posted
Yeah, the more I read this the more any further contact with him however indirect gives me bad vibes. I believe in "vibes" like I believe in karma. I just feel very uneasy with you talking to him again at all, though I guess some short communication will be necessary.
posted
I disagree with AJ and CT's recent posts. If you offer the month rent as take-or-leave-it, a final deal-closer, it's not "more negotiation." Just make it clear that this will be the final transaction. There are plenty of ways to deliver money with little or no contact.
I would save the lawyer as a final option. If he does not want to accept your 1 month offer, you could even withdraw the offer and have him deal with your lawyer. I bet he'll shut up fast and take the offer if it's presented like that--"Either take the one month I'm offering or deal with my lawyer and probably get nothing, it's your choice." But stay polite, maybe not quite that blunt.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Morbo, I've just been the nice-girl dealing-with-the-stalkery-guy a few times, and I'm more than willing to admit that I'm biased.
My experience, though, is that once I tried to say anything, it was "but, but .." and "you see .." and "you're not being fair." And then I'd try to explain why it was fair, and then he'd get more sputtery and have to tell me how it made him feel, and what problems it was going to cause him, and then he'd tell me that I'd get what I deserved, and ... ugh. And he would never have dealt with another guy like that -- wouldn't even have occurred to him to try. But some guys seem to believe that women owe them something, be it attention, or nurturing, or what have you.
We don't.
Talk to my lawyer. (My equivalent of "talk to the hand," only this hand can sue your sweet patootie for harassment.)
I guess it's a matter of perspective. I'm interested in how this guy responds to kat.
I'm also all about the strong, healthy, 50-foot-tall katharina today.
posted
Call me crazy, but isn't hiring a lawyer going to cost more than just paying the two months rent he wants? Now that the lease has been signed, explain to me why a lawyer is needed?
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Stormie, she doesn't have to hire a lawyer. She uses one she has access to already, or I could've called in a friend who would love to deal with it for her. (My lawyer friends are mostly women who've had run-ins with stalkery guys before, and they'd do it pro bono, with pleasure.)
The lawyer is so she never has to deal with him again. She doesn't need to take messages from him, explain anything to him, nothing. Nada. If he is creepy, what he wants more than the money is to exercise control over her. This way, pushing the point becomes unsatisfying to him, and she stays protected.
You probably have to have dealt with creepy vibes from somebody to understand how important that peace of mind may be.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Very true, CT. I don't have the female perspective and I have basically ignored the creepy/stalker aspects of this mess to focus on the business. If some guy made a deal like this with me and then got all whiny about it and wanted to talk for 2 freakin' hours about it, I'd probably laugh at him. Maybe offer 1/2 month to shut him up. If he didn't like that offer, I would string him along till I moved in then invite him to sue, as he has no legal right to anything that wasn't discussed before the deal was finalised. Kat even quoted him as saying " I guess we should have discussed it earlier." Damn straight he should have brought it up earlier--Kat has already signed a lease and is fairly well commited to moving, from what I can tell.
But the stalker aspects are there. That's why I reccomend staying polite and business-like yet firm. And save the lawyer as an ace-in-the-hole.
Storm, Kat can get a lawyer cheap/free through her job.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Come to think of it, katharina, make sure you keep excellent documentation. You have some notes here, but also take notes of what was said -- specifically -- during the next phone conversation.
quote: Call me crazy, but isn't hiring a lawyer going to cost more than just paying the two months rent he wants?
Storm, that is where you might be wrong. Originally, if you recall, he just wanted someone to take over his lease. Now he wants two months rent. When she gives into him, what has she taught him? That eventually, she'll give in. So, when he starts calling her and telling her he's going to be in town for a gig. . . Yeah, I can take that story all the way to an episode of CSI, easy.
Stopping him in his tracks now, even if it costs more than the two months rent would be worth it, if it she doesn't end up dead at the end. You just aren't thinking like a stalker.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote: And make sure you keep a receipt/cancelled check for any payment you give to him.
I still agree with the idea of going through the leasing company. Don't give him the information on your check.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
This entire experience has driven home what complete baloney it is to deal with people who are used to getting their way all the time, and who expect everyone else to live in the world they created.
I dated an actor/director once rather, well, not seriously, but for a long time. This is bringing back flashbacks. I forgot how offended they get if someone doesn't think everything they do is wonderful. Literally, it's like it's a personal offense. "You disagreed with me.", he said indignantly. Yes, you child. I still do.
quote:Guys have a tendency to go from, "Hey, baby, how you doin'?" to "You stupid, psycho bitch" in about 30 seconds.
posted
That's a very interesting phenomenon, the switch from "would you please be my friend" to "you ****ing retard bitch". I just experienced it for the very first time quite recently. It's quite irrational. It seems to be the reaction of someone who is used to bullying people when someone they thought they could bully doesn't allow it.
