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I'm not married, but when I spill out to my best friend, his first question is "Am I listening or am I suggesting?" I give a one word answer, and away it goes. It's worked for a long time.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Kat, once you get married, you're expected to know the answer to that question without asking. Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Except that sometimes even we don't know if we want advice or to be listened to.
I think that as women, well as human beings, one of the best things to do, especially in a marriage, is assume the best intentions on the part of your spouse.
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quote:So, how can you tell when someone just wants to be listened to, and when they want advice/solutions? Don't both situations sound virtually identical to the listener?
Heh. Possibly, Geoff. I guess the key is for both the teller and listener to differentiate between a "vent" and a "listen, I have a problem, what do you think I should do?"
**Ela**
[ September 03, 2003, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Ela ]
Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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I married my (now ex-) wife after knowing her for 6 weeks. Spank me now.
She was 23, I was 26. Neither of us had a strong religious organization or community to support us, and she in particular was disconnedted with her family.
The first year was the hardest, and it made all subsequent ups and downs that much harder to work through. She decided to hate our living situation, even though she was fully aware of it when we got hitched (we each shared with roomates, and it was simply a matter of choice as to whose place we moved into). We got married because we didn't want to live together - again, no particular religious or cultural reason, just the fact that we believed that we were knew what we needed and were smart enough to make it work - as if!
We didn't have any particular roles in mind, although she was one of those ornery women . IMO, the roles that work are the ones you agree on, which may or may not specifically be the ones that your particular culture or religion proscribe.
No matter what the men said when they were dating (remember, us men will say just about anything to get...well you know what), their partner must judge them by their actions, and it sounds as if their partners' actions are not meeting the womens' needs.
Through fifteen years of trying, job successes and layoffs, home purchases, 3,000 mile relocations, two kids, much counseling, we were not able to overcome that first bad year, and eventually had to end it.
I am much happier now, and although it hasn't been perfect for our kids, I believe it may have been worse for them if their parents had stayed together. She says she's much happier now (I believe her meds are working!), but I really don't see her happiness, yet.
As long as there are no major health code violations in the house, and as long as no one is sleeping with their neighbor or beating up on their spouse, I think almost any behavior in a marriage can and should be adapted to. This takes a large amount of eg0-sacrifice on the part of both, but it is, IMO, the thing that will keep the marriage together.
Now, on the cooking thing...never tell a girl how good you are in the kitchen (again, a guy will say anything...). After she cooks for you a few times, invite her over for hot dogs and beer, but slam her with a meal twice as good as the ones she has defrosted for you. You will be amply rewarded, grasshopper.
Posts: 86 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Maybe that is why I upset my friends who want the "fairy tale". I think even though I'm female I need to start asking my female friends the question "am I just listening or am I suggesting" Maybe that would get me out of the hot water I get in because I don't think like a normal female.
As far as the whole "wedding" thing, I've never wanted the whole wedding headache to begin with. Even before I was ever dating, I didn't have the wedding fantasy and my dress picked out. I still don't. Admittedly watching the knockdown dragout between Steve's relatives and mine would be entertaining but also a recipe for disaster in any sort of wedding setting which is why I still don't want to think about any actual "wedding". The idea of being married and living married life doesn't bother me near as much.
The thing is that the advice jatraqueros in general are giving is the same thing I've heard people say for years. It is like I'm the only one who actually believed the difficulties encountered in making a marriage or relationship work and my friends didn't quite have it sink in. I mean in every magazine from religious down to Cosmo, it says universally, "Don't get married thinking you can change him. It is a recipe for disaster."
I guess this is why I'm floored by some of the unrealistic expectations they have.
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Hope is an amazing thing. I mean, heck, people adapt to living in Antarctica. Harvey Pekar has literally spent thirty years as a file clerk, thinking any moment his writing is going to call his ship into harbor.
I love the "Am I listening or am I suggesting?" question. It just makes things so much nicer all the way around. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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The first years of both of my marriages were tough. I think it goes with the territory of making major adjustments in your life. I know that the first years of my children's lives were not the easiest either. I don't think we humans take change all that well, even when it's good for us.
I've only been married for 3 years so far this time, and have to say that I picked right this time. I think the toughest part about our first year was that I'd made too many changes in too short a time. In the space of three months, I moved 1,500 miles, started working from home instead of in an office, sold a house, got married and moved again into a brand new house that needed a lot of stuff done to it to make it ready to really live in. About six months after things settled down I couldn't figure out why I was so incredibly unhappy -- those were all good changes. Hubby and I met with a friend who was also a family counsellor several times and that solved it for me. I just needed someone to help me sort my thoughts out, give me some validation on where I was right, and some conviction where I was wrong.
