. I would say that God has a GREAT SPIRIT and that he comes into a Physical Body when he wants to.
I don't think that he just has a physical body that he's only in all of the time, but this is one of those things that I have a knowledge of, but not the 100% definition.
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posted
The picture at the top left of your screen, Kat.
eslaine, I don't think that's what you think it is. I believe it's Hatrack. From the Seventh Son series?
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posted
The basic premise is that among the stars, which were all created by God, there are degrees of greatness, and the greatest of all the stars is Kolob, and Kolob is near where God resides. Abraham was getting a lesson in astronomy, and not just astronomy from the Earth's perspective.
BTW, even if that was an angel appearing to give the Book of Mormon, he would have been giving it to Joseph Smith, not Brigham Young.
Edit: Ah, beaten to the punch by solo.
[ August 20, 2003, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: advice for robots ]
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
I'm surprised that doesn't give rise to more Mormon science fiction. I mean, what happens if , in the course of space exploration, we come upon Kolob and find God?
posted
That connection has been made many times before. I haven't looked all through the past threads here, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mormons' fondness for speculative fiction has been a topic at hatrack before. Possibly over and over and . . .
posted
I wouldn't say there's anything officially doctrinally spoken about where God lives. Scripture alludes to it, but we know that scripture tends to teach symbolically.
All I can say is that there's probably a lot of speculative LDS teaching on the subject, but nothing that's official dogma.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I'll bet that's why there's not a lot of science fiction about it - it's not well-understood, and there's a tendency to shy away from exploring in art the very, very sacred things. No accidental blasphemy.
Is Zal around? I'll bet he has an opinion on this. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:I'm surprised that doesn't give rise to more Mormon science fiction. I mean, what happens if , in the course of space exploration, we come upon Kolob and find God?
It was called Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, and it sucked.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:I'm surprised that doesn't give rise to more Mormon science fiction.
It probably would, if Mormons didn't ALSO show reverence for things by avoiding depictions and discussions of them. We don't typically repeat the name of deity very often, nor do we discuss aspects of deity that we know we don't fully understand, because we are very concerned with avoiding depicting Him falsely.
So if you hear a Mormon talking abotu Kolob a lot, that means they think they have it all figured out, and are, by definition, wrong on almost all counts.
I personally take a much more allegorical interpretation from Abraham 3, though I do still recognize, as all Mormons do, that God must be SOMEwhere I just don't believe our scriptures have even begun to explain exactly where.
posted
Most LDS speculative writers have shied away from explicit speculative Mormon theology. In other words, they may use ideas from Mormon theology in their world building (OSC and auias being the best example) or they may use Mormon characters. About the closest you get is pre- or post-apocalyptic fiction ala the "Left Behind" series (other than OSC's _Folk of the Fringe_, Linda Adam's prodigal journey series is the best of the lot [from what I understand - haven't read her books yet]). Oh yeah, and there's also a few "spirit world" (afterlife) books -- although some of those aren't explicitly Mormon. Kenny Kemp's _I Hated Heaven_ is the best of that category.
The reasons behind this (other than the fact the its more market friendly) have already been explained by Geoff. While I agree with him when it comes to depictions of deity, I do think that there's room for more explicitly Mormon characters and themes in speculative fiction. For example, I think that a straight-up Mormons from a century or two from now explore space and encounter other forms of intelligent life novel could be interesting.
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posted
It seems to me (and perhaps I'm a bit sheltered, living rather far from the nearest Deseret Book ) that the only major LDS fiction writer to use direct scriptural material is Heimerdinger in his Tennis Shoes Among the Nephites books, and though they're rather popular, I know there's a rather large undercurrent of disapproval for their somewhat blasphemous fictionalization of scriptural events. I don't think LDS Sci-fi dealing with the home planet of God would do well at all.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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quote:I'm surprised that doesn't give rise to more Mormon science fiction. I mean, what happens if , in the course of space exploration, we come upon Kolob and find God?
and
quote:I'm surprised it doesn't give rise to more LDS astronauts!
nawww...then we'd have to deal with having all our languages changed again...
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posted
I wasn't trying to be disrespectful, but man, if I thought God was alive on some planet somewhere, I'd want to be out there looking for him.
As long as we are discussing this, how does that work exactly? I mean, if you die and go to heaven and the best heaven, as I understand it, is to be in the presence of God, and if God is a living being on another planet, how do you get to be with him? Is not actively looking for God part of the showing reverence thing?
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posted
The Tennis Shoes series isn't as bad as, say, Children of the Promise , which tries to be the next Work and the Glory . And don't even get me started on that.
posted
Mind if I ask a different question? The other thread seems to have scrolled away again.
Back in high school, my sister and I became friends with a Mormon girl who was on the academic team and (I believe) in band. Eventually our families became acquainted as well. The first time we went to their house to visit, the mother asked (as people who meet me usually do) about my voice, which is unusually deep due to a partially-corrected birth defect.
