posted
I mean, really? There seems the idea that we need God a whole lot more than He needs us. Even assuming that God is omnipotent and is all-seeing, our very lives would be a timeline. For God, there is simply no time, He could look upon my life and see what good and bad I do throughout my life.
All I can say is that if I were God, I would almost feel compelled to "affect" my own abilities so that my creations lended more entertainment value.
Did God make this universe out of boredom? Did God, like a master craftsman, create this universe and watch it unfold (The Craftwork Deity Theory)? Or does God have a direct impact in our lives, making adjustments in this world (and the next) constantly? Or does He do both? Is there Fate, Faith, Both, or Neither?
These are the questions that Religious Education asked, but they were never answered.
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posted
If there is a god, I think he created the universe for fun, like a kid playing with Lego. I can't think of a better reason to create a universe Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote: Or does God have a direct impact in our lives, making adjustments in this world (and the next) constantly?
Actually, the christian God could not make adjustments to this world for that would be an admission that he was wrong in some way. That obviously cannot happen. See the movie Dogma and youll understand.
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posted
I personally prefer the Craftwork Deity Theory as well Twinky, but we can call it the Universe Set by Lego (99,234,587 trillion pieces) if you prefer!
Hi Jerry!
Honestly I was being a bit mischevious when I started this thread, and I have seen Dogma. Carefully re-read my statement that you quoted above:
Christianity has also included Satan and Hell to explain why God has to make "adjustments". Notice I never said "mistakes" or "corrections". The presence of Satan and his minions provides a medium that exists to undo God's work.
I suppose that to delve more deeply into this subject is that:
If there is Heaven, is there Hell? If there is Hell, how did Satan get so powerful? If God is omnipotent, why did He let Satan get such a foothold?
If this series of "logic" does not make sense, then what makes sense to you?...
Reverse Conditioning: The process of stuffing saliva in a dog's mouth, causing a bell to ring.
Sometimes, humanity gets the equation backwards, too.
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God did not create the Universe. There's no telling how much He "organized", though. And... God did not make us--though He provides progression opportunities for us, such as these bodies.
Therefore, mormons don't have any big first "why?" to deal with.
__________________
Regarding satan's power:
He has some power because he (like everyone) has freewill (and was not created by God), and has supporters.
Where they live is hell, rather than they live in hell.
I was raised Catholic and you probably know that Creation account better than I do. I personally am not struggling with "why" so much as I am trying to reverse the thought process in another thread, "Does the Universe really need a God?". I suppose the argument sounded better the other way around, to me at least.
I too have personally been fascinated with the scientific accounts of how our planet, solar system, galaxy, and universe were created. The information barely scratches the surface of what is needed to discount religion, but I still am fascinated by it all.
Maybe I am a "doubting Thomas" in some regards, but the history of religion is also one the most fascinating facets of human culture for me.
I have read that LDS believes Books of the Bible as truth as well as other books. If this is the case, (and I am oversimplifying things), wouldn't the Mormon Creation be very similar to another Christian religion that believes in The Bible?
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posted
Doesn't God need the Universe to exist at all? I guess you can't have one without the other, especially if the Mormon point of view is right. I tend to lean towards that more. I don't think there can be a beginning or an end. It doesn't make sense. So God exists because the Universe has always been there. Sounds interesting.
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quote:We believe, for example, that God never intended for Adam and Eve to exist in the Garden of Eden forever. . .
I've never been able to take that story seriously. I hardly even see any value in knowing the story. I guess the lesson it teaches us is that it's completely pointless to wish for a life without tragedy and pain because none of the good things could ever be appreciated.
I'm wrong about that, aren't I...
Posts: 149 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote: God did not create the Universe. There's no telling how much He "organized", though. And... God did not make us--though He provides progression opportunities for us, such as these bodies.
I have never heard this take in any creation theory. Is this a unpopular belief or is it simply my ignorance to the subject? I was raised baptist and have never really deeply questioned the beliefs that were taught to me. Also, where how did these beliefs come about, and where are the mormons getting this from?
quote: Also, where how did these beliefs come about, and where are the mormons getting this from?
Mormons believe that additional revelation concerning the creation of earth was given to Joseph Smith-- some of it can be found in the Book of Abraham, Ch 3, Ch. 4, and Ch. 5 .
Imagine that you're an all-powerful being unrestricted by our physical laws or time. So you (have)(will)exist(ed). So you create some beings to share communion with you and worship you. But these beings don't have a choice in the matter -- no "free will." So you create some other beings and a universe in which they can exist. These beings are truly individuals who can choose to commune with you or not. They have their own minds -- their own thoughts, their own passions and their own point-of-view. You now have some company.
And then, to further explore this idea (and take it into other controversial topics)...
You love all of your creations. However, whether good or bad, some decide not to commune with you. Since you've given them this choice it's beyond your control to "save" the ones who choose not to commune with you. It might be possible for you to ignore their choice and "save" them regardless, but that nullifies the point of creating these indivduals in the first place.
quote:You love all of your creations. However, whether good or bad, some decide not to commune with you. Since you've given them this choice it's beyond your control to "save" the ones who choose not to commune with you. It might be possible for you to ignore their choice and "save" them regardless, but that nullifies the point of creating these indivduals in the first place.
Does that mean I'm going to hell?!
Ahhh, we could discuss this forever. I think we should. Anyways, I do believe in some sort of God (I don't think it makes much sense otherwise), but not one that ever intervines with human life (or any other intelligent life out there). Which means I can't believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God (I still consider him one of the greatest men who've ever lived, and at least the most influential).
Bearing that, lets imagine that Jesus actually is the son of God. Because I don't believe that, does it mean I'll have to spend eternity suffering? Or will I not exist at all??
Or maybe, if I at least live a life guided by good decent morals, might that save me?
I'm just wondering. I'm guessing this is a question for the more religious of you out there.
posted
Now why would a book that is aparently written by Abraham appear in the US? Was it actually FOUND, or was it written by Smith and dictated by God? This is starting to really interest me.
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I do not think that an omnipotent being needs this reality to exist. What we call the universe may be but one existence. When an individual who believes that alternate universes exists and calls a "universe" a universe to encompass all "universes" then that means something entirely different. This is all getting metaphysical, and I am weak on metaphysics, which leaves my comments sounding hollow and I am sorry.
Scott,
Thank you for the information, and you do not have to explain your beliefs as a bit odd. After all, Catholicism is not without its difficulties in belief and practice.
Godric,
More or less, this was the train of thought I was imagining. I dared contemplate how or why God would start the Creation process and I do not think it is as simple as needing company or a Father/Children analogy... Without being too forthright, I find that my beliefs expand beyond what my Religion allows, rather than me conforming my ideas to fit within the boundaries of my Religions' beliefs. Still, The Bible is dynamic enough to be applicable in so many regards, with so many passages being relevant to daily life thousands of years later. And we thought OSC was a good author...
Celtic Flame,
I believe that the answer to your question cannot be known for certain. Those with Faith will tell you what their Religion tells them. I simply hope that my contributions to this world outweigh the negative things I have been responsible for. That is one of my goals at least...
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