I think it was enormously helpful to have a lot of premarital counselling. I also think it was helpful that we're both previously divorced (not that I recommend that path). We are both now totally committed to the marriage and it would take abuse or infidelity to re-introduce the "D" word back into our vocabulary.
Additionally, we have a fairly large community of friends with the same values for marriage, which helps us be accountable. Several couples we are close to have had their hard times too, and knowing what they are working through is inspiring. It keeps us working on our marriage.
I'm with afr about not talking trash about your spouse. That's the absolute number one red flag for me to say that there is something seriously wrong in the marriage. Which is not to say you can't ever talk your way through your frustrations... it's just to say that if you are actively guarding your tongue, you are also actively working on those opinions, testing them out for truth, and maybe even what you can do to resolve the problem.
Ultimately, what I see in the couples we work with in our church, is that the ones really struggling are ALWAYS looking to their spouse to improve the situation. And it NEVER gets better until they stop confessing their spouse's sins and start working on some of their own instead.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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I'll second what Geoff said, and Sopwith. The expectation of mind reading has got to go. You wouldn't do it with a co-worker or stranger on the street, why subject your spouse to that kind of performace expectation? I know that some have suggested that doing something because you were asked is not as noble or wonderful as doing it on your own, but I have discovered myriad situations where my wife wants it done HER way, I don't care which way it gets done, so I ask her. What do you want me to do? And then I take her at her word. She does the same to me. This means that although we still fight about things (she believes in this magical thing called "soap" as the cure-all for dishes. I mean, come on, that's just WEIRD), at least I always am reasonably sure where I stand. No guessing, no wrong guesses.
This process doesn't really occur during dating because you don't "have" things in common to do things to and with. That's why it's commonly seen as a "marriage issue".
Posts: 196 | Registered: May 2003
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I think its important for people to realize what can and cannot be changed in their partners, but I don't agree necessarily that wanting change is a bad thing.
I myself am a big fan of self-improvement, and I love it when I have someone to act as a catalyst for that change. For example, I can't cook. I know that when I move in with a woman though, I will learn how to cook as best I can, and look foward to doing so. I'm also not naturally a neat freak, but enjoy living in an extremely clean environment. A woman could easily motivate me to clean on a much more regular basis than I would by myself. Another example is fashion. I enjoy looking good, but have very little concept of how to dress fashionably. A spouse could easily help change me in that regard. As much as I'd like a girl who would love me "as I am", I would prefer a woman who will motivate me to stay in shape for her. In these examples, and others I can think of, a little pressure to change would be a welcome thing for me.
There are things that you just can't, or shouldn't try to change though. One thing would be a person's interests which only annoy you because you are selfish. If the guy in this situation wants to watch WWE, by all means let him. If she wants to change him in his interests, the positive way to go about it would be to encourage him to take up a new hobby with her. It would be better to add something else both could enjoy, rather than taking away something that he does. (if that makes any sense) Also, faults that someone has little control over only cause resentment when one complains about them.
Of course I've never been married, so I'm sure I don't know what I'm talking about .
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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I think it's important to know that little, seemingly petty disagreements always have something deeper behind them.
Wes can't cook if there are dirty dishes in the sink. He washes all the dishes in the sink, then he cooks supper.
Me, I only want to wash dishes once a day. At night, after all eating for the day is done. I don't wash dishes before I cook, I can just move the other dishes aside if I need to get to the sink for water.
Silly, petty thing, right?
It's just the front for a much bigger issue. See, everytime he came home and began washing dishes, I felt like he was making a comment on the way I've kept the house today. Like he's judging me, washing the dishes is a way of saying "You didn't do a good enough job and now I have to step in." I get surly and irritated.
From his point of view, he works two jobs and a lot of long hours to provide for me and the kids, and a big part of that is paying for this home that we all love. When the home is messy, it feels to him as if I and the kids don't care about it, which makes him feel hurt that we seemingly don't think so much of his contribution.
Plus, it's just simply a personality thing - he functions better in an orderly kitchen, it's easier for him to think and cook that way. Me, I don't give a darn, and clutter does not affect me.
Now, with the help of our pastor we were able to see where each person was coming from. Once he understood that I felt attacked when he came in, he backed of. If the dishes weren't done, he didn't comment and he didn't do them. Once I understood that he thought it was a personal affront when things looked like they were in chaos in the house, I began making an effort to get things if not clean, then at least a little more ordered before he comes home. I load the dishes throughout the day into the dishwasher, so they don't sit in the sink. He can't see them, but we don't wash dishes twice a day. Both of us are happy.
A small effort on each of our parts, to reach a compromised solution.
If I could advise anyone about the get married, I'd point out that a little annoyance can really multiply over the span of 10 years or so. And with that multiplication can come things like resentment, and feeling unappreciated. Those are not healthy feelings for a marriage.