After my mother and I had explained about it, she responded, "You must be so blessed!" which baffled both of us--it seemed a very strange expression to use. But rather than risk getting into a religious discussion we didn't ask about it. So...does this expression have something to do with a particular point of LDS doctrine, or was it just a quirk of the family?
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posted
Kayla asked, "As long as we are discussing this, how does that work exactly? I mean, if you die and go to heaven and the best heaven, as I understand it, is to be in the presence of God, and if God is a living being on another planet, how do you get to be with him?"
Well, Mormons tend to talk about being "with" someone in the afterlife a lot, without really thinking it through. We are told that those that to to "the best heaven", or the Celestial Kingdom, will actually live on Earth. That is, after the final resurrection and judgment, the Earth will be changed into a Celestial sphere, where those folks will reside. So, if God is on his own world, and we (wishful thinking) are on Earth, we won't be "with" Him in the sense of living down the block from each other. However, there are other senses in which we will be in His presence, including the fact that we will be able to enter His actual physical presence at any time.
posted
Children of the Promise is a wannabe Work and the Glory?
Ahem.
The difference in writing between Dean Hughes and Gerald Lund is like the difference in writing between OSC and my daughter. Who is two. And can't write yet.
I don't know if you've read them, but the Promise series is actually pretty decent historical fiction, so if you dig that kind of thing, I'm sure you'll enjoy them. If not, I can see how it might look like it's trying to rip of the Work and the Glory series, but it's really worlds apart.
Sorry to head for this tangent. Please keep talking about Kolob.
That's more of a family quirk. Although the kind of mom who says that usually ranks among the sweetest and kindest of women. I'm just picturing the women I have known who might say something like that. But there's no particular Church doctrine that would prompt her to say that.
Docmagik: Perhaps my only claim to fame is that I once took a creative writing class from Dean Hughes. He's a really nice guy. But I haven't read any of his books because I dislike historical fiction.
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posted
There are Mormons who toss around the words "blessed" and "blessings" without thinking too much about them. Those who hear them shouldn't, either Posts: 2048 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Ok I started reading the passage that you linked to from Abraham, which is part of the Pearl of Great Price. Then I read Joseph Smith's account of how the plates were revealed. Then I jumped around a bit and read the preface to the Book of Mormon. I also read the statments by the three witnesses and the eight witnesses.
I guess I knew all of that information sort of vaguely in the background being non-LDS myself, and maybe I'm asking a stupid question. But, what happened to those plates? I understand not letting everyone in the world see them because they are sacred, but why hasn't anybody modern seen them? If there is some specific link sanctioned by the LDS church that discusses this subject I'd love a referral. I've been perusing the LDS site myself but feel a little lost since it is such a huge site.
posted
Gosh, I thought the angel didn't GIVE JS the BoM. I thought he just told him where to find it. I'm not LDS, and barring something else happening that changes the physical and/or chemical structure of... me, I won't be.
But that idea has always made sense to me. There are a lot of ancient references to space, and even old carvings and paintings that seem to represent some sort of UFO type of thing. It would make sense for an advanced being to take an interest in us, or even to have planted us here (guided evolution, or whatnot).
But I sort of fail to see the point in worshipping it, even though on some level I can accept it as true.
(P.S. Please don't send me anymore sweet little Mormon boys. I corrupted the last two, but I'm tryin' to cut down.) Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Banna- there was a section of the plates from which Joseph translated the Book of Mormon (either 2/3 of the total or 1/3 of the total, depending on the source) which was sealed and which Joseph was told was to come forth at a future date. Once Joseph was finished translating the portion of the plates allotted to him Moroni came and took them back.
Posts: 4548 | Registered: May 2001
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quote: But, what happened to those plates? I understand not letting everyone in the world see them because they are sacred, but why hasn't anybody modern seen them?
posted
Regarding the earth becoming a "celestial sphere".
Yes. This explains how the meek will inherit the earth--'cos it sure aint happening now. (and there have been a lot of dead meek people who never got that promise fulfilled.)
posted
Thank you, I read the links with interest. While I don't intend to become Mormon, I plan on reading all of the LDS Scriptures just out of curiosity. It is much more intriguing now to me than it was before.
posted
It would make sense in the context of the old testament. There is one book, I believe it is Ezekiel, where the prophet describes something that could be interpreted as an alien encounter. He says a rock with fire beneath it descends from the sky, and four "angels" come out of it. The angels are "flying" above the ground without moving their "shiny wings" and they have four "faces" (helmet/mask). They each carry a cylindrical object attached to them by a "rope." This could be a life support, levitation or some other fuction-oriented device. They speak directly into his mind and tell him what god wants him to know and say etc.
I guess if god really did exist on a planet his angels could use spacecraft to get around and/or maybe aliens really created christianity to control us! Either way or maybe neither way it is interesting to wonder...
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