I think it's best handled exactly as CT says, with lawyers. I would add that in the odd case where those don't work, it's nice to keep a shotgun at home and be willing and able to use it.
The essence of being a nice girl involves understanding when a nice girl had best become a nice girl with a shotgun.
[ November 20, 2003, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
This situation is making me so nervous I can hardly stand to read this thread. Two hours on the phone with this guy?
*warning* *warning* *warning* go the alarms in my head...
I would seriously break the deal at this point. This guy knows where you'll be living soon, is actually quite familiar and comfortable with the place and your neighbors. The relationship that's developed is really scary. This is not a time for "nice girl". This was never a time for "nice girl", it's a business deal and should have/should be treated as such.
Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Ewww.... I had a "business" deal with a guy once. After that, he started calling me every couple of days to talk about more work. About the third time, I realized he was breathing way too heavily. I'd have told him to go **** himself, but I think he was doing that already. I told him to find someone else to talk to and never to contact me again. <shudder>
Kat, please be very careful. The deal was done when you signed the lease. Don't give him ANYTHING else! Tell him not to ever call again.
posted
Okay. I talked to the guy one last time, and while he didn't actually call me that, he said "How do I know you won't be a [blank]?" when I said I would pay him one month's rent, but I wanted him off the lease that day.
He'd said he'd send in the paperwork to take his name off the lease last Monday. Now he'll be busy with his band for the rest of the week and will maybe find time next week to send it in. I don't think so.
I called the apartment place, laid it out, and expressed my concerns. They agreed it is creepy, talked to corporate office, and took his phone number to get him to sign the papers today. They've called me three times this morning for various bits of information, so they are definitely concerned.
Basically, he's willing to blow this all because he's offended that I am not comfortable with him having a key to my apartment, despite the comment that he still has it and could come up.
"Of course I'm not going to do that." "Then don't say it."
What kind of idiot mentions the possibility of invading someone's privacy and then gets offended when she is not convinced he's a nice guy?
Anyway, I'm not living there, and it should be taken care of today. Either he or I will be off. CT hooked me up with some resources in case that doesn't work out. She's simply wonderful.
-----
I've thought about it. The one month's rent thing. I agree with Zal that I don't owe him anything, and I'm not doing it to be nice to him. Mostly it's because... I thought about it and decided that is what would be fair at the beginning, and I feel comfortable sticking to that.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I don't like the month of rent thing. It's not fair. It wasn't part of the deal. To me, it screams "I'm okay with you taking advantage of me! Have some money!".
You've got to look out for yourself before you worry about this loser's feelings. Seriously. That seems to have gotten lost somewhere in all these long phone calls.
Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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I think you probably got what katharina said, but she is doing less for the guy than for her own sake. Remember at the beginning of this thread, she felt like she might be taking advantage of the guy's urgent need to get out of that apartment.
So whether or not it is legally okay for her to keep the money, or concidered ethical by others, and whether or not the guy doesn't deserve to 'split the windfall' because of his creepy jerkiness, what is important to her, in the long run, is how she sticks to her own standard of morals and ethics.
Posts: 3495 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
I understand what you're saying, but it feels to me like showing weakness in this already sketchy situation.
I would be more inclined to make sure that this guy who knows where I sleep feels like I'm not someone you can mess with, that I'm not going to hand over some cash just because I'm a nice girl and don't want to hurt his feelings. Will I let him drop in when he's in town for the same reasons? What message is he getting, here?
For me, it's a matter of personal and physical safety, and with that, morals come second.
Again, though, I get your POV. I just really, really don't like this situation.
Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Kat, I assume that you're going to have the locks changed, right? Just turning in his key isn't good enough--it's pretty easy to get a key copied before turning it in.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
You know I understand both Ayelar's and Kat's points. I honestly don't know which way I would fall. I would have to be in the situation before I could make a decision.
I definitely think that if he is un-cooperative today you should start cutting back on the amount you give him. In fact I might have said that to begin with. He already indirectly called you a --- but the fact is the ball lies squarely in his court. If he is too "busy with his band" to do the small amount of paperwork necessary to get the money, he doesn't deserve it.
You made the offer to be fair, and comply with your own conscience. But if he isn't even willing to do a bit of work, he doesn't deserve the money.