Always look for more than what it is on the surface. And be willing to give a little, ask yourself the question - is it worth it to stand my ground on this, to make a point if it keeps discord between us? I hate cleaning up and straightening. Wes knows it. But more than that I hate for him to be hurt, because he thinks I don't appreciate him. Nothing can be further from the truth, but in order to show my true feelings for him - he needed to see that I cared about our home.
Five minutes of straightening a day to affirm to my husband what he means to me? Easy tradeoff.
Not commenting on some form of disorganization that makes him uncomfortable to keep from hurting my feelings about it? Easy tradeoff for him to make.
Now we both feel appreciated and understood.
We've been married for almost 12 years, folks. This issue has been with us since the beginning, we've always gotten upset with each other over housework, each of us getting our feelings hurt.
Over a ten year period it built into something big. Both of us were angry, a lot of pent up frustration at the other one about it, occasionally it would erupt and there would be a big fight that ended with both of us upset. Over dishes? No, not really over dishes. But that's the surface thing we focused on and fought over, without getting to the real issue.
Praise God we're past that now, and we have strategies for dealing with similar disgreements, so that an argument doesn't ever progress to screaming anymore, and it almost always ends with both of us falling over ourselves to apologize to each other. "It was my fault, I had a bad day and shouldn't have taken it out on you." "No, it was my fault, was frustrated and this just got under my skin, but I know that you didn't mean it the way I took it." "No, no - it's my fault, I should have thought about how you'd feel when I said it....." Much, much better.
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Helping a spouse change shouldn't be, "I want you this way." But more like "I want you to be the best you that you can be."
Posts: 3495 | Registered: Feb 2000
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I think that another good key to marriage is to allow one another alone time where nothing is expected and where the one has a chance to read or watch TV or whatever.
Another good thing to do, as has been mentioned, is to find out who has the greatest interest in performing a certain task and to divvy up labor in that way. For example: My wife is an absolute clean freak. I like a well-ordered living space, but my "clean" is equivalent to "filthy" for my wife. When I clean something my wife will come in and tell me that I did it all wrong, didn't take enough time etc. which results in an immediate blossoming of anger on my part. We have come to the realization that the only real way for her to be satisfied with the level of cleanliness in the house is for her to clean it. Thus nearly all of the household cleaning is her chore while I take care of dishes, the yard and all fix-up projects. While her projects are basically daily mine are usually an intense amount of work a couple of times a week. For the most part it works out, though there are always times of friction.
And finally, as has been repeated many times but cannot be stressed enough: don't expect your spouse to change. Certainly you may encourage and facilitate improvement, but the fact is that most of us are very set in most of our ways and trying to cram our spouse into the mold we desire for them will result only in pain for all involved.
Posts: 4548 | Registered: May 2001
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Jacare, that is very similar to how my wife and I do things. If I could only keep her out of my garage, our marriage would be perfect. It's weird how similar we are sometimes. If I started eating babies, we'd be twins.
Belle, that was a great post. Before you had some counseling, had you and Wes ever discussed why the dishes thing was bothering each of you? K and I went to some premarital counseling and one of the things we learned is that we (and most people) are much more willing to accomodate the other person if we know why that irritating thing we do is irritating.
My wife didn't like that I played video games as much as I did. Why was that? Was it : A she thought it was a big waste of money B I was being a slacker and should be doing something around the house C she hated all the violence in the games I played D because of work, we didn't spend much time together and she missed me
It was D. She never really nagged me about it. She just told me that with that and other things, she didn't think we got to spend much time together. I told her that was my way of unwinding after work all day. We ended up compromising with me cutting back on how much time I do it and she realizing that I'm probably a better person to spend time with if I get to do it for a little while.
quote:I told her that was my way of unwinding after work all day. We ended up compromising with me cutting back on how much time I do it and she realizing that I'm probably a better person to spend time with if I get to do it for a little while.
Out of context thread, anyone?
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I think the biggest issue is communication.
Communication means both Talking and Listening. It does not mean keeping quiet and hoping it all blows over, nor does it mean telling someone what to do.
Mind reading between you and your spouse only exists on a limited basis. Assuming, expecting, and demanding that they know why you are upset, what you want done, and how you want it done will only lead to disappointment.
My wife and I realized quite early that we would do anything the other person asked, and nothing the other ordered us to do, and nothing the other person didn't know needed being done.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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zgator, we never discussed it before when we weren't angry. Usually it came up when the other person was just fed up and felt like screaming.
You can't work out anything when you're in that state - you have to discuss things when you're both calm and no one is upset. But, the tendency is during those times, not to bring up anything that might upset the other one!
Cousneling provides a neutral ground. The counselor asks the questions - "Adrian, why does it bother you when he washes the dishes?" and you're answering her, not your husband. It's less personal coming from her.
