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Author Topic: Anyone talked to Black Fox today?
ana kata
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I heard a story on NPR this morning about someone else from the 101st being killed in Mosul. I thought it was today, but this is the only news story I could find, and it seemed to have happened Monday unless there's been another one very similar. The details match what I heard, that it was small arms fire at a soldier guarding a gas station.

Does anyone have more information? I am googling now for what else I can find, plus I just remembered I can check the NPR site and hear the story again.

When is the last time we've heard from Paul? I think it's been a couple of days since I've seen him online. Anyone else have a more recent sighting?

Oh, bad news! It happened again. Two more today, in the same way.

[ December 10, 2003, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: ana kata ]

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Desu
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Well it is a war...
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Lalo
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You ass.
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slacker
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< -- ludosti here

I talked briefly to Paul today. He mentioned the casulties when I talked to him, but he said he's doing pretty well.

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ana kata
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Oh, thanks, ludosti! Did he say if they were people he knew well?
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ludosti
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We didn't talk much about it. It didn't seem to me that they were guys they knew well (he referred to them as "a couple of guys"), but I could be wrong.
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ana kata
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Here is another report with more information.
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newfoundlogic
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Lalo, it is a war. Is it unfortunate that our soldiers must die in it? Yes, its more than unfortunate, its horrible but if you act suprised and shocked on the basis that someone or some people died than you're being unrealistic.
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mackillian
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But there's no need to made snide comments when something is asking about another person's safety, especially when it's someone they know.

Sheesh. Reality is one thing and tact is another. Combining the two makes for some pretty good civility.

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Lalo
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Surprised and shocked at death? No. I'm angry that Desu would dismiss the deaths of soldiers because, after all, we put them out there to take bullets in the first place.

It's not just Black Fox out in Iraq. It's brothers and fathers, and often sisters and mothers. I have someone desperately dear to me out there right now, and I don't know what I'd do if he were to die.

Though I'm fairly certain I wouldn't brush it off as just another aspect of war. And if anyone tried to do that within arm's reach of me, I'd probably turn violent.

I stand by my statement. What an ass.

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mackillian
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Obviously, I completely agree.
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saxon75
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Hear, hear.
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newfoundlogic
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I think you're going overboard. I don't think its being brushed off, I think its being accepted as a fact of war.
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mackillian
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It's the manner in which it was "accepted" that we're objecting to. Or, at least that's what I'm objecting to.
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Desu
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Don't kid yourself Lalo, you love having someone like me around so you can pretend to be tough and moral.
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Jeni
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Even if it is just a fact of war, there is a time to say so. I don't think that was it.
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saxon75
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quote:
Don't kid yourself Lalo, you love having someone like me around so you can pretend to be tough and moral.
So what's your reason for acting like an insensitive ass?
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Lalo
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Acceptance of casualties and dismissal of deaths are two very different things. Desu's implication was undeniably that "well[,] it is a war," and soldiers will die, so we should get over it.

Expecting people's deaths is natural, be it in war or not. If your mother were to die tomorrow, would you rest easy with my dismissal of her death? "Well, she was old." These soldiers deserve our respect and our sympathy, and soldiers currently living deserve our attention and re-questioning of the reasoning that puts them in harm's way in the first place. We need to learn from these soldiers' deaths and do everything we can to prevent further death -- not dismiss the deaths of these men and women because the assholes who sent them to death in the first place (nor the assholes who supported the assholes who created this war) are comfortable with their ended lives.

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T_Smith
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Desu, though I don't agree with Eddies methods, I agree with him to a certain extent. You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't think you put thought into how some people feel about it.

And Eddie, come on, do you really need to say "You're an ass" without an explanation of why you feel that way? What do you expect out of that?

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ana kata
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It's a totally different thing, isn't it, when you have someone who is there? It's much more to us than just a war. It's the lives of our friends and family. I think most people understand that and don't brush it off like it's nothing, Desu and nfl, at least not in front of people who obviously have more at stake.

We as a country decide we must do things that put people's lives in danger, and then we send soldiers over there to actually do those things for us so that we don't have to. They go, and many of them die, and many more are seriously wounded and live with the consequences for their whole lives. The least we can do, I think, is to respect and honor them for what they do, and not just pass it over like it's nothing. Like their great risk and sacrifice and suffering are nothing.

I too was angered by Desu's comment, though I assume it comes from ignorance and not from any malice. I'm very proud of Paul for what he's doing and I pray for his safe return. I feel sad for those who have died, and for their families and friends.

