posted
And you're absolutely right about the Yankees the last two years . . . they haven't gone out and won it, because they've expected it to be handed to them, and it wasn't. I would say that the Diamondbacks wanted it more. I'm not ignoring this. I would say the Yankees want it more now than they did two years ago, or last year, because they see that a big payroll doesn't guarantee anything, and because they know they are nearing the end of their run--Giambi only added a year or two.
And of course, I'm not saying that wanting it is all it takes. But it's pretty much granted that the Yankees and Red Sox both had heaps of talent, and were about equally good.
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Why are the Yankees boring? Because they don't produce a lot of offense this year? I can buy that. Marlins games are way more exciting.
What else, though (besides the fact that they win a lot) would lead you to feel that way?
When you say boring, are you referring to the way they play right now, this year? Or are you referring to long-term characteristics? Would you consider the Marlins boring? Because I would characterize their play as very thrilling. Would you say they are boring because they don't have the long and storied history? Whereas the Yankees are boring because they have too much long and storied history?
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posted
Unless you're a Marlins fan its hard to notice it but Jack McKeon is the dumbest manager on the face of the earth. All these little stupid moves that make no sense and none of them turn out well. Its incredibly frustrating. What's even more frustrating is that the Marlins are the best team in the league because of him. It just bogles the mind. Oh well, as long as he keeps on winning games I'll have to put up with him.
posted
Actual moves, his timing makes no sense. For example he take Dontrell Willis out in the first game in the last series against the Phillies after Willis starts dominating. His timing in pitching or walking Bonds generally made no sense. There are just a thousand little things that he does and yet McKeon. How is he so good and so bad at once?
posted
But see, you can apply that rationale however you want, Ic. You can just claim every winning team always wanted it more, and no one can disagree, on face value, because, well, they won. But it is rare that you see two teams so differently motivated as to be able to tell the difference by their play (although it occassionally happens, but not in any team championship game/series that I have seen).
How do you know that the Red SOx didn't want it MORE, but as a result, they tightened up, due to the extra desire to win?
I still believe that "wanting it more" almost never happens at the professional level, and even less frequently at the championship level, at least to the point that it affects the actual game.
It's just a way to be a sore winner without looking like it: "Not only did our team win, but your team just cared less, and so it was inevitable that our team won."
I mean, unless you can prove that certain actions by either team last night were better explained by "lack of will" as opposed to fatigue, strategic mistake, or bad luck, your claim is meaningless.
I mean, I think anyone watching this series could see that both teams wanted this more than anything.
posted
I think teams like the Red Sox and Cubs are so caught up in curses that they convince themselves they have one and play like it.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Good points. I retract my statements about the Sox and the Cubs. Maybe they just choked.
And I apologize for being a sore winner. Some.
However, I think the statement does have some applicability. I often see teams not play to their full potential, and not playing like they want it enough. I see teams that appear to be unmotivated. It often happens to the terribly successful teams . . . they start to become blasé about their success. I have seen this with the Yankees recently, and with the Hurricanes as well. The Hurricanes are also, quite simply, not as good a team as they have been recently, but almost losing to West Virginia was a sign to me that they were unmotivated. West Virginia, on the other hand, was clearly very motivated. Beating UM meant more to them than beating UWV meant to the 'Canes. Some teams either become accustomed to success, or they despair of achieving it, and I think sometimes you can make the judgment that the drive is missing.
The Marlins, on the other hand, demonstrate an unwillingness to give up. Some teams do seem to give up under much less hardship.
And I don't think the statement can be applied to all teams that win. Some teams that win simply have an overwhelming amount of talent. I don't see most of the Yankees wins of the 90s as being attributable to wanting it more, but to their collected talent. That's one reason I'm finding this playoff run so exciting. The talent is aging, but they're rediscovering the drive they had when this run began. For the first time, they don't feel like they'll probably be back next year. The '85 Chicago Bears didn't necessarily want it more than the Patriots. They were more talented. The '01 Patriots, on the other hand, were less talented than the Rams. Did they win because they wanted it more, or because their coach outcouched the Rams? A little of both, maybe.
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posted
I don't think the UM-baseball playoffs is an applicable analogy. UM has ten harder games on their schedule than West Virginia. You just can't be motivated by such a game. There's no reason on the other hand that all eight baseball playoff teams shouldn't be motivated to their fullest.
Its also possible that the worse team will win just because upsets happen. One team plays better for no other reason than the game was played on a Sunday as opposed to a Saturday.
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posted
PS- Elizabeth, I offer my condolences to your 6-year-old; I welcome him into Red Sox Nation,on this, his "first communion."
Thank you, Bok! He is certainly one of the group now. (did I say he was 6? Eeek, he would kill me. He is 7)
If anyone would like to join, my husband is starting a "Curse Fan Club." Members of the club want the Curse to continue to keep things intresting for eternity. Basically, you just root to "almost win." It adds years to the life of your heart.
[ October 17, 2003, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
I grew up a Yanks fan, and married into the Red Sox world. Over the years, I was worn down by the abundance of pure hope and pure despair.
I think the Yankees fans are like the Sox fans in this. They have just not had the despair to test their hope on. I truly believe, though, that if the Yanks sucked wind at the end of important series' as many times as the Sox have, the fans would still be as rabid.
It makes me want to formally interview my grandmother, who was a Yanks fan before the city had skyscrapers. She watched the buildings being built, and she watched two of them come down.
I know I am getting off topic now, but is there any age group in history that has lived through such monumental changes as the WW2 generation?
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quote:Truth is, Rivera is one of the few athletes you can hear praising the Lord for every save and believe in his sincerity. He has talked of becoming a minister. He has built a church in his native Panama.
When Rivera broke down on the mound as his teammates mobbed Aaron Boone at the plate, he wasn't engaging in any self-hug for the cameras. Rivera was surrendering to the emotions inspired by his faith, collapsing before Lee Mazzilli and Willie Randolph could pull him to his feet.
"It was the Lord," Rivera said of his inspiration. "The curse, I don't know about that stuff.....I don't believe in ghosts. I believe in the Lord.
"I had a big conversation with the man and he came through. That's why I was happy and I was thankful....I didn't even think. I just went to the mound and hugged the mound."
Rivera allowed that his conversation with "the man" wasn't a one-way street. He said "the man" told him, "We're going to win this game." No, the closer added, "he's not a Red Sox fan."
posted
My 90 year old Yankee-loving grandmother was told by the director of the assisted living place yesterday(who had just found out she was a Yanks fan) that she was raising her rent 25 percent. Then, the food services director said she could expect poison in her breakfast. She has had various other threats from octogenarians and nonogenarians alike, but she is still sticking to her guns.
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posted
Ha ha. True, Bok. I guess that means she is just sticking to her GUMS, then.(agist joke at the expense of my grandmother, who still has all her teeth)
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Talk about sore losers. Marlins fans would just ignore the World Series, we wouldn't turn it off.
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At least we made it this far unlike some unnamed team who will never win a World Series if they exist for another 300 years.
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posted
we don't really want to won the World Series, Newfound. It is much more spectacular to lose in such a heroic way. Kind of like the Spartans at the Battle of Thermopylae. The Persians won, but the Spartans stay in the heart.
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![[The Wave]](graemlins/thewave.gif)
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McKeon. How is he so good and so bad at once? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Marlins fans would just ignore the World Series, we wouldn't turn it off.
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I think Dontrelle would look quite nice in a Red Sox uniform next year ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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