I am a firm believer in counseling, and not just when things are bad. In fact, Wes and I didn't think things were bad. We weren't on the cusp of divorce or anything like that. I think there are a lot of things counseling can offer even to happy couples. Look at it as a way to discuss your relationship in a safe place. There are always areas you can improve upon, no matter how happy you think you are.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Wes can't cook if there are dirty dishes in the sink. He washes all the dishes in the sink, then he cooks supper.
Belle, I thought I was the only one like this. I don't particularly like cooking most of the time, but I can't do it at all if the kitchen isn't spotless when I start. But it rarely bothers me if it's messy when I start, and that I have to clean it up.
I like your illustration, though. I think Ross would be happier if there was food on the table when he got home. Something to think about. Thanks, much.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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jeniwren, I remember something I saw once on a talk show, of all things. Not that I recommend one get their marriage advice from talk shows, but you can hear something helpful almost anywhere.
A woman was complaining that she washed all the clothes, she folded them, she sorted them, and she put his clean clothes on top of his dresser. She expected him to put the clothes away in his dresser when he came home. The fact that he never did made her furious. She was doing all this work, surely he could take a few minutes to put away the clothes she washed and folded for him!
The counselor said "Put the dratted clothes in the dresser if it bothers you!
I mean, after you've done that, it takes barely anymore time for you to put them in the dresser. The fact that you're not, has nothing to do with him, it has to do with you trying to make a point and having something to bitch about. He doesn't care that his clothes are on top of the dresser, he can function fine. You're the only person who cares about putting them in the drawers - so do it!"
When I first saw that, I was angry. What kind of inconsiderate husband is he?
She's been home doing housework and caring for kids and he can't even put clothes in a drawer? What a jerk!
It would have been a different story if her husband came home and was angry and yelled because the clothes weren't in the drawer. Instead, he came home and was happy and pleased to find clean clothes on top of his dresser! He appreciated her efforts. Putting them away in the drawer just wasn't something high on his priority list, he didn't mean it as a way of disrespecting her.
That was a case of a wife feeling like her husband doesn't appreciate what she does and isn't willing to help her in any way. And, husband's that work do need to understand what a tough job their wives have at home, especially if they have small kids. As in my case, this couple wasn't fighting over clothes, they were fighting over issues of respect and appreciation.
Now, some of you may be thinking that jeniwren shouldn't have to have a hot meal waiting for her husband, that smacks of some type of 1950's servitude. And I would have had the same knee-jerk reaction once too. It's not about that. It's about trying to understand what the other person needs to feel loved and appreciated by you. Wes' love language is service - he feels loved and appreciated by me when I do things for him that he didn't ask me too. My love language is non-sexual contact, I like to be held, and touched and snuggled with without sex being the ulterior motive for it. I also need affirmation - a lot of it. He does too, but the way he wants me to show him affirmation is by taking care of the things he provides. My need is for verbal affirmation.
It's very important to learn what says "He/She loves me to your spouse. Even if it makes no sense to you, it does to them. For a marriage to work, be willing to show your love to them in a way they understand.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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It's not a '50s servitude thing, as you pointed out, though honestly, I didn't occur to me that it might look that way. My job is pretty blasted slow right now, so if I do much actual work it's pretty early in the day. Plus I do it at home anyway, so there really isn't any good reason why I *can't* have the house reasonably tidy by the time he gets home and food on the table. I don't have any kids in the house in the morning, so that leaves me a fair amount of time to accomplish things. He commutes 120 miles a day, largely because I didn't want to live closer to where his job is. We both love living in this community, so it's kind of a mutual thing that we do, but I know it's not easy driving so much.
So my cooking dinner and having it ready when he gets home makes sense from a basic partnership standpoint. I just hate the whole meal planning task. Once it's planned, managing the kitchen isn't any big deal. Isn't that a dumb stumblingblock?
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Yes, I hate the meal planning thing too. So, we made up a chart, with six weeks worth of meals on it. Wes' schedule works out so each three weeks the same cycle starts over, so with six weeks we have two cycles before we start over again.
You won't believe how much it relieves you to know exactly what you're having for supper that night. The kids got input on what we put on there, and I took our schedule into account, on Thursdays we always have something quick and easy to prepare because that's dance class night and we don't get home until almost seven.
I printed it out on magnetic paper, trimmed it and put in on the refrigerator. Then I cut a smaller piece that says "THIS WEEK" with an arrow, and that gets moved each Sunday, so we know what week we're on and can tell at a glance what's for supper that night.
I also can plan my shopping at a glance, knowing exactly what I need to buy for the week.
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Now I understand Kristine's frustration when she asks what I want for dinner next week and I say "I dunno, whatever you want."
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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YOu have to understand what a big step that was for me. I'm a flighty, moment by moment ENFP personality. Planning ahead by six weeks! The horror!