[ December 10, 2003, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: ana kata ]

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mackillian
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I think this is the first time I've ever agreed with Eddie so completely.
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MyrddinFyre
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I'm glad he's ok.
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ana kata
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myr: yeah, me too.
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Tresopax
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You guys are going to go crazy if you worry this much about it being Paul every time someone gets killed in Iraq.
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ana kata
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Tres, you have an alternative? The men killed were soldiers of the 101st Airborne, in the town where he is stationed. That's all the news said. Of course it's going to be reassuring to hear that someone has spoken to him since this happened. If someone who mattered to you were over there, I hope you would be concerned about them too, and not just think, "oh well, either they live or they die, no big deal."

If it were you over there in the line of fire, would you want everyone back home never to think about you and to forgot all about what you were doing? Hey, when I'm there, if the news reports that an American engineer has been killed in the town where I am working, I expect my good friends will at least care enough to check and see if it was me.

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Frisco
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I don't think Tres was trying to be as insensitive as you're making him out to be.

There are at least 20,000 soldiers in the 101st, the odds are heavily in favor of one dying not being Paul.

But I guess there are two types of people...the "It could never happen to me" people, and the "It's never happened to me. I'm due." people.

I say, keep worrying, but don't let worries get you down or drive you nuts.

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ana kata
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Right, Frisco, but how many of them are in Mosul? I don't picture a huge metropolis, and we all know our troops are spread pretty thin over there. Last I heard, he was not doing jobs like guarding gas stations, but soldiers can be ordered to do anything at any time, and so I don't feel one can necessarily count on his job assignment being permanent.

Anyway, what am I doing defending my right to worry about my friend? Of course I worry about him!

Ludosti, thank you for letting me know you talked to him. Thanks to everyone else for your concern and kindness.

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TomDavidson
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Anne Kate, Mosul has a population of over 1.5 million people; it IS in fact a metropolis. [Smile]
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amira tharani
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Spoke to Paul last night. He says he's having bad dreams but he's okay. I hope and pray that he comes home safe and that as few people as possible, soldiers and Iraqis, have to die before peace and stability are brought back to the country.
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ana kata
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Why [Wall Bash] why [Wall Bash] why [Wall Bash] are you people arguing with our right to be worried and concerned about whether our friends get killed?

I understand Lalo's reaction perfectly. People, most of them young people with their whole lives in front of them, are over there dying because our country deemed it needful that they be there. Many who aren't dying are suffering terrible injuries. Even those who aren't killed or injured undergo extreme hardships. Yes, it angers me a great deal when the people for whom they are doing this sit in comfort and ease and safety and dismiss it with a wave of their hands. Our comfort and safety was bought with the blood and sacrifice of people like them who were willing to serve. Sometimes I am tempted to think we don't deserve it.

[ December 11, 2003, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: ana kata ]

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Olivet
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My brother was a captain in the National Guard in 1990. I remember how hard it was for all of us, him being activated.

We have no personal control over what's happening there. However we may personally feel about the war, it is wrong to trivialize one person's concern for another, or even the loss of life of someone we don't know. It's just a matter of courtesy.

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Jon Boy
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Anne Kate, I don't think anyone's saying that you have no right to worry. I think they're actually trying to comfort you by pointing out that he's really a needle in a haystack, so the chances of him getting hurt or killed are relatively low.
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MyrddinFyre
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But considering there's still a chance, her worrying *is* justified.
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ana kata
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Is that what y'all were doing? Awww, thanks, then. That was sweet.
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ana kata
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Yeah, Myr, not that there's a chance that I'll stop worrying, but I appreciate the thought, anyway. [Smile]
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MyrddinFyre
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[Smile]
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Pixie
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quote:
I say, keep worrying, but don't let worries get you down or drive you nuts.
Exactly. At the beginning of the war I spent pretty much all of my free time (and some time that probably wasn't quite so free) glued to CNN. All it did was give me headaches from worrying so much but, at the same time, not knowing what was going on was even worse. So, I set up a compromise: Watch just long enough to know what's going on, and then just... well, live. I suppose I realized that the worry was always going to be there no matter what I did so I just tried to go on as normally as possible. Doesn't always work but it's enough to keep me sane unless something happens. Metropolis or not, however, Mosul's where Paul is and, 20,000 in number or not, the 101st is who he's with so that's where my attention gets drawn.
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