The saddest thing was something you said back on the last page. "you hoped he was wiser after this" Unfortunately he appears to have a chronically selfish perspective on life and there isn't any room in his brain for the learning of wisdom.
posted
Yes. As soon as he turns in his key and he is off the lease, they are changing the locks.
Amka has it right - I just feel better this way. *grin* ALR, believe me, I appreciate the desire to not back down. I wouldn't say this is the right thing for everyone.
For me, it actually takes more strength to NOT tell him to go to hell.
*considers* I think it comes from not having anything to prove. I don't want to deal with him, I'm not talking to him again, and the conversation's over, but I don't need to... prove how tough I am. I know how tough/squishy I am, and I'd rather stick to what I thought was fair than make sure this random stranger knows it as well.
But yeah, if today things are not all cleared up, the amount gets less every day.
posted
I guess a lot of this stems from growing up under the hyper-protective thumb of my ultra-paranoid mother. For her, almost any man who a) knows where you live and that you live alone, b) considers you weak, and c) isn't a kind and wonderful human being is a major threat. I wouldn't go that far.
However, seeing that he fails the above test AND has expressed interest in "dropping in" AND is having loooong phone conversations with you and feels entitled to more long phone conversations AND has expressed much more familiarity with you than he should given the nature of the relationship.... that's enough to have me concerned. Almost certainly needlessly concerned. But still, there's this alarm going off in my head, and I don't like it. Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
I'm not going there until the locks are changed. He's not going to get a chance to hurt me.
And, judging from our conversations, I really don't think he would. I'm not running the risk, but it sounds like he's a selfish git, but not immediately dangerous.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
My rational side is sure you're right, and thinks I'm silly for worrying.
I have had some bad experiences with ex-residents and ex-boyfriends "dropping by" dead-drunk at 2am, though, so I'm probably just projecting my past traumas onto your situation. Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
This sounds like a worrysome situation, Kat. I'm sorry you're going through it.
It does look like things are moving along to get him out of your life, however, and that's the way it should be. Get this creep-o off the path of your life for good.
I'm glad that the apartment complex is being very cooperative with you.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
kat, how did this work out? Are you moved? I'm sure you are quite busy but let us know what is going on. Just anxious to hear from you. <<<<hugs>>>>
Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I am also glad it worked out. Although one months rent is more than I would have given the guy, if it buys you peace of mind it's cheap at the price. Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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The last time I talked to him, he was more concerned with everyone being comfortable. See, he didn't actually need the money, and was willing to write off a taker if he wasn't feeling warm and fuzzy about it.
Apparently I "hurt his feelings" when I pointed out that since I was on the lease, I didn't have to pay him squat. He kept saying how there wouldn't be any confusion if we could just meet in person, and if I wasn't comfortable with the situation (i.e. him having a key to my apartment for a bit) then let's call the whole thing off.
We did agree to one month of rent. He whined. Negotiations broke down at the "turn over your key" request. Seriously, what was he thinking? Why on EARTH would that be okay? He was offended that I didn't feel safe with him having a key. What the crud?
It worked out when I called the leasing company to get out of what I'd signed. They played mediator, and that day I went, signed things, they changed the locks, and guy does all future dealings with them. What I don't understand is why that wasn't the original scenario.
So, yes, all moved in. My home teachers did the moving, and got very tired from carrying to couch up two flights of stairs (third floor).
EG: *excercising restraint*
Noemon: I have some stuff, but nothing worth hocking. I mean, I have lots of framed art on the walls, a couple of couches, nice clothes, and fifteen boxes of books I need to unpack, but I'm notoriously picky about spending money on stuff I then need to haul around, so I own no electronic equipment outside my fifteen-year-old stereo. I have a computer that doesn't work; if someone stole it, at least then I wouldn't have to figure out what to do with it. *thinks* Oh, and Mom's jewelry. Oh yeah, that I should hide. I need a place to play movies now; maybe I'll aquire some stuff.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
That sounds like a decent amount of stuff, but like you said, not much of it sounds like the kind of thing that'd fetch much down at the local pawn shop.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Yay on being all moved in! That must feel great.
Katie, are you saying that you bothered to move a non-functional computer to your new apartment? Um, why, exactly?
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Katie, are you saying that you bothered to move a non-functional computer to your new apartment? Um, why, exactly?
Maybe she needs to recover data from the hard drive, and just moved the whole thing rather than taking the time to pull out the drive?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
That would make sense. I realized she also may have simply needed to get it OUT of her old place. Simplest to have it go with everything else.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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