But I have to admit, it does make things much, much easier. See in my house, it was my husband asking "What's for dinner?" and me saying "I don't know." "It's already six o'clock." "Well, we'll just find something to cook, or we'll pick up fast food."
We ate way too much fast food that way. Now, we have a couple times noted on the chart where we order pizza, and where we eat out, but the rest of the meals are planned.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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mmm. Since you printed it out, you wouldn't happen to still have it on your computer, would you? I'd love to see it, just to get some inspiration.
edit: you posted too quickly, Belle! I don't like putting things down in concrete either. It's a major commitment to make a grocery list, even though I *know* that that's the only reasonable and efficient way to do it.
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It's on its way, as a Word attachment. I've already cleaned my computer, no nasty viruses.
I have a chore list that works the same way, I'm sending it too.
Edit: The chore list probably doesn't make sense to you. A TBD chore is To Be Done on that day. A sliding chore is one that is done only if Wes is home, and not at the station that night. That's because when he's not here, it's harder to get all the chores done.
Laundry days are the days that person's laundry is done - everyone is responsible for putting up their own laundry. The kids collect it from the laundry room and take it to their own rooms.
Before you ask - no, I haven't been following it lately, but I'm going to get back to it. When it works it works great.
[ September 04, 2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: Belle ]
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I'd love to see the menu, too. Our problem? Menus worked for a while, but then my husband would fall into a pattern of "I'm not in the mood for that." Ugh. And it's really annoying if we go to the grocery store on Saturday morning and I ask him what he wants for dinner, and I swear to God, this is his answer. "I don't know. I'm not hungry right now." !!! 'Scuse me? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? When you do get hungry, what do you think you might want to eat? "I don't know."
On the other hand, if I just make up the menu and he decides he isn't in the mood for whatever I've chosen to make, he'll pick at it and the leftovers will sit in the refrigerator till I throw them out! And the other day, he asked for chili, I made it and then he had the nerve to not eat it for 3 days, at which point and time, I put it into the freezer. He's getting it tonight for dinner.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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hmmm, meal planning. I need to discuss this with Steve. You see, he looks in the pantry at all these odds and ends and some how sees a "meal-tm" with all the fixings. I look in the pantry and see odds and ends. I'm not the greatest at cooking, while he is an amazing cook, but I don't mind cooking occasionally to give him a break if I know what to cook. When I tell him I'm willing to cook but have no idea what, it usually ends up with him coming in and taking over because I've done something wrong or don't know what to do next so I have to ask him.
He likes being creative too, but I think if we had a meal schedule planned out then I could fix "X" on a particular night to give him a break and he would be ok with it. Otherwise we end up with macNcheese any time I cook or end up going out which does get expensive. I love macNcheese and could easily eat every day but he he doesn't like it as much.
We tend to buy in bulk at Sam's and Costco, so we don't have huge food bills, but quite possibly doing some basic meal planning would lower the costs as well.
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Meal plans are okay, but it is better to just have a pantry plan and some basic themes to work on.
I spent most of my youth away from home working in restaurants and between writing gigs took journeyman chef's duties at restaurants while their main cooks were on vacation or they hunted for new ones. It's not a bad life and it does teach you to work on your feet.
Here's what I do, rather than having a set plan:
I set up my pantry based on these principals:
Balanced meals require: a protein (meat), a green vegetable, a starch and one random fruit/vegetable.
A pasta dinner, for example, would have ground beef or sausage (protein) in marinara sauce (random vegetables) over some odd shaped pasta (starch) with a small salad of greens served while the pasta boils. Tah dah. Quick and straight forward.
Herbed, grilled porkchops with lima beans, stove-top stuffing and carrots boiled in tonic water. Boom. Easy.
What I always make sure is in the cupboard: (forgive the list)
2 cans of tomato sauce 2 cans of tomato paste 2 cans of crushed tomatos 1 big can of tuna (for casseroles) 1 can of salmon (for quicky salmon cakes) 4-5 cans of green beans, limas, corn, etc... 1 sack of self-rising flour 1 sack of all-purpose flour 1 sack of sugar 1 sack of white cornmeal 2 cans of cream of mushroom soup 1 can of cream of celery 1 can of cream of chicken 4-5 cans of variety soups 4 cans of pinto beans 1 box of Bisquick (pancakes, dumplings, etc...) 1 can of black olives selection of dried herbs and spices (a little too extensive at times.. I need a filing cabinet for them) Fresh black peppercorns and a pepper mill Kosher salt Peanut Butter 3 random boxes of instant pudding Dried beans galore (Anasazis are great) 1 lb bag of rice Extra virgin olive oil
I also keep in the kitchen: 1 5 lb bag of red skin potatoes a string of garlic 1 3 lb bag of onions (Vidalia or Spanish) loaf of bread
Freezer/Fridge: 1 pack of frozen meatballs 1 big bag of frozen chicken breasts 1 lb of hamburger lunch meats a wedge of Parmesan Reggiano 1 lb of cheddar cheese real butter, lightly salted a dozen eggs 2% milk, half gallon mustard, ketchup, mayo, salad dressings, hot sauce, soy sauce, Worchestershire sauce and Teriyaki.
Mind you, we don't go through nearly that much each week, but there are a lot of shelf stable items there and a huge variety of things to do with them. Each week just replace what's been used. You can pretty much improvise a meal on a moment's notice there. And the best meals are often the simplest. It's not hard to cook up some pinto beans and a fresh cake of cornbread. It's heart and fulfilling. Spaghetti is always easy and its fun to experiment with getting your own sauce recipe down. And nothing beats good potato soup on a cold winter night except for maybe a quickie pot of chicken and dumplings.
As someone once said, cooking and love should both be approached with wild abandon. Baking, on the other hand, should be approached with a degree in Chemistry.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I think that you've mentioned that saying before. Baking I'm actually not too bad at. I have precise measurements that I do and know exactly when to put them in and how long the cake or cookies will cook for.
Your pantry actually sounds a lot like ours. And therein lies the problem. I don't see "meals" I see "items" like I said before. I can't just visualize a meal together as is clearly easy for you, since you just gave two examples. You think it is easy. It is for Steve too, for me it is extremely difficult!
The one exception is the veggies. I loathe canned veggies. They have to be frozen or I won't eat them. Steve also has the extensive selection of spices. The problem is that I don't know when to put in what. You can't do it precisely like chemistry.
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Hehe, well I understand about the canned veggies, hence a really limited selection of them. Frozen is better, but fresh from the Farmer's Market is best.
Herbs and Spices: Here's an easy way to learn them. Take an herb/spice out of the pantry and sprinkle a little bit on a saltine cracker. Now you know what it will taste like (since most of us know what a saltine tastes like).
Here are some basic rules for using them: Basil goes great with any tomatoes, beef and eggs. Parsley goes with everything but ice cream. Oregano is good for tomatoes, beef and sausage. Dill is best with fish or eggs. Ground Cumin gives a nice smoky taste to stews and chili. Chile Powder is about darned useless. Paprika is best as a garnish or in vegetable soups. Marjoram is like Oregano grew up and got personality. Nutmeg is great in baking, but also fabulous in cream sauces. (And grate it yourself). Cinnamon is best in traditional uses and a small amount can take the acidity out of tomatoes. Savory is good in any slow-cooked foods and great in scrambled eggs. Curry, heck I dunno, but it wreaks havoc on my digestive system. Celery seed is great in soups and tuna salads. Tarragon is good with fish and any dish using Mayo. Mix and match, be creative.
Also, if you do find yourself cooking up a veggie out of a can, you can perk up the taste by adding in a tiny dash of vinegar or lemon juice. Canning and pressure cooking both reduce the acidity in foods, sometimes muting the flavors. This helps put it back.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Banna, you sound like a great candidate for a great recipe collection! There are tons of sites on the web where you can enter what you've got in the cupboard and have it spit out a meal that uses those ingredients. Or you can just browse through categories that contain things that you might want to eat that night, and stop when you see something that sounds good.
I certainly don't understand how some people can just "improvise" an amazing meal, especially with lots of crazy spices. Recipes are my friends!
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Wow, I thought I knew my spices, but I learned several interesting things. Thanks, Sopwith!
quote: Marjoram is like Oregano grew up and got personality.
Marjoram is actually one of my favorite spices, but I never thought of it that way!
I also believe in a well-stocked cupboard, although my staples vary somewhat from yours. I won't eat canned veggies (except baby corn, olives, heart of palm, and artichoke bottoms), just frozen or fresh. I do tend to have several pounds of frozen veggies at any time. And you need way more tuna!!!
Heck, it takes 3-4 cans (the 6 oz ones) to make our favorite ready-in-10-minutes-or-less supper. We call it Tuna 'n Salad. Drain 3-4 cans tuna. Mix with salad dressing of choice (I recommend ranch, creamy Italian, or sweet-and-sour) OR light mayo and some spices. Add two or three bags of prepacked salad. Mix. Serve with bread. (In pitas or wrapped in tortillas is nice; so is a crusty bread on the side.)
The other quick-fixer we love can be tossed in a crockpot in less than five minutes, but needs to cook for a while. It's great for "Uh-oh, need to leave in a few minutes, will be gone all day, what are we eating tonight???" times. Pour 1-2 cups raw rice (I prefer brown or red or wild; do NOT use instant or parboiled -- it'll turn to mush) into crock pot. Add frozen (or fresh) chicken (or turkey) pieces of choice (I like skinless chicken thighs, but any pieces will work), about 1-2 pounds worth. Pour over one jar (12 oz.) salsa OR spicy tomato sauce. Add 2-3 jars worth of water (depending on type of rice and amount). Top with 1-2 c. of frozen corn. Cook 7-8 hrs on low (4-5 hrs on high). We call it Fiesta Chicken, and it's fast (rice, freezer, jar, water, freezer, DONE) to get ready in the morning.
Oh, and since I rarely measure anything when I cook, all measurements are my best guess -- but a bit more or less should be fine anyway.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Buy a 2-3 pound chuck roast (look for good marbling)
Sprinkle pot roast with Kosher salt and cracked black pepper. Brown in uncovered pressure cooker with 2 tsp. of olive oil. Make sure to brown all sides and scrape at bottom of pan to free up dark matter stuck to pan (Mayard principal remainders... tons of flavor.)
Dump in on top of roast: 3 small potatoes, halved; a handful of peeled baby carrots; one medium onion, peeled and halved; 2 cloves of garlic; five or six dashes of Worchestershire sauce; 2 bay leaves; a sprinkle of parsley; a dash of savory; 1 cup of tap water; 1/2 cup of Port wine (Coca-Cola may be substituted... trust me, it's great). Cover and set up pressure cooking rig. Bring heat up to Medium High until pressure relief begins to jiggle. Cut back heat to the warm side of medium (pressure relief should jiggle on its own 2-3 times a minute) and set timer for 23 minutes.
While that works its magic. Preheat oven and prepare a pan of biscuits. Whop a can of them if ya must, but if not, get a bag of self-rising flour (King Arthur is great) and follow the directions. Put biscuits in oven with time enough to allow pot roast to finish five minutes ahead of the bread.
Quickly cool down pressure cooker when timer goes off (put cooker under running cold water until it whoooshes) and then remove pressure rig and lid.
Place pot roast on carving board and cover with small sheet of tin foil. Let the beef rest for a few minutes as you prepare gravy. Place vegetables in separate bowl and leave liquid in the cooker.
Return cooker to the stove and crank the heat back to medium high. Stir liquid around a bit and deglaze bottom of cooker by scraping at anything that sticks. Take 2 tsps of cornstarch and mix into a small glass of cold water. When liquid in pot begins to boil, dump in the cornstarch slurry. Stir like mad for a moment and let it come back to a boil. Immediately remove from heat.
Pull the biscuits out, cut the pot roast (which will be tender enough to fall apart) and prepare each plate with slices of beef highlighted with gravy, a few of the veggies and a nice hot biscuit.
One hour is tops on this.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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During our first year of marriage, Andrew and I had to deal with fertility treatments, my mother's brain tumor, 3 job changes, moving from Queens to Richmond, and losing the baby we had gone through so much to conceive. Household chores were the last thing on our minds.
Plus, we had already worked it out. We lived together for 5 months before we got married. I graduated from college in May and the wedding was November 5th. It made no sense to try to find housing for 5 months in New York City and then have to move again. However, I would not have lived with him if we hadn't been engaged and if we hadn't been living in NYC.
Andrew is a slob and I am a neat freak. This actually works out well for us, because I like things done a certain way and I never believe that anyone else can do them properly. I do all the cooking, washing, and cleaning, except for floors, windows, and garbage. I have kittens if Andrew hangs up one of his shirts himself because he invariably hangs it so that it's falling off the hanger, facing the wrong way, and in the wrong section. I don't understand why my brilliant husband cannot figure out his closet system. Shirts face left and are grouped together by type and color (within the type grouping, of course). I can forgive the color thing - he's color-blind (literally), but why would someone hang a dress shirt facing right among the polo shirts? Why?
It's not that I'm compulsive, it's just that I can't sleep unless the house is perfectly clean. Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Mrs. M., please don’t take this personally, but you are never invited to my house. I mean never. Well, maybe if I have two years notice and can get in a team of professional cleaners, but other than that, no way.
::sneaks off to hang up the jacket she tossed on the hall floor when she walked through the door::
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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You're right-handed, aren't you Mrs. M? My mother was like that. And, personally, I have no problem with it, and am a bit like that also. However, I'm left-handed. It always annoyed me to no end that she expected me to hang clothes up her way in my closet. By the same token, I don't spaz out if my husband or son, by some miracle, hang up one of their own shirts, but do it backward. (I just fix it and move on. )
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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*thinks* This is off-topic, but we're just chatting now anyway.
My personal policy is Keep Public Places clean. The living room always needs to be clean and ordered, and the kitchen needs to be clean and ordered at least once every 48 hours. This way, the mess doesn't annoy other people, and there is always a clean place to go.
I'm the same way with cooking - my first step in any real cooking is to clean the kitchen. Same with studying - if I studied at home, I cleaned the apartment first.
The room that gets ordered frantically before guests arrive is my bathroom - its just too easy to leave hair clips and lotions and matches and knives and curling irons on the counter to pick that up every day. Any future bathroom over which I have planning ability MUST have a wall of cabinets in which to stow the Stuff.
My bedroom, however, is different. I need one place to not worry about things, to drop my clothes, to pile to-be-filed papers, and to take reminders and copies of my favorite poetry on the wall. That's my bedroom. I don't think that will change. Usually, you can't see the floor in there. No, no one ever sees it, and when guests come over, all doors remain firmly closed.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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You do realize that if you get married, you'll be sharing the bedroom, right? And can you really be romantic in all that mess?
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Kat, I absolutely agree! (Now you know why I was a bit uncomfortable when you wanted to use my puter . . . )
[Edit: ok, the floor is usually visible, and I do make the bed. *looks around* Actually at the moment, my room is unusally neat. Huh, how did that happen? ]
quote:You do realize that if you get married, you'll be sharing the bedroom, right? And can you really be romantic in all that mess?
I've thought about that, and I think I have it figured out.
The bedroom would then turn into a public place, and so I'd feel a need to keep it clean. What I need, then, is a big walk in closet with a chair in it that is just mine. I'll keep the mess to this place. For some, it would be an indulgence. For me, a place that I can set things down without worrying about it is an absolute necessity. I don't have a ton of clothes, so it does get cleaned periodically, just so I can do laundry and have something to wear.
This came from an amusing conversation recently - we were talking about roommates and various conflicts, and I mentioned my Public Places policy. He's been remodeling his house (himself), and he's the one who came up with the Private Walk-In Closet solution. I thought it sounded great.
Added: I just made some really wierd errors, and I think it is because I wasn't writing a sentence, I was transcribing the conversation in my head.
Rivka: That totally makes sense. I apologize for asking - I should have thought of that.
I got to beach easily, by the way. Watched the sun go down, ran through the surf, and wrote Temporary Poetry, racing the waves to finish writing before they washed it away. That was great.
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Mrs. M, I have a spotless apartment aside from something called the "Closet of Death." I've thrown all my extra crap into this extra walk in closet (I have two) and shut the door. If I open it, stuff falls out to kill me, hence "of Death."
Oddly, I used to be an incredibly messy kid...and adolescent...and young adult. *wonders what happened*
Kat, I have to keep my bedroom as spotless for two reasons. 1) the door to my bedroom has glass panels *shrug* and 2) I can't study or write if my room is a mess. I need order for that. No idea why.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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Kat, actually, it had occurred to me that someone might ask to use the puter, so I had planned to make that possible. Ran out of time, tho . . . It wasn't awful, but neither was it Suitable for Display. See, if I'd known you had a similar policy to mine, I would have been fine. I let people in there who do the same thing; it's the one whose houses are eternally immaculate that I won't allow in.
As for you thinking of it . . . I have learned the hard way not to expect people to read my mind. So how could you know?
I'm glad you made it to the beach and had a great time -- I meant to ask, but forgot by the time you came back to HR.
I used to have a walk-in closet. Kudos if you can manage to keep the clutter in there! Y'know, I need to start following my FlyLady emails regularly again.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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See, my extremely intelligent husband is forever hanging up his clothes. Why can't he understand that I'd like to have it in a nice, rumpled pile in the corner? It's like we're speaking different languages. So, after he hangs his clothes up, I'll sigh indulgently, take them off the hanger and toss it back among the other clothes. Sometimes I'll sorta dance on the pile just to make a point, but he never seems to get it.
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My husband and I are still basically newlyweds (less than three years) and we have a couple of recurrent problems. The good thing is that we are lucky enough to realize that it's all pretty much misunderstandings, which many married couples NEVER figure out. I kills me that when we are "arguing" he'll just roll over and go to sleep without finishing a thought, while I get to stay up all night and wonder why he's so mad at me. Then, the next morning he'll be totally loving and basically agree with me, at least on the points which he was being unreasonable before. Turns out he wasn't mad, just trying to see things from my point of view, which he feels unable to do while he's tired. I thought his silence meant anger, but it meant "thinking".
Another is related to what Geoff said. When things are good, he relaxes while I clean, which seems very unfair. Then when things are very tense, he starts cleaning madly, when all I want to do is relax and "figure things out". It's so frustrating! He just likes to "do things" to relieve tension. I like to veg to relieve tension.
Isn't it awesome that men and women really are different?
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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. IMO, the roles that work are the ones you agree on, which may or may not specifically be the ones that your particular culture or religion proscribe.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Much, much better.
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That totally makes sense. I apologize for asking - I should have thought of that. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
